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Old November 6, 2013, 01:13 AM   #26
buckfynn
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I shoot plated bullets out of my Glock 21SF Gen 3, but I bought a Wilson barrel just for them. If the manufacture recommends not shooting lead bullets, why risk it is my philosophy.
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Old November 6, 2013, 01:22 AM   #27
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In my opinion, with very limited experience on the subject, I think it has to do with the people who think they can shoot lead, and not clean their gun after 1000 rounds, like what MANY Glock users do with jacketed bullets. I always hear or read about people bragging how many bullets they have through their Glocks, without cleaning the bore. I think that's where the problem stems from. I think if a competent hand loader, loads properly sized, and properly loaded, cast lead, so that leading is minimal, and they properly clean their barrel after use, that the danger of blowing up the gun is minimal. Also removing copper fouling BEFORE using lead is important because the copper fouling can cause severe leading. It seems some people think you can just use lead with a copper fouled barrel and then shoot copper jacketed bullets again, to 'shoot' all of the lead fouling out of the barrel... Instead of actually cleaning the bore.

I hear the same thing about not using cast lead in AK47's and Mini 30's because the gas system will get locked up with lead, yet I see people shooting 100's if not 1000's of gas checks out of those rifles, up to velocities sometimes exceeding 2000fps, and they don't have problems with their barrels or gas systems because they took the time to develop a load that works, and also maintain their firearms properly.

Last edited by JD0x0; November 6, 2013 at 01:29 AM.
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Old November 6, 2013, 01:32 AM   #28
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Quote:
I think it has to do with...
If the topic interests you, I suggest you get The Glock in Competition and read the chapter on lead bullets.

Most of what you postulate is contrary to the results of the testing performed and then detailed in the book.
Quote:
...not clean their gun after 1000 rounds...
How about a 100fps climb in muzzle velocity due to pressure increases caused by leading after only 75 rounds through a bore that started out clean? It's not just about people who neglect their equipment.
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Old November 6, 2013, 06:02 AM   #29
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I don't see why it's an issue.
For the cost of a few boxes of store-bought ammo you can buy an aftermarket barrel with traditional rifling.
If you're reloading lead, you'll make up the difference in no time, and not have to worry about anything exploding.

I find it odd that a group of people can - at the same time - determine that the probability of being attacked/robbed is high enough to warrant carrying a gun every day just-in-case, but the probability of a catastrophic failure resulting from misuse of said gun isn't worth paying attention to.
Risk is risk.

Personally, I carry a gun, I follow manufacturers recommendations, I wear a harness when I'm working on a roof, and I wear a seat-belt when I'm in a moving vehicle.
I guess I'm a belt and suspenders kind of guy.
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Old November 6, 2013, 08:03 AM   #30
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I shoot lead thru my HK45 without a problem. There is nothing in the manual about lead, and the only "precaution" I take is give the barrel a thorough scrub with Hoppe's after a lead shooting session instead of the usual CLP douse after FMJ.
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Old November 6, 2013, 09:51 AM   #31
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4. Don't recommend that other people follow your example. The fact that you have a Glock that doesn't lead badly doesn't mean that Glock your buddy just bought or the one that the guy on the internet just brought home will perform the same way. Passamaneck's testing proved conclusively that such an assumption is inaccurate.

#4 is really the critical one. If you know the score, or think you know the score, and don't mind taking the risk, that's up to you. It's your gun, your fingers, your eyes. But you should be VERY cautious about recommending that others follow your example unless you give them the entire story from both sides so that they can make an informed decision.
To be clear, I'm not recommending that others use my example. And I'm especially not recommending someone go to the store and buy lead ammunition and a Glock and start shooting it without a chrono, without checking for leading, without checking the brass/primers for over pressure, etc.

What I am saying is that under the right conditions, it works, and under those conditions I feel the risk is comparable to shooting full power jacketed reloads in a 40 S&W Glock. Or maybe 9mm major loads in IPSC.

Last edited by wayneinFL; November 6, 2013 at 12:08 PM. Reason: clarity
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Old November 6, 2013, 02:22 PM   #32
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I have shot thousands rounds of hard cast Organ trail through , Glock 9mm, 40 and 45acp. The only problem I had was with wheel weight 40s, they would not stabilize (from being too soft). At one time there was a problem with Federal brass being week. I believe any problem with 40 S&W is with a fouled chamber, being out of battery and with week brass in 40 S&W. Most gun manufactories do not warranty guns shot with any reloads.

I have had no problems with hared cast lead in Glocks. I am not recommending that you shoot lead bullets, only that you use common sense.
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Old November 6, 2013, 02:44 PM   #33
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Originally Posted by RX-79G
...Peters-Stahl, Kahr, Vector, Jericho/Baby Eagle, USP, Steyr GB, P7 and P9S all have polygonal barrels. No particular rep any of them ever got for leading....
In any case, however, there is another reason to avoid lead in an H&K P7.

It's a gas retarded blowback action. Barrel lock-up during the initial stage of the firing cycle is by way of gas bled off through a hole just in front of the chamber bearing on a piston which keeps the slide closed until the pressure relieves. Accumulated lead from unjacketed bullets will obstruct that hole impairing barrel lock-up.

I apologize for this off-topic excursion. But since the P7 was mentioned I wanted to point out that with that particular pistol there is a reason to avoid lead bullets besides the often raised issues of the possibility of excessive leading in the bore.
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Old November 6, 2013, 10:39 PM   #34
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Originally Posted by sheepman
...use common sense.
Well said. Since the manufacturer has done extensive testing with many of their guns with a wide variety of loadings, under a wide variety of test conditions and with the benefit of sophisticated measuring equipment, and given that an independent forensics engineer agrees with their recommendations, common sense should suffice.
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Old November 6, 2013, 10:59 PM   #35
chris in va
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I didn't shoot one single jacketed round out of my G21SF. Over a thousand lead bullets.

I will point out the Glock rifling is different from normal polygonal versions. It's more like a smooth bore with speed bumps thrown in. I had zero leading.

Now my Kahr looks like a stopsign in cross section. One mag of 9mm lead reloads and it was stuffed, and that was enough for me.
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Old November 6, 2013, 11:03 PM   #36
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Ok, you gotta admit that's worth a chuckle. Now we have one person claiming it's a Glock issue, not a polygonal rifling issue and that Kahrs aren't affected and another claiming it's a polygonal rifling issue, but not a Glock issue and that it does affect Kahrs.
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Old November 7, 2013, 10:40 AM   #37
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"Hard Cast" and Glocks

For the benefit of folks who are newer to lead bullets, be wary when someone selling bullets just refers to them as hard cast. Any reputable dealer should be able to tell you how hard the bullets are. The standard in cast bullet alloy is Lyman #2 which is BHN 15. That hardness level or higher will give no problems in leading out of a pistol. For comparison pure lead is BHN 5 and wheel weights are generally around 9. Linotype is at the upper end around BHN 21. I have found very different levels of hardness in boxes of bullets sold as hard cast and some were unacceptably soft so buyer beware.

As far as Glocks, the manufacturer tells you not to shoot them out of their pistols so it is not a good idea to do it. If you what to shoot cast bullets, buy a different pistol with a conventional barrel or if you already have a Glock, get a barrel that is approved for lead.
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Old November 7, 2013, 11:01 AM   #38
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Sometimes a softer bullet is more better.
Here's a good explanation:
http://www.tacticoolproducts.com/bullethardness/
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Old November 7, 2013, 12:51 PM   #39
jolly roger
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No problems whatsoever with Missouri 125 truncated cone at 18 Brinnell out of my 17. None either with 230 cast Missouri bullets out of a 21SF. Low power plinking loads only. Would I shoot cast out of a 40? Most likely not. I also clean the barrel every 100 rounds or so but little evidence of fouling at all.

And BTW the 17 is extremely accurate with the 125s.
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Old November 7, 2013, 06:52 PM   #40
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No. If you might have been shooting lead handloads in a Glock I would forget I ever did it if I had problems with the pistol.
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Old November 8, 2013, 10:50 PM   #41
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Save the reloading money to buy more guns. Rednecks and chemistry don't mix.
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Old November 8, 2013, 10:59 PM   #42
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...If you might have been shooting lead handloads in a Glock I would forget I ever did it if I had problems with the pistol.
Saw that happen at a match one day. A shooter had his Glock "come apart" during a string. He was unhurt--except that it somehow caused selective amnesia. He suddenly couldn't remember what kind of ammunition he had been using. The lead buildup in the barrel, and then comments later from his friends helped to shed some light on the issue.
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Old November 9, 2013, 03:36 PM   #43
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Leading can become a problem in almost any firearm very quickly, and as someone else stated it can be hit or miss. One of my first purchases as a young man was a Dan Wesson 357 revolver. For practice I always shot 38 special reloads of my own, or purchased at the range. Lead Semi-Wad cutters. One day while shooting my second box of 50 the revolver cylinder would not spin past a certain point. When I looked at the end of the barrel the hole was about the diameter of a pencil eraser. OOPS!! Needless to say the excess pressure ruined the gun, and I learned a valuable lesson. If your shooting lead bullets you better make sure of the quality of the lead, how hot the load is, and check your firearm frequently ( or clean frequently) especially if your firing quickly and heating the gun up. I personally no longer shoot non-jacketed bullets in my firearms.
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Old November 9, 2013, 05:01 PM   #44
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Which is the point I was making - leading can become dangerous in any gun with any kind of rifling. Polygonal rifling isn't specifically warned against by companies making Glock competitive pistols with regular polygonal barrels.
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Old November 9, 2013, 05:13 PM   #45
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I have shot lead through them and will continue to do so, with particular attention to keeping the bore clean. Don't take this as a recommendation to do the same.

In the early 90's we had not heard of this 'unleaded only in Glocks' thing. Like a lot of small Depts. I had a tiny ammo budget and 50 guys to qualify. So we shot lead by the case. Nothing came apart, though I am familiar with several of those early Glocks that came unhinged on an exclusive diet of jacketed factory ammo.
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Old December 31, 2013, 09:18 PM   #46
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Just ordered a Lone Wolf barrel for the 34.
6 inch length with 2 port external. I didn’t go with the 4 or 6 ports from seeing one being fired.
Thanks every one
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Old January 1, 2014, 10:00 PM   #47
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gun writers are horrible for misinformation. my brother gave me a number of gun mags he bought thinking they were something else and gave them to me because they were all about guns I am more interested than he is.

in them I read a man with a 455 webley that claimed that he was shooting brand new remington factory ammo that he bought from his LGS. as far as I know remington never made 455 ammo.

there was one man who got a "100% genuine, as issued K98K mauser with SS lightning bolts" from mitchells, a company notorious for forging stamps and proofs and which refinishes all their metal and slaps new stocks on before they ship them out.

there was another article in which the writer "received" a "1903A4" from gibbs rifle company(a company which makes reproductions from demilled guns). the scope was backwards, needing to be rotated 90 degrees in order to zero it and then he entered it in a vintage sniper match where he came in dead last and did nothing but laud the craftsmanship and quality of gibbs. never believe anything you read in a magazine unless it's written by someone with a bit of authority.
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Old January 20, 2014, 06:45 PM   #48
Ozzieman
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New Glock 34 Lone Wolf barrel

New Glock 34 Lone Wolf barrel
Just wanted to thank everyone on the suggestions.
Thanks
Attached Images
File Type: jpg lone wolf 2.jpg (158.0 KB, 21 views)
File Type: jpg lone wolf 3.jpg (104.9 KB, 19 views)
File Type: jpg lone wolf 4.jpg (169.8 KB, 18 views)
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