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Old November 25, 2013, 07:13 PM   #26
old roper
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Friend of mine shoot the 22 LR out to 200yds in the ASSRA and they have some matches down in Raton but here some 100yd groups

http://www.assra.com/2011_match_results.htm
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Old November 25, 2013, 07:43 PM   #27
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My 22's aren't high dollar. I have a remington 597 with a Walmart special tasco scope and it shoots 3/4" at 100 yards all day long. I dont claim to be an expert marksman.
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Old November 25, 2013, 07:44 PM   #28
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I'm not sure if this matters or not but my 597 is factory and it does NOT have the bull barrel.
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Old November 25, 2013, 08:30 PM   #29
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Slamfire, consistent ten shot groups of 0.38” at 100 yards sounds fishy. I don't know of any rifle nor ammo that shoots consistant size 3, 5 or 10 shot groups. They may average that, or have that as a mean radius, but I doubt they're all the same size to 1/100th of an inch extreme spread.
Well one someone says they have a half MOA rifle, then does the rifle always shoot all groups to 0.5000000” at 100 yards. No groups are 0.5001” or 0.505” or 0.498”? instead every group shot with the rifle is exactly 0.5” ?

I don’t want to argue about the significant digits nor the varience from the mean. I am not the quality control inspector for shot group measurement.

You are acting like every other good centerfire shooter to whom I have quoted those numbers. They just can’t believe that a rimfire could shoot that well and certainly not better than their target centerfires.

Well fine, maybe he uses Alien technology to shoot bug holed groups, maybe the guy is lying, could be the group size numbers are a total absolute fabrication. His winning a National Championship was not a fabrication. That was real, and this year Mr Kemp was 2nd senior for irons, 22 overall in Master Class irons, and 18th overall in the combined aggregate.

Anyone posting in this thread do better shooting small bore prone at Camp Perry this year?

I did not.
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Old November 25, 2013, 11:12 PM   #30
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Slamfire,

I know I can't do better, yet. I'm working on keeping all my 25 meter shots inside an inch, which translates to 4 inches at 100. On a very good string I can keep 5 shots inside a half inch, but I haven't done it with 10.

This is with a Zastava Z5 (aka Remington R5) bolt action rifle wearing a 4x optic. Shooting with a sling is a whole different animal than shooting from a rest. I might be able to do better with a better rifle and better ammunition, but I think my money is better spent using what I have until I can't get any better any more.

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Old November 26, 2013, 02:50 AM   #31
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22 LR accuracy

Impressive offhand groups roper.
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Old November 26, 2013, 07:43 AM   #32
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Shooting targets

It should be pointed out that - given the statistics about targets, rifles, ammo, and group sizes mentioned herein - you are not all really talking about that same thing.
I am guessing that quite a few of the smallish groups mentioned here were shot from a bench with a scope and were five shot strings. OK, that is one thing.
When we start to discuss small bore prone match shooting, we are in another realm altogether. The strings there are ten shots. The position is prone, sling, jacket. The sights, despite the picture of Mr. Kemp with a scoped rifle, are often iron/metallic sights. Even with metallic sights, small bore prone is a game of Xs....perfect scores are common and the guy who holds the center is the winner and often not by much.
The A27 50 yard prone target has an X ring that is 0.359" in diameter.
The A25 100 yard prone target has an X ring that is 1.0" in diameter.

A typical match is 1600 points/160 shots, sixty of those are shot at 100 yards.
All national records for smallbore prone competitions are perfect scores.
The record for the metallic sight 1600 match is 1600 - 152X. For scoped/any sight matches it is 1600 - 157X.
The oldest record that I know of is Tom Whitaker's 400-39X 100 yard score in a metallic sight match. (39 of 40 shots into one inch at 100 yards...no scope, no bench....do that with your Remington.)
Of course, a very great part of those scores is due to the shooters.
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Old November 26, 2013, 08:52 AM   #33
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Darkgael, what always missing is picture of a match 22 cal rifle vs standard type rifle and of course cost difference.

http://jga.anschuetz-sport.com/index...=303&sprache=1

As to Tom Whitaker's record he sure not the average shooter as he set records before 1968 when he was in the Air Force 50yds metallic sight match.

How many matches has he shot in before that record? Or better yet how many millions of rds has he fired.

You would expect someone like him to set records he's not the average shooter.
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Old November 26, 2013, 09:00 AM   #34
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I shot my Marlin 39A at my range's 50 yard line checking the accuracy of various brands. Eley Remington was the best with a group measuring <.70" with CCI minimags HPs and Thunder Bolts coming in slightly over .80". Fifteen years ago the Marlin was a .5" shooter, and it still is a .5" shooter but my eyes are trending to a 1" shooter.
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Old November 26, 2013, 10:30 AM   #35
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Call it ignorance or lack of exposure, but I never thought the ammo was capable of that performance. I didn't see the value in spending the extra money for a "match grade" barrel like I do with my center fire rifles.

So base on today's market, who makes some of the best ammo?
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Old November 26, 2013, 10:32 AM   #36
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As the old roper says, serious smallbore target shooting is a different world of skill, equipment, and challenge.

You Ruger and Marlin shooters might look into CMP Rimfire Sporter.
Rifles are limited to 7.5 lbs, 6X scope, 3 lb trigger.
Targets have a 1.78" ten ring.
Course of fire is slowfire and rapid fire prone and sitting at 50 yards, standing at 25.

A shooter from my club was fifth at the Nationals, 589/600 - 29X with a very tricked out 10/22. CZ 452s are the leading bolt action.
Winner had 593.
Nobody has yet cleaned the match so don't sneer at that fat ten ring.
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Old November 26, 2013, 11:33 AM   #37
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Salvadore, Eley Remington rimfire match ammo is Eley's Match stuff they sell in black boxes. Match is made on the same machines that make their Tenex ammo but tests a tiny bit less for accuracy so it's sold under that label.

I've shot selected lots of Eley Match a time or two and it shot as accurate as Tenex. Some years ago, the US Olympic Team needed a new batch of rimfire match ammo for their free rifles so they ordered some from Eley. The Eley rep told them that Eley's plant in Great Britain ran short of Match so they repackaged some Tenex ammo in Match labeled boxes; someting they've done from time to time. So the US Olympic Center in Colorado Springs got black box Match instead of red box Tenex reporting it was one of the most accurate lots of Eley ammo they'd ever had.
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Old November 26, 2013, 04:45 PM   #38
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Here is an informative article concerning a 22LR ammo test where the test mule was a Bleiker of consistent performance. The article is a little dated, but even then, there are 31 brands/loadings that turn in sub-moa at 100 yards.
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Old November 26, 2013, 05:11 PM   #39
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I have two 22 rifles, one Marlin 795 and one Savage MK II and neither of those will shoot MOA at 100 yds with bulk ammo. In fact with federal bulk ammo I am probably seeing 4 inches at 50 yds. With CCI bulk ammo the results are better but far from 1 MOA.

Just wanted to throw that out there after the torrent of phenomenal results others seem to be getting

And yes, I have centerfire rifles with which I am able to consistently shoot sub MOA so the poor results with the 22s is not only due to the indian.
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Old November 26, 2013, 11:51 PM   #40
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Realistically, I shoot 2 inches at 100 yards with a scope with a factory Ruger 10/22. These people claiming 1/2 inch groups at 100 yards should join the Olympics.
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Old November 27, 2013, 07:49 AM   #41
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I shoot with one guy out at the range that has his Grandfathers Anshultz (sp).
His Grandfather shot it in the Winter Olympics I am being told. Has this metal band that comes off the back of stock and wraps around the back of his shoulder. Any how he shoots a 6 inch metal gong at 300 yards and hits it almost always. It is fun to watch him. I sit 4 benches down from him ( he takes bench next to tree line for wind I would assume ). but to see the angle that rifle is sitting at is funny. Has a 10-50 x 56 Sightron scope on it. Pull trigger and count to 2 or 3 and then there is this -Ting, I laugh Everytime I watch him.
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Old November 27, 2013, 08:34 AM   #42
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My Winchester 75 I have owned for over 30 years and has had well over 10K rounds in those 30 years and how many before me I have no idea since the gun was well used when I bought it. The only thing I have done with it is a better set of peep sights and shoot it.
At 100 yards across sand bags and if I am on, sub moa’s are easy. Wind kills me if it’s gusting. Its one thing I can’t read very well.
I have only shot it once at 200 yards and all I will say to that is I kept them all on paper. How big was the target? I refuse to answer that question on grounds of self incrimination.
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Old November 27, 2013, 08:54 AM   #43
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Quote:
I shoot with one guy out at the range that has his Grandfathers Anshultz (sp).
His Grandfather shot it in the Winter Olympics I am being told. Has this metal band that comes off the back of stock and wraps around the back of his shoulder. Any how he shoots a 6 inch metal gong at 300 yards and hits it almost always. It is fun to watch him. I sit 4 benches down from him ( he takes bench next to tree line for wind I would assume ). but to see the angle that rifle is sitting at is funny. Has a 10-50 x 56 Sightron scope on it. Pull trigger and count to 2 or 3 and then there is this -Ting, I laugh Everytime I watch him.

I know that it takes the same amount of elevation for a 22 LR to go from 100 yards to 200 yards that I put on for a 308 going from 600 yards to 1000 yards. About 22 to 24 MOA. I cannot imagine how much more it takes to go from 200 yards to 300 yards for a rimfire, but it has to be a lot.

Plus rimfires get blown around by the slightest wind. Hitting a gong target at 300 yards with a rimfire would have to be a huge combination of luck and good holding.

In so far as the accuracy of older (pre 1960) rimfires, take a look at the Dec 1956 Gun Magazine www.gunsmagazine.com/1956issues/G1256.pdf‎ In that issue Larry Moore, an very active small bore prone shooter, tests period low cost rimfires and finds they shoot very well. Larry Moore was an exceptional shooter, and as a Government Employee, at Aberdeen Test Range, he was the test conductor on every candidate service rifle from the late 40's to the early 60's. Most of the reports he wrote are still withheld from the public domain, but he tested all the early M14, FAL, AR15 rifles.

If you notice in the article, Larry modified some of the rifles to make then shootable with a scope. From those who knew Larry, he had a machine shop at home. Several people I know bought rifles from his estate and they claim it is obvious that Larry went through the rifles fixing and adjusting things. Such as making the stock to buttplate fit perfect. I held a NM 1903 he had, and everything on that rifle was correct for a competition rifle. The rear sight had no wobble or binding, sights perfectly aligned, the bedding was correct, the trigger excellent. It also had been rebarreled, something I think Larry did.

Larry continued shooting until his death in 2005. I met people at small bore prone matches who knew Larry, and he also shot highpower, Larry must have been a competitor till his 70's or 80's.
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Old November 27, 2013, 09:51 AM   #44
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Slamfire-- He said he is almost maxed out on adjustment on his scope. My eyes are not the best,but he said he can also see his bullet just before it hits target.
It's just funny to watch him. looks like he is shooting into the sky almost
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Old November 27, 2013, 03:18 PM   #45
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winter

if the fellow's grandfather shot that .22 in the Winter Olympics then he must have been competing in the Biathlon event....it is the only shooting event in the Winter Olympics. Does the gun look anything like this:
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Old November 27, 2013, 05:55 PM   #46
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Originally Posted by 4runnerman
Slamfire-- He said he is almost maxed out on adjustment on his scope. My eyes are not the best,but he said he can also see his bullet just before it hits target.
It's just funny to watch him. looks like he is shooting into the sky almost
In the late afternoon, shooting facing North, I can see the bullet for the last few feet before it hits the target at 100yards (through a scope). I was stunned the first time I noticed it. It's pretty cool, I can actually make out the last bit of the trajectory sometimes. I can also see shotgun patterns if the sun is behind me.
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Old November 27, 2013, 06:16 PM   #47
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darkgael-- Kinda sorts looks like that. He has no mags hanging on the side of his though, and it has been tapped for scope mounts. The thing is stained darker color and the metal you have coming off the butt on the bottom, His is like that but it makes a wrap up to top of stock and rests on his shoulder on top. Basically like a U that you put your arm through. The thing shoots like a champ. I will have to get a pic of it next summer and post it. I don't know much about it,but I told him it say's Anshultz on it and that is very good quality there.
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Old November 27, 2013, 06:17 PM   #48
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I used to have an old Montgomery Ward bolt action target rifle with a garage sale scope. It would make one ragged hole from rest at 100 yards using bulk ammo.
Your 4" group is not bragging material.
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Old November 27, 2013, 07:04 PM   #49
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Darkgael- Here is a a pic,but the metal on the butt wraps all the way to the top of his shoulder ( must be a add on )
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Old November 27, 2013, 07:26 PM   #50
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My eyes are not the best,but he said he can also see his bullet just before it hits target.
With a scope, when the sun and wind conditions are right, at 100 yards I have seen black dots that have to be the bullets on their way to my target. There are times I can see the trace and it is interesting to see evidence of cork screwing of the bullet path.

The rifle you show is likely a M1413, based on the stock and probable age.

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