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Old November 8, 2013, 10:41 PM   #51
reynolds357
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Erno, have you seen a hot barreled cook off with any of the powder manufactured in the last 30 years in anything other than a closed breech machine gun? You can take a closed breech machine gun, make the barrel glow, and cook off a round with some powders. Other than that, its not happening. Assume a "hot barreled cook off" could occur in reasonable circumstances. The bolt is open and slightly slid back. What is going to happen?
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Old November 9, 2013, 08:56 AM   #52
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Public Rifle Ranges Got to love them

The biggest single issue with anything "public" is that the public encompasses a certain percentage of slobs and morons.

The First Basic Law of Human Stupidity asserts without ambiguity that

Always and inevitably everyone underestimates the number of stupid individuals in circulation


More here...
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Old November 9, 2013, 09:50 AM   #53
Chad.C
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These stories make me laugh I've never been to a public range but I might try one out sometime
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Old November 9, 2013, 10:18 AM   #54
Brian Pfleuger
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Public Rifle Ranges Got to love them

Public ranges are different than private ranges or those used only by professionals. When I shoot with people I trust, I think nothing of being down range when they're handling a gun. I know it's been made safe. The bolt is out, or open, or whatever it takes. Public places, no sir, I'd be ducking for cover. There's a lot of idiots out there.
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Old November 11, 2013, 03:49 PM   #55
Erno86
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reynolds357 - Hot barreled cook off with the bolt open and slightly slid back?
I would assume that the bullet would result in a squib load --- with the shell casing ejecting/propelling backwards --- possibly causing serious injury or death to the shooter or any bystander's nearby.
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Old November 11, 2013, 05:35 PM   #56
Axelwik
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We have a pretty good public range here in Albuquerque. The range officers are very strict about not handling guns during a ceasefire, and will ask those who violate range protocols to leave.

Some people don't like to be told what to do because it's an assault to their ego, but I'm glad that they enforce the rules. It seems that as the years go by a larger and larger proportion of the population are kinda stupid, hence a society with more and more dumb rules.

Last edited by Axelwik; November 11, 2013 at 05:54 PM.
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Old November 11, 2013, 06:16 PM   #57
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The way I see it, the more public ranges, the better. An important component in the survival of the Second Amendment is to provide facilities for more people to participate in and enjoy and appreciate the shooting sports. More public ranges afford more people the opportunity to experience what some of us take for granted. I see no downside for providing readily accessible avenues that encourages people new to the shooting sports to take advantage of shooting ranges open to the public.
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Old November 14, 2013, 05:40 PM   #58
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I really dig our local range, but its erks me when testing data loads some highly skilled call of duty fellar gets out all his guns, and takes his friends to the range where unfortunately the range personel assigns the fella the booth next to me,,,, and its happened more than once.
Once I had a five load data test to complete, and the first shot from my rifle was followed by three smaller diameter holes, i could only sit and wait 15 mins for cease-fire then retrieve trash target and pin up new one and shoot a four round data group,, before I shot my next group I got behind this novice shooter and saw he was aiming at my target, before he could fire first round I said "Hey buddy, your killing my target, stay on yours please" then he tried to deny it so I show him tras target with one 30-06 hole, and three .22 caliber hole in it,,,, he still denied it, but he never shot on my target again.
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Old November 16, 2013, 01:54 AM   #59
DRenn
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public rifle ranges got to love them

crawling out from under my rock:

Gents:

Our range is owned by the County Parks & Recreation department. It is staffed by volunteers. Range rules, procedures and protocol are partially dictated by the County AND the insurance provider. We are a regulated range; 15 minutes of shooting followed by how ever long it takes to get people back from downrange. Our emphasis is SAFETY; our goal is for everyone to go home uninjured. We are successful.

We have a wide spectrum of experience on range at any time. We are general use range, meaning that a pistol shooter can be next to a high power shooter or next to someone shooting an MSR. We can have the newest gun owner next to a seasoned national match competitor. So we really can't assume that the shooting public has "common sense" or has been trained or has more than novice experience. We require range users to view a 3-4 minute range safety continuous loop dvd. And we announce at the beginning of each ceasefire the allowable activities during the ceasefire (mess with targets; pickup brass; relax behind our safety line) NO activity is permitted at a shooting bench - including sitting on the stool - during a ceasefire. And no one fires until the RSO's have checked the range clear of people.

I have found that most people change their behavior when they are coached in a firm, clear, calm manner, explaining how to do something in a SAFER manner. We don't yell. Few have to be coached twice. In 6 years I have had two shooters who continued to exhibit UNSAFE behavior after two coaching "moments". We asked them to leave.

Yes, we hear the occasional shooter who take umbrage with our no messing with guns during ceasefire policy. Almost universally they accept that our procedures are to their best benefit when we explain what we want to do and more importantly WHY we do it. If shooters are staying away because they don't like some aspect of how we do business, well, it would be news to me. I see a lot of the same faces week after week.

I think I'm done now.

Watch yer 6!
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Old November 16, 2013, 11:03 AM   #60
P5 Guy
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I know the feeling hooligan.
At an indoor range I used to belong to when a crowd came in and ran their targets out about ten feet and started blasting away on either side of me. I had my target out at the end seventy five feet shooting my 22lr target pistol.
Needless to say my target had multiple 40 and 38 caliber holes all over the sheet.
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Old November 16, 2013, 11:25 AM   #61
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Got to the show late but...

I've seen similar situations at a private range I used to frequent for years on public days. They're range consists of one 25 yd, 50 yd, 100 yd, and 200 yd bays with an additional indoor pistol range and shotgun range. The only ranges open to shooters are the 25, 50, and 100yd bays on "public range days" and it really gets crowded i.e. dangerous.

The last time (and probably the final time unless my application ever surfaces) I went early and brought some pistols to wait for the line to die down on the 100yd rifle range. So I set up in the 25 yd bay with about five or six other shooters on the available 6 stations. The range officer (private member volunteer) goes over safety rules etc and we start plinking away and everything was going well. The other shooters were aware of muzzle discipline and keeping their gun actions open and untouched during cease fires. Well after about 15-20 minutes go by and then 6 additional shooters appeared and the safety officer had them set up on the already in use stations. Tight? Yes. Dangerous? Very.

One particular new comer (early 30's) caught my attention during cold cease fire breaks as he had a glock 26/27 and was teaching two of his lady friends how to shoot. This was clearly their first time with such a platform and both women experienced FTE/FTF on every shot do to improper grip and limp-wristing. Well, this frustrated the new comer and when a cease fire was called to check targets he walked up to the line to inspect his gun and pointed it down range while some of the other shooters were still inspecting their targets.

When chastised by the range officer he complied and set the gun back down, but once the officer walked away, new comer then made a sarcastic comment saying..."On the farm we don't have/need cold ranges," and laughed it off to his friends.

Needless to say, this prompted me to pack up and leave. I doubt I'll ever go back to a public shooting day at this range.
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Old November 17, 2013, 04:01 AM   #62
BornToLooze
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I not really complaining about him shooting it, but at one of the ranges I go to, everyone has been sighting in their hunting rifles for deer season and a couple weeks ago some guy had his .450 something sighting it in for deer hunting. While I haven't been hunting in a long time and don't know much about it, I think that might be a little excessive. Don't get me wrong, I love high power rifles as much as the next guy, but I might leave that one for the hogs.

The thing that surprises me, I go to 2 ranges. Ones an indoor pistol range and ones an outdoor rifle range. The indoor range is really strict with rules and how long in between shots, it's expensive, really nice, and the outdoor range the only rule is don't do anything stupid, $5 a gun all day long, no range officer or anything and is basically targets out in a field. Which one would you guess has all of the idiots at it?
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Old November 19, 2013, 07:08 PM   #63
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Public ranges are much like anything else public. Seems you always have someone who is either ignorant of safety or courtesy or just dosnt care. Unfortunately, its usually the latter. Most of this can be taken care of by a good rangemaster. As for the muzzle brake and big boomers, Hey, its a firing range, things go boom and it is actually up to you to bring along sufficent ear protection. Dont forget the eye protection too. Dont forget, the guy there with the muzzle brake has just as much right to be there as you have.

For those who find the public range a bit too uncomfortable, they by all means, state your complaints to the rangemaster. If they cant satisfy your problem, then join a private range or build your own.
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Old November 20, 2013, 08:31 AM   #64
wogpotter
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That would work on public ranges where there was a range-master. Unfortunately round here the only public ranges staff are 6 1/2 miles away at the ranger station.
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Old November 20, 2013, 02:31 PM   #65
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I don't go to my local range anymore. I say local but in reality it's close to an hour away. The old grumpy range "god" gets on my nerves. He jumped on me once 10 seconds after the range was closed for playing with my gun..... If the guy wasn't so quick to be an ass clown he would have seen that I was playing with my binoculars and the bolt was removed from my gun.... And on the same day some young punk at an ar that was not only loud, but kept slinging brass on my table. One of the empties landed on my neck and it was sure hot. Seriously, I have ar's too, but put a deflector or Cather on it at the range if someone is getting hit by your brass. The range master didn't seem to want to say something to the guy.
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Old November 20, 2013, 08:07 PM   #66
8MM Mauser
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I find it hard to believe that someone would shoot another person's target...

I am not a professionally trained shooter, what I know has been gleaned from interactions with police and military friends (and a stint hoping for a career in Law enforcement), as well as some helpful strangers and coming from a family of hunters. I have done 99% of my shooting at a free public range. The Boy Scouts clean it up a couple times a year and the DNR swings by once or twice a year, or so I have been told.

I have never been nervous to see people loading weapons or handling guns behind me while I set up targets; it is common. If I really thought that they were dangerous people or dangerously mishandling their firearms I would not go to that range. Part of the reason I avoid the indoor ranges are here (besides price) is that there are always a bunch of morons there. Sometimes bachelors party's go there on their way to drink themselves silly and just giggle the whole time reciting movie lines and shooting at targets ten feet away and missing completely. Of course, I have never seen even those guys shoot another person's target FGS.

I suppose my range is just a lucky place; it is not marked at all and it is actually hard to find. I have been going there for over two years and I still miss it sometimes! It is the kind of place that you have to "know someone" to find. I knew someone who introduced me to it. It is a great place full of responsible shooters and only once or twice have I been nervous about anyone there.

One time I remember some jerk shooting an AK had himself positioned so that his brass was landing on my NRA hat while I was trying to sight in my rifle and help my BIL sight in his rifle. I asked him to stop and he ignored me, completely as though I had not spoken! When we went to check our targets I could not help but notice his was untouched by even a single round.

Once we went back to the 100 yard line he realized he was out of ammo and asked my BIL if he could borrow some as we were heading back. My BIL was shooting a Marlin 336 in .30-30! When he (my BIL) said no, the guy took out a Springfield XD pistol and blasted away like a maniac, rapid firing at a target 100 yards away he couldn't hit with a rifle...

I have not seen that guy come back though; and most people are both nice and responsible. Many of the older gents are actually happy to let you handle and/or fire their guns. I once had a guy ask for my help sighting in his red dot sight for a Glock 19 he had recently had a silencer fitted to. It was COOL because he let me shoot it while he watched and adjusted the sight. Anyway, I trust the people I shoot with, or I wouldn't shoot with them.
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Old November 21, 2013, 08:15 AM   #67
wogpotter
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Quote:
I find it hard to believe that someone would shoot another person's target...
Maybe not intentionally, but I've seen targets (some mine) with 3 different sized holes in them!

Let me tell you a tale of a public range. If you lived on Long Island you might recognize the description.

It had “professional” staff that did things like insisting an AR-7 (which does not have BHO feature) have the bolt held open during a cease-fire. One of the RO’s insisted it be done no matter what & dropped the bolt on a live .22rf round, inserted base first into the ejection port sideways & rim in, which fired. Luckily no one was hurt.

They had no less than 4 “firing safety zones” identified by different colored stripes on the concrete. Each colored zone had its own audible & visual warning system.
Zone 1 (green stripe) was “arriving & waiting” a green flashing light & a bell that rang.
Zone 2 (yellow stripe) was uncasing & clearing. It had a yellow steady light & a loud buzzer.
Zone 3 (blue stripe) waiting red & blue alternating lights with a klaxon horn (with an uncased & racked bolt open rifle) for a firing point to open in zone 4, the actual firing line that had a siren & a strobe light.

To get to the range’s firing line you went through each of the zones, doing the functions that zone was set up for when its light & sound system went off. Each zones timing was independent of all the others so it was total chaos. Zone 1 might be “open” but so might zone 2 so you could go from 1 to 3 (as long as you did each function as you went by). Zone 1 & 3 might be open, but zone 2 closed so you couldn’t go by.

They eventually had the (inevitable) range accident & a boy scout who wasn’t even at the range was accidentally shot & died..

The range is closed permanently now.
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Old November 21, 2013, 02:45 PM   #68
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I am a part time range officer at a large county run range.
My experience has been that the majority of shooters are good folks with widely varying experience levels. That is to say, the novices USUALLY listen to and follow range rules and advice / suggestions. The serious long term shooters are pleased that the ROs are keeping an eye on the novices and usually will help the ROs and when asked will help the novices.
That said, there are always a few idiots. Most are young males with little experience or older males that think that they know what they are doing.
The WORST are young males that arrive with their young female "followers" or their novice "buddies". (When we see 4 or 5 young men / women on a single bench, we watch carefully.)
They already know it all and will not listen to suggestions or ideas on improvement. (as an aside, the "training" they are giving their female followers / buddies is something to observe from a distance.)
We range officers dread the weekends of a local gun show when novices arrive with a new firearm in a box and three boxes of ammo. They haven't a clue on how to load, unload, make safe, aim, or handle their new toy.
Dry firearms, trash & metal filings in the actions and more.
My advice for shooters to use a public range?
1, Don't go on weekends.
2, Don't go on weekends.
3, Avoid public ranges immediately after a gun show weekend.
4, Don't be shy about letting a fool know about his or (very rarely) her unsafe behavior.
5, Remember that the range officers goal is that everybody goes home with the same number of holes that they came with!
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Old November 22, 2013, 03:12 AM   #69
Brotherbadger
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Quote:
My advice for shooters to use a public range?
1, Don't go on weekends.
2, Don't go on weekends.
3, Avoid public ranges immediately after a gun show weekend.
4, Don't be shy about letting a fool know about his or (very rarely) her unsafe behavior.
5, Remember that the range officers goal is that everybody goes home with the same number of holes that they came with!
Great advice, i'd also recommend staying away just before Deer season starts. I went at 9:30 am this Wednesday(our rifle season starts Saturday), thinking it would be empty. NOPE. The place was packed with guys sighting in their rifles. I was there an hour, and was muzzle swept by 4 different shooters pulling their rifles out of their cases, or adjusting their scopes. The range officer was on top of it immediately(he honestly did an excellent job, all things considered), but it's still something i'd prefer to avoid.
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Old November 22, 2013, 09:25 AM   #70
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Quote:
I find it hard to believe that someone would shoot another person's target...
Actually, it's fairly easy to do if you're not focused or become distracted while aligning your sights. It's not at all unusual for even accomplished, experienced shooters at places like Camp Perry in the heat of competition for their bullets to land on their neighbor's target. And it's also not unusual for your best shots of the day to be the ones to find your neighbor's x's. Ask me how I know...
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Old November 24, 2013, 10:03 AM   #71
B.L.E.
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Quote:
Actually, it's fairly easy to do if you're not focused or become distracted while aligning your sights. It's not at all unusual for even accomplished, experienced shooters at places like Camp Perry in the heat of competition for their bullets to land on their neighbor's target. And it's also not unusual for your best shots of the day to be the ones to find your neighbor's x's. Ask me how I know...
I was shooting at a muzzleloading rifle match once and I was shooting at the correct target, but my spotting scope was focused on my neighbor's target. I would shoot and think I made a good shot because the sight picture was perfect when the shot went off and then look in my spotting scope to see a bullet hole somewhere in the white part of the target. I shot about three shots before I realized I my spotting scope was on someone else's target.

My biggest beef with most public ranges is their refusal to accomodate rifle shooters who want to shoot using positions other than bench rest. I don't need to sight in my rifle, I want to practice off hand shooting.
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