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Old November 1, 2013, 10:27 AM   #1
NUKE HUNTER
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dummy load for muzzleloader

this may sound weird and cruel but my sister-in-laws husband kind of invited himself to hunt deer with me this year. all hes bringing is his clothes, i gotta lend him everything else and set a ladder stand for him at his request. its starting to **** me off so im thinking of teaching him a lesson by loading my muzzleloader with something other then a bullet. my question is, what do i load my sabot with that gives the same sound and feel that a bullet would but not hurt an animal?
thanks
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Old November 1, 2013, 10:43 AM   #2
RedBowTies88
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I loaded 12 gauge shells with glitter once to joke with a friend.

I made sure we was facing the wind too.
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Old November 1, 2013, 11:21 AM   #3
DoubleDeuce 1
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The glitter thing is funny! For a rifle, I would be careful about loading something that might damage the barrel. You could try using just a cardboard wad over the charge. Cut one out of an old cereal box or the back of a writing tablet. Just make sure the barrel is clear when you re-load...
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Old November 1, 2013, 11:24 AM   #4
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There has to be a "known' load. Look at all the war reinactors. They have to be using something.
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Old November 1, 2013, 11:52 AM   #5
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I don't get it. How does that teach him a lesson? Best way to handle pushy people is to tell them, "No". Lesson learned. What would be your plan if he actually gets a shot off? Tell him he must have missed? He'll just want to go out again, and try again. What if he doesn't get a shot off? He'll just want to go out again, and try again. Really want him out there with you all season? Jokes on you my friend.
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Old November 1, 2013, 12:08 PM   #6
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noelf2 to keep the peace in the family, i like my wife, i cant just tell him no. so if he "misses" then he probably wont want to hunt with me again.
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Old November 1, 2013, 01:47 PM   #7
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It does sound weird and cruel.




I like it!
On the other hand, what are the odds that he would enjoy himself and possibly end up with his own gear?

Of course, the "invited himself" part could indicate a couple things. If he is a thorn in your side, I could certainly understand. Of course having him "help" with the cleaning and such could certainly dissuade him from inviting himself in the future.
I find it best not to interfere with other folks business, particularly with regards to family (and yet here I am), so you have the best answer to that part in your own head.

I second the reenactor suggestion for the info you seek.
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Old November 1, 2013, 03:10 PM   #8
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Ah, really not worth doing; but ...... !!!

I once participated in a one-gun salute, during a flag raising ceremony at a Boy Scout event. I had been teaching M/L's and they asked me if I would do it. Without giving it much thought, I agreed and then wondered what to load. ...

I did 50grns of Pyrodex and then jammed down a good wad of aluminum foil, nice and tight. On cue, I fired the round during a hand-salute and then everyone was watching the bits of foil floating down. Smoke was good, bark was good and It really turned out pretty neat. ....

Be Safe !!!
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Old November 1, 2013, 03:34 PM   #9
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With black powder, you don't need any kind of wad to make a BANG!

The re-enactors just pour the charge down the barrel and fire; if they are a distance from the "enemy" they will just empty the powder from the paper cartridge (no bullet) down the barrel then ram the paper down. But where the paper could strike someone or set a fire, they just dump the powder, bounce the stock on the ground to settle the powder down, cap and fire.

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Old November 1, 2013, 05:11 PM   #10
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Just a normal powder charge by itself sounds really weak. You need to at least double it to get a decent bang out of it. Best thing you can do is load a live round and if he gets a deer make him clean it by himself. Coach him if you must but make him do all the work.
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Old November 1, 2013, 07:35 PM   #11
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all good ideas guys, thanks I forgot about the re-enactor loads.
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Old November 1, 2013, 11:18 PM   #12
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The glitter mixed in the powder is a good idea.

Different colored sparkles would be pretty flyin thru the woods.
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Old November 2, 2013, 12:28 PM   #13
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Any well run reenactment allows NOTHING down the barrel but the powder - no paper, no wads - NUTHIN! In fact, ramrods are left in camp to prevent such a thing - and the possibility of sending a ramrod down the field. Even a felt wad over a powder charge in a revolver can cause damage if some "yokel" decides to do it and aim his weapon at a person and let it go - the obvious is eye damage not to mention the possibility of the wad entering soft tissue - lead, paper or felt - it's a projectile.

If he doesn't have anything to hunt with . . . I'd question how "good" of a hunter he is. I'd be more worried about tying him up in the tree stand to make sure he doesn't fall out.
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Old November 2, 2013, 07:10 PM   #14
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Really, just powder? Never tried it but I thought BP had to be compressed. If it burnt, wouldn't it just go FOOSH instead of BANG? Hmmm. Gonna get out the hawken tomorrow and try it.
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Old November 2, 2013, 07:36 PM   #15
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Doyle,

we of the 14 IN Volunteers used a tightly packed double charge in nitrated paper wrapped in thread. Drop it down the boar and give it a good hit with the ram rod.


KABLOOM..................


Now of course that is for parades and such..and is much better than what we did for reenactments. For that JAMES K is dead on. In reenactments you just dump and bump that rammer is AB-SO-LUTELY NEVER to enter the bore of a musket. Way to many people have been seriously messed up for nothing more than a hastily forgotten ram rod


Not that I would ever do this to someone whom I was taking hunting. Mostly because I would never allow someone to enter the hunting field, that either couldn't load their own weapon....and/or know the difference between the two loads. No matter how rump hurt they, or their family would be.
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Old November 2, 2013, 09:26 PM   #16
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Yes the reenactors dump the charge down the bore, bump it, to settle it, cap it and fire.

That being said, with revolvers and smith carbines, they compress dry cream of wheat over the powder charge. (The smith carbine is a break open breach loader that used brass or rubber (yes rubber) cartridges that were set off by a musket cap.)if you load it for him, you could pack some cream of wheat over the charge to give a little more resistance than just a paper wad.

But that breaks one of the cardinal rules of muzzle loaders.
NEVER FIRE ONE YOU DIDN'T LOAD, OR SUPERVISE THE LOADING OF!

I for one am glad I don't have friends like you, wanting to make me look foolish, or inept.
Maybe he just lacks the social skills to ask nicely if you would take him muzzle loader hunting..

We were recently granted custody of my 14 year old nephew, he is always saying "you gotta take me to school for tutoring" or "you gotta take take me to such and such" we respond with" all I HAVE to do is, pay taxes and die.."

We re trying to teach him to ask, can you take me, or May I go to such and such.


You never know, he may get to liking muzzle loaders.

He may have a hidden urge to learn how they did it in the old days.
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Old November 3, 2013, 11:07 AM   #17
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Amen to that !!!

Quote:
Not that I would ever do this to someone whom I was taking hunting. Mostly because I would never allow someone to enter the hunting field, that either couldn't load their own weapon....and/or know the difference between the two loads. No matter how rump hurt they, or their family would be.
Amen to that and that should be the spirit of this thread. I have been to camps where some of the other guys wanted to borrow too much of my stuff. Also felt obliged to field-dress there deer. Then you have others will only use their stuff ....

Be Prepared and;
Be Safe !!!
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Old November 3, 2013, 12:52 PM   #18
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Quote:
Any well run reenactment allows NOTHING down the barrel but the powder - no paper, no wads -NUTHIN! In fact, ramrods are left in camp to prevent such a thing - and the possibility of sending a ramrod down the field. Even a felt wad over a powder chargein a revolvercan cause damage if some "yokel" decides to do it and aim his weapon at a person and let it go - the obvious is eye damage not to mention the possibility of the wad entering soft tissue - lead, paper or felt -it's a projectile.
Sounds like a good plan to me. I've seen a flex rod go through a one inch sheet of plywood and stick in a fir tree.

The proverbial dum dum...

Double charge and a wad, done. A little cruel... I like it. But it will probably backfire on you!

Personally I just make the hunt as miserable as possible. For instance... on my property there's a massive cherry tree and most of the year there are so many bees in it you can both see and hear it move from several hundred feet away.

That's where I would put his tree stand.

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Old November 3, 2013, 08:37 PM   #19
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Growing up, in the 70's, we went camping every weekend of each season as it opened.
Opening weekend of dove, camping started Friday night, went to sunday.
Same for bow season, squirrell, and deer gun season too.

My dad had several friends who were non hunters, but were in the same ham radio club, they would come out and camp, they either pitched thir own tent, or slept in their on cars or station wagons.

They came to enjoy the friendship, and family time that we all shared.

While we were hunting, one or 2 would hang around camp, enjoying the time in the woods, their own way of enjoying nature.
Once or twice one of them expressed an interest in trying to actually hunt, they bought their own license, but everything else was provided willfully by my dad.

He would loan them a gun, ammo, hunters orange, and put them on his best spot, where they would be most likely to bag a deer.

Some were successful, some were not, some just stayed around camp the next time, but one enjoyed it so much, he bagged a nice buck on his first time out. He was hooked, by the next time he had his own gun, clothes, and assorted equipment, my dad took the time to teach him how to track deer, understand their habits, their rut, and other aspects of hunting, and Danny went on to become a very avid hunter.

He may be a PITA, but at least give him a sporting chance..
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Old November 4, 2013, 06:08 AM   #20
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old BP trick

you can do the same as the cannoneers do. Flour wrapped in tin foil. If your bore is .58 inch in diameter , make your blank .58 inch long. makes a realistic recoiling effect and has enough pressure to actually burn the powder. But just dissipates after it leaves the barrel. But remember , all blanks are dangerous at close range.
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Old November 4, 2013, 08:04 AM   #21
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nuke hunter

we are here to teach firearms safety, and sportsmanship! I have close to the same problem up here! But he has his own gear and weapons, I have been teaching him all I can, and opening day is soon upon us! I'll put him in my favorite spot and move to another and wait for the boom!
I'm sure field dressing will be his demise! I might get a free deer out of it!
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Old November 4, 2013, 11:39 AM   #22
NUKE HUNTER
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psychopuppy1.... too funny.thing is i dont want to baby sit year after year.
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Old November 4, 2013, 12:38 PM   #23
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Quote:
Doyle,

we of the 14 IN Volunteers
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Old November 4, 2013, 07:27 PM   #24
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robhof

I helped out a newbe a few years ago and indeed, field dressing was his downfall, but I did indeed get extra venison for the freezer out of the deal.
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Old November 5, 2013, 07:26 AM   #25
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the way I see it, ifn he makes it past field dressing, he's on his own after that!
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