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Old November 7, 2013, 03:58 PM   #1
Uncle Malice
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First all metal(1911!) 3-D printed gun

I think by now we've all seen the 3D printed plastic AR lower that has been on the scene. This is the first time I've seen an all metal 3D printed gun. AND... it's a 1911 - and it seems to work fairly well.

At this time, it's just a proof of concept, but it's still a pretty cool idea.

Check out the video and see what you guys think!
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Old November 7, 2013, 04:18 PM   #2
James K
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There have already been bills introduced to ban "printed" guns and the possession of the hardware and software to make them.

Another thing for NSA to look for and justification for more electronic surveillance by our government.

Jim
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Old November 7, 2013, 04:24 PM   #3
LockedBreech
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The reality that 3D printing is revealing bit by bit is scary to governments and gun control proponents because it forces them to face something that has always been the case. When criminals want to be armed, they will find a way to be armed. This does not mean that there should be no gun laws at all, only that criminal violations (violent felons in possession, violent crimes with guns, etc.) should be prosecuted with extreme harshness to deter such behavior. I'm preaching to the choir here and I know that, but gun laws have never and will never keep guns away from the criminals who want them, and laws restricting gun ownership affect law-abiding individuals almost exclusively.

3D printing just forces those policymakers who have looked away that truth for a long time to stare at it.
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Old November 7, 2013, 04:36 PM   #4
Walt Sherrill
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Seems like 3-D printing in stainless steel would take a very sophisticated shop, a DIFFERENT type of 3-D printer, a very big budget, and specialized knowhow (from a metallurgical perspective).

(Isn't hardening required for some of the gun components? I wonder, too, how the steel produced through this process compares to MIM or Investment Cast metal? This isn't a PLASTIC gun! I'm going to be skeptical about this whole story until I learn more about the technology used. I find it hard to believe.)
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Old November 7, 2013, 04:41 PM   #5
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How do you 3D print something in metal? My understanding with 3D printing is that it adds material little by little, hence the ease of using plastic as it can be heated, shaped, and reheated and reshaped fairly easily. But how do you add metal a little bit at a time? Wouldn't some parts of the metal be hardening at different times, and wouldn't those differences present weaknesses in the overall design? I need more knowledge, I'm woefully lacking.

Let's also not forget this really isn't some sort of way to bypass the gun industry. You need a lot of technical knowledge and the 3D Printer, which costs thousands of dollars, to do this. Heck they'll probably just make you register the 3D printer when you purchase it. As it is there's a video from VICE about how "gunsmiths" in the Pacific Islands (I think the Philippines) make guns in home shops. I guarantee you they didn't spend thousands of dollars for those setups. There are easier and cheaper ways to make a gun than is presented in this video, even they admit that. It's more a proof of their method working.

Edit: From watching the video they use a process called Direct Metal Laser Sintering. My guess is this is similar to 3d Printing in concept but different in the process.
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Old November 7, 2013, 05:16 PM   #6
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3D metal printing fuses new metal to the shape with a laser and metal powder. It is generally stronger than MIM and at least as sound as a casting, but is more accurate than an investment casting. Depending on the metal the final piece may not need heat treating. I had looked into it for some Ti parts. It is more than sufficient to produce a 1911 frame and could produce a slide or barrel if designed with the process in mind and heat treatment was available.

It is currently a very expensive process, but that will change. Just like home CNC machines got less expensive.

In principle, it may be possible in a short time to print an entire gun, assembled with all the springs and small parts. Using the right source material would make it possible to control heat treat using different laser intensities, air hardening steels and pre-hardened sinters. You'd have to disassemble to remove the metal powder and lubricate.
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Old November 7, 2013, 05:29 PM   #7
polyphemus
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The firearms industry having been in the business of manufacturing guns for
hundreds of years will be the first to adopt this process-should it be viable-and
then only those who have more money than they know what to do with and
too much time in their hands will be engaging in such endeavor.
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Old November 7, 2013, 06:00 PM   #8
Dunecigar
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Though this is a 3D topic people are hooting about gun control and crime... so allow me to do the same.

Here's how I see it:

1. Before there were guns there was crime.

2. At present we have crime done with guns. Granted.

3. In the future there will either be crime with laser guns or with rocks, depending how things go at present.

4. 1, 2, and 3 together tell you that there will always be crime.

5. A gun is not the crime only the criminal act done with or without it.

Makes sense to me... hope it does to you.

Have a nice day.
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Old November 7, 2013, 06:24 PM   #9
RX-79G
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Quote:
The firearms industry having been in the business of manufacturing guns for
hundreds of years will be the first to adopt this process-should it be viable-and
then only those who have more money than they know what to do with and
too much time in their hands will be engaging in such endeavor.
It is a prototyping method. No regular manufacturer is going to use it when casting, forging, CNC, etc. are cheaper for quantities.

For a one off, prototype, etc. it is a neat system, but not cheap.

Those who have reason already to buy such an expensive machine will be the ones making guns for themselves. Just as machinists have, always.


I understand the public concern - it is starting to become possible via file sharing and processes like this to make something as complex as a firearm with no special knowledge or skill. But knowledge and skill have never had anything to do with who should or shouldn't be able to own a gun.
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Old November 7, 2013, 07:23 PM   #10
DaleA
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Maybe the anti's will finally realize the genie is well and truly out of the bottle.

I wanted to say more but just read:

Lockedbreech #3

and

Dunecigar #8

they said it better than I could
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Old November 10, 2013, 05:03 PM   #11
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Besides the political crap....... did you see how much of a hard time it had going back into battery after being fired. Granted it is a first prototype and looks works better than I was expecting it to. They still got a long way to go... unless of course they stamp the name Taurus on it, then its just how they like em.

Before you call me a basher... I am just poking fun.
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Old November 10, 2013, 10:12 PM   #12
dajowi
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By criminalizing 3-D printers, software etc. our government will (if it hasn't already) created a whole new black market. Our government didn't learn anything from prohibition. They apparently aren't learning anything regarding the war on drugs. Our government is a slow learner.
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Old November 10, 2013, 10:32 PM   #13
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As I Understand it I can legally manufacture my own gun for my own use under current law. If I am not wrong about that, how would having a 3D printer be any different than having an old Bridgeport mill and lathe?

If I wanted to break the law and manufacture and sell thousands of them what difference would the tool used make?

I believe if a person is determined to make guns they could gain the skill and tools to do it with or without a 3D printer. I think the 3D thing is being blown way out of proportion.
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Seams like once we the people give what, at the time, seams like a reasonable inch and "they" take the unreasonable mile we can only get that mile back one inch at a time.

No spelun and grammar is not my specialty. So please don't hurt my sensitive little feelings by teasing me about it.
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Old November 11, 2013, 12:19 AM   #14
n5lyc
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In Afghanistan,I saw a p08 Luger, that was entirely hand made, no fancy mills or lathes.

While it wasn't DWM fit/finish, it was a fine shooter, and was reasonably accurate.

If you have the time,and the skills, you don't need a printer..
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I make 2 predictions:
ON THE DATE WHEN US TROOPS ARE ISSUED AN Energy Pulse Weapon,
1. The US Soldier will have on his person a version of the Colt 1911.
2. He will be aiming the NEW Weapon at someone carrying an AK.
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Old November 11, 2013, 12:53 AM   #15
Chaz88
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I wish I still had access to a machine shop. I would go turn a 1911 out and put the video on u-tube and wait for the cry to ban or regulate machining equipment.

DISCLAIMER: I can neither confirm nor deny that I was ever involved in a plan to machine a couple of 1911's for personal use back when I did have access to a machine shop.
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Seams like once we the people give what, at the time, seams like a reasonable inch and "they" take the unreasonable mile we can only get that mile back one inch at a time.

No spelun and grammar is not my specialty. So please don't hurt my sensitive little feelings by teasing me about it.
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Old November 11, 2013, 08:18 AM   #16
Walt Sherrill
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Quote:
As I Understand it I can legally manufacture my own gun for my own use under current law. If I am not wrong about that, how would having a 3D printer be any different than having an old Bridgeport mill and lathe?
And, we can reasonably assume that the technicians in the video work for a firm that has a manufacturer's FFL. As I understand it, the problems arise when you try to SELL the device(s) you've created.
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Old November 11, 2013, 08:42 AM   #17
Chaz88
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And, we can reasonably assume that the technicians in the video work for a firm that has a manufacturer's FFL. As I understand it, the problems arise when you try to SELL the device(s) you've created.
I agree. So in my mind that still begs the question; what difference dose it make what tool is used? The law already covers anything that could arise from having the 3D capability.
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Seams like once we the people give what, at the time, seams like a reasonable inch and "they" take the unreasonable mile we can only get that mile back one inch at a time.

No spelun and grammar is not my specialty. So please don't hurt my sensitive little feelings by teasing me about it.
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Old November 11, 2013, 09:20 AM   #18
losttech
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As someone else has said I saw all manner of guns hand made in Afghanistan 9mm, shotguns etc no fancy tools just guys sitting in a mud house with scrap metal.
These guns worked fine and were made in quantity.
The 3D printing issue is media hype you can make a gun at a hardware store not the best but it will fire a shell.


Here is a video from pakistan.
http://www.vice.com/the-vice-guide-t...ts-of-pakistan
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Old November 11, 2013, 09:51 AM   #19
Skans
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Quote:
DISCLAIMER: I can neither confirm nor deny that I was ever involved in a plan to machine a couple of 1911's for personal use back when I did have access to a machine shop.
Why not? As long as its for your personal use, no problem.
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Old November 11, 2013, 09:55 AM   #20
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That's not a gun. It's a grenade that looks like a gun. Next case.
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Old November 11, 2013, 10:34 AM   #21
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It is a neat idea but as was already said, if its for personal use then its ok, they also said in the video that they have an ffl so what is the problem? You can make an old zip gun with just a piece of pipe so........
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Old November 11, 2013, 05:18 PM   #22
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As has already been pointed out, for less money and with less skill, firearms can be made by more conventional methods.
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Old November 11, 2013, 06:36 PM   #23
3.Shot.Group.
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Isn't 3-D printing just good ole CNC? I mean you can draw gun parts on a CADD system, then send it to the CNC machine to make the parts, so what's the difference?

I'm on Dial Up, so I don't have the patience to watch the video.
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Old November 11, 2013, 06:44 PM   #24
Chaz88
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Isn't 3-D printing just good ole CNC? I mean you can draw gun parts on a CADD system, then send it to the CNC machine to make the parts, so what's the difference?
As far as this topic goes I do not see a difference.

In practice, as I understand it, the 3D uses powdered metal and a laser to micro weld the item from specifications given by a program. The main difference would be the 3D can make more complex objects than the mill can. The mill starts with a piece of bar stock and cuts away everything that is not the object you are making. The 3D welds the powder into the object you are making in layers so it can add more complex elements during the process.
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Seams like once we the people give what, at the time, seams like a reasonable inch and "they" take the unreasonable mile we can only get that mile back one inch at a time.

No spelun and grammar is not my specialty. So please don't hurt my sensitive little feelings by teasing me about it.
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Old November 11, 2013, 06:51 PM   #25
3.Shot.Group.
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I just read an article that says a company called Solid Concepts makes a 1911 using a process that is(I think) similar to injection molding, except with metal not plastics/polymers.

The article says the parts have to be "cleaned up", which I interpreted as deburring and polishing.

Solid Concepts has a FFL though, so it's completely legal.

When someone builds and proves a replicator(like on Star Trek), then I'll be impressed.

@Chaz88

That's pretty much what this article says. Kind of neat actually. I can see how it would change things, especially things like knife blades and such that could benefit from layers of varying metals. Maybe even a better bullet. Things that are stronger, yet light weight; Who knows where it could lead?

I don't know why people want to ban it though, just because they used it to make a gun. Maybe they're afraid it'll hurt business?

Lol, all that technology and they used rubber bands and string to test fire it.

Last edited by 3.Shot.Group.; November 11, 2013 at 07:04 PM.
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