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Old November 2, 2013, 02:17 PM   #1
BarnardP
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Do You Weigh Cases?

As the title asks do the target shooters on here weigh cases?

If so could I ask you to explain why please?

I can understand the logic behind weighing bullets but why people weigh cases escapes me.

Thanks,

Mick
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Old November 2, 2013, 03:23 PM   #2
F. Guffey
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BernardP, I weigh cases, first I keep cases together by head stamp meaning I sort by head stamp, when I get a box of 20 those 20 cases stay with the box.

The saddest words of verse and or pen is “Oh What might have been”.

when I load on a progressive press I use a lock out die when loading pistol and I use a powder die when loading bottle neck cases. If I know the weight of the bullet, and the primer and weight of the powder what good does all that information do me if I do not know the weight of the case.

Look up the work Kaboom, or do a search, “OH what might have been”, the blame game, somewhere in there is the Glock, then the double charge or the no charge followed with a full charge and the back of the pistol being rendered scrap and someone wanting their money back, without a clue as to what they did to destroy a pistol.

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Old November 2, 2013, 04:14 PM   #3
precision_shooter
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Quote:
Look up the work Kaboom, or do a search, “OH what might have been”, the blame game, somewhere in there is the Glock, then the double charge or the no charge followed with a full charge and the back of the pistol being rendered scrap and someone wanting their money back, without a clue as to what they did to destroy a pistol.
And what does that have to do with weighing cases?

I see no relevance between weighing cases and "kaboom"... I don't weigh any cases. A difference of 10gr between the lightest and heaviest of cases is not going to cause any significant changes in accuracy for 99% of shooters and definitely won't lead to a kaboom.
Not paying attention to what you are doing when loading can possibly lead to a double charge of powder, but most rifle cases require enough powder that a double charge would over fill the case. Using the wrong powder, pistol powder in rifle cartridge, can cause over pressure...
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Old November 2, 2013, 05:40 PM   #4
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For my most accurate rifles, I do weigh my brass and sort into groups. A very good post that covers a logic to use in sorting case weights can be found here.
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Old November 2, 2013, 05:49 PM   #5
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For my matches I use Lapua Brass and still weigh them and sort. For plinking not so much. Take the 223 for example. Your average one deprimed and sized comes in around 91 to 93 gns. Now take a military one--Deprimed most will come in at 98 to 107 gns. Take one of each case and dump 25 gn Varget in to each. Look inside case under light?. You will see what I mean. And yes to those that are wondering-That is after primer pocket has been uniformed on military load
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Old November 2, 2013, 06:40 PM   #6
William T. Watts
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I ran across several hundred once fired Winchester 30/06 cases with primer that were sorted 192.3/193.6grs, I have several thousand once fired 30/06 R-P cases that I never got around to selling that are sorted to a + or - .5gr. I will weigh cases but that is as far as I will go weighing components. Is it necessary, probably not, I feel more comfortable doing it plus I have the time! One other thing I should have mentioned it makes it easy to find a round if it has been over or under charged!! William

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Old November 2, 2013, 06:42 PM   #7
BigJimP
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No, I don't weigh any cases.....and I reload ( for handguns ) a mix of whatever cases I have....for several calibers from 9mm to .44 Mag..

I have a powder check die on my Dillon 650 ....that gives me the extra safety factor to ensure my powder drops are within spec.../ I want all my powder drops within 0.1 grain....

Weighing a case - after its loaded ...isn't necessary / and I'm not convinced you'll be able to tell much if you do...
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Old November 2, 2013, 07:59 PM   #8
WWWJD
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Simply put, for a handful of cases that have the same external dimension, a variation in case weight can also mean a variation in internal case volume (thickness of material). This will result in a variation of velocity and pressure.
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Old November 2, 2013, 09:25 PM   #9
Valornor
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*BigJimP

I'm like you and try to keep all my loads with in 0.1gr but on a volume measure progressive I've found it's a pretty tall task. I'll usually accept a 0.2 to 0.4 margin depending on the caliber I am loading for. I don't typically load for small volume cases and I know 0.5gr can be the difference on a starting load and a max load for some pistols. Anything that I want or requires that sort of accuracy I'll weigh every charge.

As it's been said before variations in case wall thickness can be detected by weighing the cases. This is really only needed for working up precision rifles loads, while I am sure you'l get case variation in pistol calibers, most pistols aren't going to shoot better then 2 or 3MOA and the precaution is usually wasted.

As for me, I do not weight cases for my .308 or .223. However I'll uniform the flash holes and primer pockets on the .308. Since I only have to do it once in the life of the case I figure it's is probably worth the time. I have and load far to many .223 to make it feasible.

If I was going for ultra precision, you'd bet I'd weight every case.
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Old November 2, 2013, 09:28 PM   #10
Bart B.
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I weigh cases for target shooting at 600 yards or further to a 1% spread in weight. About a 2.3 grain spread for my 30 caliber magnum ammo with cases about 230 grains in weight; less for .308 Win. ammo. 2 grains of case weight difference is about the same as 1/10th grain change in powder charge weight; not very significant in my opinion.

The best arsenal .30-06 match ammo with metered powder charges and a 5 grain spread in case weight shot 1/3 inch at 100 yards from good rifles in its heyday and 1 MOA at 600. As good lots of commercial .308 Win match ammo will shoot under 1/3 MOA at 100 yards and 2/3 MOA at 600 yards in well built rifles with their 3 to 4 grain weight spread, I wouldn't bother weighing cases until you shoot your stuff no worse than 1/2 MOA at 100 yards.

A dozen or so other things are more important than case weight. Near the top of the list is ensuring the bullets are a few ten-thousandths larger than the barrel's groove diameter. Exact charge weights of powder's way down the list for targets 600 yards away or less. Beyond that, a 2/10ths grain spread is about fifth on the list.

Never saw any improvement in accuracy with uniformed flash holes. Reamed them to a uniform diameter and chamfered them. Accuracy stayed the same.
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Old November 4, 2013, 01:23 AM   #11
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I don't, but most of my reloads are only for target/plinking, so I'm not obsessive about them.
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Old November 7, 2013, 04:33 PM   #12
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Quote:
BarnardP said:I can understand the logic behind weighing bullets but why people weigh cases escapes me.
The logic behind weighing brass was based on the assumption that if cases weighed the same amount they would have the same volume, alas this a false assumption, but it makes some people feel good. A lot like urinating on oneself in a dark suit. Nobody will probably notice but it makes them feel nice and warm.
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Old November 7, 2013, 04:53 PM   #13
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I do not make it a habit to weigh cases. I also load .223 Rem with mixed head stamps. I load all with the same charge. I do not weigh my bullets either. I get sub half inch 5 shot groups at 100 yards with a Savage Mod 12 FSSV with the bipod, and bag under the rear of the stock. Out of a Lead Sled I get one tiny hole. I worked a load that is not sensitive to case capacity.

I load with one head stamp for my .221 Fireball CZ due to the fact that it is the only brass I can get for it without reforming .223 Rem cases which I have done, and no longer do as I have a good supply of brass that all I have to do is Size, prime, charge, then seat the bullet. Groups are one tiny hole at 100 yards with a Lead Slead, half inch or better with the bipod, and a bag under the rear of the stock.

I will not knock those that do. Many get great groups so the pay off is there for them. For me I did not get the pay off to pain in the rear pay off to make it worth the effort for me. I will also admit to being lazy enough that it would have had to be huge pay off to make it worth it for me to do.
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Old November 7, 2013, 05:17 PM   #14
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Let me start by saying I'm not a sub MOA 1,000 Yd precision shooter.
But I did try a test a few years back to see if as a target shooter I'd actually gain anything with my equipment by weighing & grading individual components as part of a project to see how much accuracy I could wring out of a particular rifle that I was using out to 600yds.

Here's what the results looked like:

Code:
Note: '55 Faz seating OAL to contact lands. (Max OAL = 3.075)			3.075								
150Gr Hornady Interlock SP (# 3120) = 3.040.			3.040	0.035							
							
These are the "match" loads.			BULLET								
CALIBER	CASE	PRIMER	Mfr.		TYPE	Gr.	POWDER		GRAINS		
.303 Brit	PPU	cci 200	Hornady		FMJBT	174	3031		35.5		
DATE	STRING	SHOT	VEL.	LOW	HIGH	AVG.	E.S.	S.D.	A.D.	GROUP	
03/20/10	1	1	2237	2181	2238	2217	57	20.6	16.0	1.5" (5)	
03/20/10	1	2	2229	NOTES							
03/20/10	1	3	2181	These are the "match" loads. Primer pockets uniformed, flash holes reamed, cases & bullets weight matched, Powder trickled.

Development from earlier 34.0Gr. Load. Aiming for 2250FPS	
						
03/20/10	1	4	2183								
03/20/10	1	5	2208								
03/20/10	1	6	2223								
03/20/10	1	7	2238								
03/20/10	1	8	2223								
03/20/10	1	9	2221								
03/20/10	1	10	2234								

											
These are the "Standard" loads			BULLET								
CALIBER	CASE	PRIMER	Mfr.		TYPE	Gr.	POWDER		GRAINS		
.303 Brit	PPU	cci 200	Hornady		FMJBT	174	3031		35.5		
DATE	STRING	SHOT	VEL.	LOW	HIGH	AVG.	E.S.	S.D.	A.D.	GROUP	
03/20/10	1	1	2186	36	2267	2219	81	29.7	23.3	5" (5)	
03/20/10	1	2	2235	NOTES							
03/20/10	1	3	2190	These are the "Standard" loads. Batch loaded on Dillon. Misc cases, misc bullets, primer pockets cleaned only, charges dropped from measure.

Development from earlier 34.0Gr. Load. Aiming for 2250FPS
							
03/20/10	1	4	2213								
03/20/10	1	5	2212								
03/20/10	1	6	2186								
03/20/10	1	7	2213								
03/20/10	1	8	2217								
03/20/10	1	9	2226								
03/20/10	1	10	2266
I'm thinking that as the outside dimensions must be the same (or darn close to it) that weight is a pretty good indication of thickness, & so by inference, capacity. That in turn is pressure which creates velocity.

Oh the "target" loads were noticeably more accurate as well.
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Old November 7, 2013, 05:20 PM   #15
Bart B.
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Mick says
Quote:
I can understand the logic behind weighing bullets but why people weigh cases escapes me.
I have weighed .308 Win cases from 149 grains to over 180 grains. That requires a 3 grain change in charge weight to keep about the same pressure level going from heavy to light.
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Old November 7, 2013, 05:23 PM   #16
wogpotter
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I'm with you on that! Take a look back here I did some comparisons & if nothing else you can see how the brands vary in consistency, weight, volume & so on.
http://thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=535292
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Old November 7, 2013, 05:59 PM   #17
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For pistols, never weighed them.

For rifles, out to 300 yards, does not make a difference to me.

For long range, 600 to 1000 yards, weight sorting is a good thing. What weight ranges to establish become the difficult issue to decide.

And for maximum loads, case weight makes a huge difference.
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Old November 7, 2013, 06:45 PM   #18
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When shooting rifle comp, I liked using brass of the same lot and yes I did weigh cases. I also weighed and sorted bullets by weight.
I think all the advantages have been mentioned.
IMHO it makes a great deal of difference when dial calipers are measuring and comparing holes with perhaps a couple thousands of an inch in difference..
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Old November 8, 2013, 02:57 AM   #19
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FWIW I did not weigh my cases and had a max spread of 7fps between 10 five round strings using a CED M2. So in 50 rounds shot within a few hours the largest difference I had in any string was 7fps. A friend who has been reloading much longer than me suggested weighing cases and he states his max spread is 4 fps.

Edit: I should add that I was using a brand new box of hornady match cases. So that could've helped.
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