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Old November 2, 2013, 04:18 PM   #1
1hogfan83
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A sig in the future?

Ok so I ran into a little more money than I expected and a lot sooner too. My budget has grown a couple hundred dollars from $500ish to $900ish. I went to a gun store, this guy has pretty good prices, to see what we could do on some options. First I checked on the HK45c. That was a no go, $1000 w/o tax. Next we checked on the P30, I think it was in the high $800ish. Next we move on too my main question. The P229. Their are alot of options to consider so giving a price is hard. How carryable is the 229? I'm sure it can be but still, yall know what I mean. The CZ PCR is my third option. I didn't ask the guy but its well within the money range. Finding one maybe an issue. Thanks for any help.
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Old November 2, 2013, 09:02 PM   #2
Eric M.
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CZ is a fine gun but it is not in the same class as the Sig P229. Sig hands down. Not even close.


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Old November 2, 2013, 09:51 PM   #3
shuler13
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A sig in the future?

I have a Sig 226 and two CZs (75bd and 75 compact). Both are excellent guns, but I enjoy shooting the CZ full size the most. I'd head to the range and rent to get a better feel for your own preference.
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Old November 2, 2013, 10:17 PM   #4
ClydeFrog
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Sig p229/p229r....

Is it a regular or R(rail) model?
The P229 is extremely popular. A P229R is what the NCIS special agents, as seen on the hit TV series: NCIS use.
The US Secret Service & several LE agencies issue SIG P229s.
The M11a1 is a lot like the SIG P229. It's the compact sidearm in use with US troops. Pilots, aircrews, tankers, spec ops, MPI/CID agents, MI, etc.

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Old November 2, 2013, 11:08 PM   #5
TunnelRat
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As someone that owns both a P228 and a P30, the P229 is more carry-able.

BTW, the HK45c is one of most favorite pistols. If you get a chance to pick one up one day, go for it. They're just fun.
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Old November 2, 2013, 11:12 PM   #6
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+1 on the P229 R

Very carriable. I have one and love it. I use the rail for a 2 oz light / ballast.
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Old November 3, 2013, 12:01 AM   #7
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With the 229, their are a lot of options, rails, night sights, ECT, ECT. The base was $818, I think it was $880 with night sights. It goes up from there. With the P30 I would only want a safety. The CZ PCR just sounds great with great reviews. Whichever way I go it will be in 9mm. If I go Sig hopefully I can go without a rail. I got my glock running again. It just needed a good detail strip, a soak in dawn, and she was good as new. I'll put a light on the glock. I just wanted to know how any or all of these guns carry. I know people carry full size 1911's all day but the 229 is rather thick. More input is always welcome!
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Old November 3, 2013, 12:04 AM   #8
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I carry a P229 in 9mm and it is really pretty easy with a good belt and holster. I’d recommend a model that comes equipped with the SRT (short rest trigger) if they have one.
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Old November 3, 2013, 01:15 AM   #9
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What's your belt and holster setup? And does the SRT really make that big of a difference? Does it come as a kit that you can add on later or can you add on lighter springs to ease up the trigger weight?
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Old November 3, 2013, 01:47 AM   #10
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I use a 5.11 Trainer belt and a Milt Sparks VMII holster. I suppose it’s a little hard to say exactly how much difference the SRT really makes, but given the option I prefer it to the standard trigger. I’m pretty sure you can buy a kit and add it later or have SIG or a gunsmith do it.
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Old November 3, 2013, 08:34 AM   #11
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Heres my M11 A1 with my Desantis mini scabbard.

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Old November 3, 2013, 08:54 AM   #12
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More input is always welcome!
Get yourself -FAR- more gun for your money and quit shopping the new gun cases.

The market is bursting with pre-owned guns that have barely been used at all. It's a rare day anymore when I even consider the idea of buying a handgun NIB. Sure, there is some risk in buying a used gun. But here in the year 2013, there almost seems to be NEARLY as much risk in getting a problematic NEW gun.

I'd be shopping used and get a lot more gun for my $900.
Quote:
I got my glock running again. It just needed a good detail strip, a soak in dawn
I'm curious -- what does the Dawn do for you?
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Old November 3, 2013, 09:13 AM   #13
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I do not own a P229 anyone but I do own 2 P228s. They are very easy to carry in a proper holster on a proper belt. I carry my in a Milt Sparks VMII. It was my primary carry gun for years.



* Not my pic but used for illustration

The CZ vs the P229 is a fair comparison and back when new CZs were $400 and Sigs were $700 the CZ was hands down the better value. These days the gap has narrow a bit. The CZ will not have the same level of fit and finish but IMHO as working tool the two guns are on par with each other.

You can convert any current production P229 to a SRT. It is a few parts and a if you know how to detail strip the gun you can remove and replace the parts yourself. SRT vs not SRT is a preference IMHO. If you cut your teeth on classic P series guns it is unnecessary. If however you learned to shoot on guns with a shorter reset like Glocks or Gen 3 S&Ws the SRT might be preferred. I personally see no need I shoot the classic Sig trigger just fine and can transition between it, a Glock or a 1911 without issue.

I agree 100% that buying used is the was to go. New CZs are running close to $600 and new Sigs are close to $800. They can be found used for under $500 and under $600 respectively.

For example this is a sub $550 used Sigs.



Here is also a pic of my CZ P01 which actually replaced the Sig as a primary carry gun.

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Old November 3, 2013, 09:35 AM   #14
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While I like the SRT, I don't think it's essential. I recently picked up another old P228. Shooting it at the range yesterday I didn't notice the rest being a problem. Learn the reset on the gun and the rest is butter.

As for buying used, yes! SIGs last a long time, and with the initial cost most owners take decent care of them. As one caveat to what WVsig said, older P228s are starting to dry up a bit. They can still be found easy, but the Swiss police trade in models that had great prices are mostly gone now. I was able to find my P228 for $600 and was pretty happy for that (it also came with 3 Mec-Gar mags and the original case and manual).
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Old November 3, 2013, 09:43 AM   #15
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Quote:
The P229 is extremely popular. A P229R is what the NCIS special agents, as seen on the hit TV series: NCIS use.
The US Secret Service & several LE agencies issue SIG P229s.
The M11a1 is a lot like the SIG P229. It's the compact sidearm in use with US troops. Pilots, aircrews, tankers, spec ops, MPI/CID agents, MI, etc.
Not exactly correct.

NCIS used to use the P228 I believe that they still have some of those in service even if the TV show has them holding P229. New issue are P229 with DAK triggers and are chambered in 40 S&W. IIRC

The P229 is a very popular handgun with LEO and other agencies but not as popular as Glock and M&Ps are gaining a lot of ground.

The M11a1 is nothing but a new production P228 which has a a stainless steel slide, phosphate coated internals & a SRT. It has not been actually adopted by anyone. Sig created it in hopes of have it adopted by people who were using the P228/M11 but to date no one has accepted it as a replaced within the military. The UID label on it is for marketing purposes only.This is Cohen marketing BS at its finest. It is essentially a P229-1 with a few "upgrades". Phosphated internals so it will not rust when you are CCWing at the beach and forget to take it off before you go surfing. It has the SRT and night sights standard. It has full height slide serrations and a slimmer slide profile more like the P228 than the P229.

This does not make the M11a1 a bad gun. It is for many a desirble setup but lets not buy into the "Cohen Sig" false marketing hype.
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Old November 3, 2013, 09:47 AM   #16
WVsig
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As for buying used, yes! SIGs last a long time, and with the initial cost most owners take decent care of them. As one caveat to what WVsig said, older P228s are starting to dry up a bit. They can still be found easy, but the Swiss police trade in models that had great prices are mostly gone now. I was able to find my P228 for $600 and was pretty happy for that (it also came with 3 Mec-Gar mags and the original case and manual).
I agree that the flood of Swiss guns from FFLs are gone but there are tons of P228s out there. They can be found for the right price if you look around have a good transfer dealer and have cash to pay the moment you see one. The Swiss guns are the most recent flood of cheap used Sigs. There was a time CDNN had thousands upon thousands being sold for $400. CDNN was mentioned so often on the Sig forum it became known as the "company who shall not be named". LOL

All I am saying is that no matter what gun it is no matter what the market is you can buy guns a lot less than retail by buying used from some FFLs but especially private sellers.
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Old November 3, 2013, 10:29 AM   #17
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I hadn't really considered used until I thought about going to cabelas to handle some guns. Every other gun in their used case is either a SIG or glock. I looked on arms list but not much luck. As for the dawn, it will eat through pretty much anything, grease and grime included. You should have seen the tuber ware when I was done. I put the parts in there, cleaned my HK and my Beretta. When I came back to the glock it was pretty nasty. I dried them off and looked good as new.
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Old November 3, 2013, 03:01 PM   #18
loose_holster_dan
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i like both the p228/9 and pcr. i find that the pcr is less comfortable to carry. more sharp edges to press into my spare tire. i too am a huge fan of the srt trigger. it takes some getting used to, but once you do, it's sweet.

i really hate ergos on all hk's but the p7 and p30. the hk45c and usp compact feel like bricks and the p2000sk is hard to hold onto and very snappy.
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Old November 3, 2013, 03:04 PM   #19
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i really hate ergos on all hk's but the p7 and p30
Given that HK doesn't have a lot of models, isn't that kind of like saying, "I hate all Fords except for the Focus, F-150 and Explorer"? Or are you talking about the USP series? I find the P2000 and HK45c to be very comparable to the P30, sans the texture and finger grooves.
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Old November 3, 2013, 06:51 PM   #20
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Ok, I made the trip to cabelas and the used cases were full of........239's! I go over to the new case and they have great looking M11-A1! I pick it up, fondel, dry fire, repeat. It has the SRT which I can tell no difference in whatsoever. The big smash is that they wanted $1000 bucks for it. That's the same quote as the local guy gave me for the HK45c. I thought its not THAT big of a deal, for heavens sakes they have the FNXs at $620. I'm thinking that I can go and buy this for maybe? You guys tell me, insight? If I don't go this way I might buy bare bones 229 and add some night sights. You guys have a fav brand?
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Old November 3, 2013, 07:03 PM   #21
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It has the SRT which I can tell no difference in whatsoever.
Really? You should notice the difference in the reset pretty easily.

Nothing wrong with a barebones 229. Also nothing wrong with scouring online for a better deal than the gunshop .
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Old November 3, 2013, 07:17 PM   #22
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I held two side by side. A 229 in .40 and the srt. The one thing I did notice is it bit the hell out my finger.
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Old November 3, 2013, 07:23 PM   #23
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But you can't notice the difference in reset by just holding them. To test the reset, pull the trigger to dry fire the weapon. Keep the trigger held back with the trigger finger. Now actuate the slide rearward, (simulating the gun being fired) and let the slide go back forward. Then slowly release the trigger. You should feel, and hear, a slight click indicating that the trigger is reset and thhe gun able to fire again. Dropping the magazine before beginning the process makes it easier.

As for the getting bit, that's where we get into SIG's somewhat confusing naming system. The thin trigger you noticed is actually the Short (Reduced) Reach Trigger. It's meant for smaller hands to make is easier for those to pull the trigger (I don't have big hands and I don't find the reach long in the first place). It doesn't affect the reset by itself. I also find it tends to pinch my finger, so I prefer the older, fatter trigger style. The Short Reset Trigger package replaces internal parts, allowing for the shorter reset.
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Old November 3, 2013, 08:31 PM   #24
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P229 is short and can be carried easily. It IS a chubby gun, with a big fat slide. For that reason I actually had a harder time carrying it than a Commander, CCO, or P220.
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Old November 3, 2013, 11:54 PM   #25
Shadi Khalil
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Re: A sig in the future?

Out of the guns you listed in your OP, I'd go with the 229. You did mention running into a mess of 239's which might be worth a second look. I love my 239 abs have been carrying it on and off for 8 years now.
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