The Firing Line Forums

Go Back   The Firing Line Forums > The Hide > The Art of the Rifle: General

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old November 27, 2013, 07:34 PM   #51
4runnerman
Senior Member
 
Join Date: January 16, 2010
Location: Minnsota
Posts: 2,656
Slamfire-- You got it. The part in the middle on the bottom is not on his,but that is what it looks like. It is tapped for a scope also. I have thought about checking out the price,but some how I feel it would be more than I would want to spend on a 22
__________________
NRA Certified RSO
NwCP- Performance Isn't Optional
4runnerman is offline  
Old November 27, 2013, 08:33 PM   #52
darkgael
Senior Member
 
Join Date: February 9, 2006
Location: Homes in Brooklyn, NY and in Pennsylvania.
Posts: 4,214
rifle

Are you sure he was in the Winter Olympics? Was he a cross country skier? A good one? Obviously, I am very curious....Biathlon is one of my favorite sports (to watch). Biathlon was first included in 1960. The .22RF became the standard
in 1978.
That rifle looks more like a position rifle which would be found in the Summer games. Lotsa shooting in the summer. Doesnt look like a gun a skier would carry on his back while racing.
Pete
__________________
"Only hunting and mountain climbing are sports. The rest are just games." - R.Ruark
NRA Life Member
darkgael is offline  
Old November 27, 2013, 09:36 PM   #53
4runnerman
Senior Member
 
Join Date: January 16, 2010
Location: Minnsota
Posts: 2,656
darkgael- Never thought about it, but now that you mention it. Something is fishy here. If it started in 1960, hmmm his Grandfather????.. Not likely, Next question now coming to mind- If it was his Grandfather we could say what year?.
Had to have been 50 years ago plus , I would think, Did they have those rifles like that 50 years ago?. I think I am being taken for a ride here by this guy.
__________________
NRA Certified RSO
NwCP- Performance Isn't Optional
4runnerman is offline  
Old November 28, 2013, 08:43 AM   #54
darkgael
Senior Member
 
Join Date: February 9, 2006
Location: Homes in Brooklyn, NY and in Pennsylvania.
Posts: 4,214
Cf

22s since 1978. Before that, they used centerfire rifles.
You can find a picture of a .22 from that time at www.eberlestock.com.

Pete
__________________
"Only hunting and mountain climbing are sports. The rest are just games." - R.Ruark
NRA Life Member

Last edited by darkgael; November 28, 2013 at 08:58 AM.
darkgael is offline  
Old November 29, 2013, 09:12 PM   #55
Bart B.
Senior Member
 
Join Date: February 15, 2009
Posts: 3,828
Slamfire says to me:
Quote:
You are acting like every other good centerfire shooter to whom I have quoted those numbers. They just can’t believe that a rimfire could shoot that well and certainly not better than their target centerfires.
regarding .38" size consistant groups from a rimfire 22 at 100 yards.

I'll stick to my belief that no rifle shoots that size groups all the time. Group's are interesting. There's the following ways they're referenced:

* "Best group is X inch" which means that's the smallest one shot. Nobody except the shooter knows what all the other were and his agenda may be to think only of that one.

* "Average group is X inch" which means that some of the groups shot were bigger than that; how much is not known.

* "Mean radius of the group (a few to several dozen shots) is X inch" means the group center was calculated as well as the radius of each shot hole from it and the average figured out. Pretty good, but the extreme spread of such methods can still be 3 to 5 times larger than the mean radius.

* "All shots tested into X inch" says what that load did, but is only meaningful if the test is repeated and all shots group within 10% of what happened before. The more shots tested, the better the accuracy that can be counted on all the time is observed. The more shots there are in a test group, the better it is, to me, anyway.

Regarding the many groups shown in the link below (which is an excellent thing to show thanks FALPhil) showing how each fired group's sizes are different than the average. Note that most smallbore prone matches are 20 shots including 5 or more sighters.

http://www.accuratereloading.com/2009/bl100.html

...if one looks at them, they'll see at least one in each 5-group series of 5-shots for each ammo type, there's at least one group bigger than the average. And an overlayed composite of several of the best ones shows that 25-shot group to be 2 or 3 tenths inch bigger than the average listed for each load. Took me a while, but I managed to superimpose some atop each other (aligned on aiming square with scoring rings aligned) and plot where all 25 shots went. So I'll stick to my opinion that the best rimfire ammo on this planet shoots under 5/8th to 3/4ths inch and no better.

But I do believe folks can shoot rimfires into smaller subtended angles onpaper than high power rifles can. I've known for years that smallbore prone scores shot on 100 yard targets with 1 and 2 MOA high scoring rings have been better with less accurate ammo than high power match rifles shooting at 600 yards with the same subtended angles on their high scoring rings. In spite of the high power rifle's ammo shooting 1/2 MOA at 600 yards from machine rests and the best smallbore rifles shooting 1/2 MOA at 100 yards. Why? Simple to figure out. One has to hold still for 3 milliseconds from sear release to bullet exit on a high power rifle, but it moves 3 to 4 times as much during lock + barrel time than a rimfire 22 does; the bullet's departure axes is not all that repeatable. Rimfire rifles have to be held still fo 5 milliseconds for lock plus barrel time before the bullet exits, but they barely move at all in recoil during that time. Rimfire bullet's departure axes is quite repeatable. The winning and record setting scores in rimfire were higher in smallbore matches than high power ones. In spite of the fact that when both rifle types are tested from machine rests at 100 yards, the high power one shoots under 1/4 inch and the rimfire one shoots under 1/2 inch. It's not a "rifle + ammo" accuracy game, it's a shootability game. It's easier to shoot high scores with smallbore than it is high power. I wish my best smallbore scores could have been shot in high power.

Slamfire, I may be one of the few high power shooters who'll acknowledge this. I know most of them don't. All it takes to see the difference is look up the record scores on the NRA's web site or, check the scores fired at the Nationals and regionals and see which discipline has the greatest percentage of 200-17X or better cleans in prone. Betcha a Coke and a ham sandwich it's smallbore.
__________________
US Navy Distinguished Marksman Badge 153
Former USA Palma Team Member
NRA High Power Long Range High Master
NRA Smallbore Prone Master

Last edited by Bart B.; December 1, 2013 at 02:46 PM.
Bart B. is offline  
Old November 29, 2013, 10:34 PM   #56
22-rimfire
Senior Member
 
Join Date: February 19, 2005
Location: Tennessee
Posts: 4,555
Most people quote their best groups at whatever distance and seldom quote average groups with 22's. This thread is somewhat refreshing.

Competition benchrest shooting is turned into a science and I don't have the means or desire to keep pace with the kind of equipment used.

I still enjoy shooting cheap ammo at 50 yds and see how well I can do.
22-rimfire is offline  
Old November 30, 2013, 06:44 PM   #57
ronl
Senior Member
 
Join Date: December 2, 2007
Posts: 740
Interesting thread here. I've never really taken the time to measure groups from my Savage MKII TR. I used it for a while in silhouette competition, but I am really not very good at that discipline. I shoot it now for fun. At 50 yds. I did hit 11 bottle caps in a row then nailed a penny. Then my daughter drove up and hit 6 of them in a row, and she had never fired the gun before. She wanted to shoot a penny, but all I had was a nickle, so she drilled it dead center. We were shooting off a bipod with a Weaver Classic 4-16 scope and it was too easy. All I know is that the rifle is more than accurate enough for me.
ronl is offline  
Old November 30, 2013, 09:14 PM   #58
4runnerman
Senior Member
 
Join Date: January 16, 2010
Location: Minnsota
Posts: 2,656
I have never really shot for accuracy with a 22. I jst plink and shoot cans and such. Will have to try it next summer.
__________________
NRA Certified RSO
NwCP- Performance Isn't Optional
4runnerman is offline  
Old December 1, 2013, 10:37 AM   #59
old roper
Senior Member
 
Join Date: June 11, 2007
Posts: 987
22 rimfire match shooting is big business. You can got thru these match result and you'll find Tony Boyer shoot 22 rimfire at some of bigger ones.

http://www.ir5050.com/results1
__________________
Semper Fi
Vietnam
VFW
old roper is offline  
Old December 1, 2013, 11:49 AM   #60
mxsailor803
Senior Member
 
Join Date: February 8, 2010
Location: Norfolk, Va
Posts: 637
I decided to see what I could do with a .22lr a couple years ago. I ended up building up a Savage MKII with bull barrel. Since then, I've added a bi-pod, Boyds Evolution stock, built the triggerguard/bottom metal, 6-24x50 scope I had laying around, tried 20 different types of ammo, and ended up with my best 3 shot group of .584 at 100yds. Did that while betting 20 bucks against a guy with his AR that he thought was better. Best feeling was knowing that I had less in the whole rifle than he did in just his optics and he got beat .
mxsailor803 is offline  
Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 07:20 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
This site and contents, including all posts, Copyright © 1998-2013 S.W.A.T. Magazine
Copyright Complaints: Please direct DMCA Takedown Notices to the registered agent: thefiringline.com
Contact Us
Page generated in 0.09359 seconds with 8 queries