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Old October 31, 2013, 01:42 PM   #1
Nordeste
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Remington UMC. Issues?.

Hi all:

A friend of mine, who happens to be a shift supervisor in the local police, has experienced a few issues with this ammunition. Primers not detonating (a few), a couple of rounds with no primer at all... but the other day they had a squib during training.

The ammo in question is the Remington UMC semi-jacketed, leadless. The one that leaves bullet's lead tip exposed.

I'd like to know what your experience is with this ammunition. I had heard of problems with primers and bullet set back when chambering related to this ammo. This friend of mine is concerned, since this ammo is what they're being issued at work. He wants to send a report to the higher-ups and every bit of information will be useful.

Inputs appreciated.
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Old October 31, 2013, 01:43 PM   #2
TunnelRat
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I would buy anything Federal, Winchester, or Tul before I would use Remington UMC.
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Old October 31, 2013, 01:51 PM   #3
Nordeste
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Thanks, TunnelRat. Looks like the other alternatives handy are Fiocchi or Magtech, semi jacketed in both cases as the Municipality doesn't feel like issuing hollow-points (too harmful for the bad guys, you know?, who cares about cops or bystanders?).

Did you have any bad experience with it?. Or what is this Remington's bad reputation based upon?.
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Old October 31, 2013, 02:19 PM   #4
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Fiocchi is excellent quality ammo. Magtech is okay, I find the loadings to be a bit inconsistent.
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Old October 31, 2013, 02:23 PM   #5
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What's the beef with UMC?
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Old October 31, 2013, 03:03 PM   #6
thedudeabides
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I haven't had serious issue with just about any ammo brand. Some are really filthy, but I haven't experienced one to be significantly worse than an other. The recent O'bama panic meant that I was feeding my 1911s everything from aluminum Blazer, to S. Korean PMC, WWB, Magtech, Aguila, Remmington, Wally World Federal, factory reman (Atlanta, Freedom) and even... Wolf and Tula.

The only consistencies I've found was that WWB 115gr 9mm is seriously underpowered, PMC is so filthy that I swear they use black powder, Tula doesn't always go "bang" when the primer is struck, and aluminum case Blazer can sometimes get stuck in some older, crappier mags.
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Old October 31, 2013, 03:09 PM   #7
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It is dirty but has a decent rep for functionality. It is on the lower end of Remington loadings.
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Old October 31, 2013, 03:41 PM   #8
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Minor Remark on My Part: I don't know how you load a magazine or a revolver and not notice a round not having a primer. (other than rimfire)
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Old October 31, 2013, 05:11 PM   #9
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I think knowing the caliber and bullet weight might be of significance. I mostly shoot .45 Auto, and before I started reloading I usually bought Winchester USA because that's what Wal-Mart usually had on the shelf. On occasion, though, I've bought Remington UMC in .45 Auto, 230grain FMJ. Never a problem. Wal-Mart also used to have a lot of Remington UMC in .40 S&W, for some reason, in 250-round value packs. I've also never experienced any problems with that.

I think your friend's department needs to have a serious discussion with Remington. I suspect a bad batch. That's not good if it's just plinking ammo, but it's intolerable if it's being issued as duty ammo.
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Old October 31, 2013, 05:38 PM   #10
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I heard that it caused broken extracrors from a buddy but I've shot and bought a ton in 9mm and a little bit in 45 w no prob but wondered if this is an issue generally speaking.
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Old October 31, 2013, 08:12 PM   #11
Nordeste
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lamarw:

They did notice the primer missing before they loaded it in the mag , but I guess their faces were pretty much like

Aguila Blanca:

I seriously doubt there's anyone at Remington who can be contacted, officially, here in Spain. AFAIK, there is an importer, and perhaps that's all. Anyway, it's worth giving it a try. As you say, it's intolerable that this happens in duty ammo. It's 124 grains 9 mm, leadless Remington UMC. The one in the green box.

In my LE agency we are issued Fiocchi. Only problem is that it is NATO spec and it's hot as hell. A range buddy and myself run some through the chrono and got speeds in excess of 1200, sometimes 1240 ft/sec, out of a Beretta 92FS. I disassembled a couple of the cartridges and found they were 115 grains, with some 6 grains of powder inside.

CBC Magtech is what I used to shoot before I started handloading my own. A bit hotter than the Remington UMC, and dirtier too. The Remington got speeds in the range of 1100 ft out the same Beretta, the Magtech ranged from 1120 to 1150. I'm sure that Magtech has changed the formulation of their powder. Now it's much cleaner and the shot feels snappier, also the bullet travels faster (make that some 20 to 30 ft/sec).
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Old October 31, 2013, 08:31 PM   #12
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Asturias patria querida

Primers missing,bullet setbacks,squibs.It all sounds like a bad batch of reloads,
in any case they must have sent them all over there because I haven't seen
Remington UMC ammo in this neck of the woods for well over a year.
I only shoot .45 ACP pistol balls but I never had any trouble with them,no
complaints here.
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Old October 31, 2013, 09:25 PM   #13
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of the couple 250 packs of 45 I've purchased in the last couple of years I had one small issue and one big one
small issue, a bad primer...no detonation
BIG ISSUE, in my pack of 45acp I received a single round of 40 s&w mixed in.
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Old October 31, 2013, 10:23 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nordeste
I seriously doubt there's anyone at Remington who can be contacted, officially, here in Spain. AFAIK, there is an importer, and perhaps that's all. Anyway, it's worth giving it a try. As you say, it's intolerable that this happens in duty ammo. It's 124 grains 9 mm, leadless Remington UMC. The one in the green box.
My apologies -- I didn't recognize your location. I can see that would make things difficult.

That said, the department involved should be made to understand that Remington UMC is NOT duty-grade ammunition. It is bottom-of-the-barrel, generic, plinking/practice grade ammo ONLY. Regardless of location, for any agency or department to be issuing that stuff for duty ammunition is simply irresponsible. (At least, in my opinion.)
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Old November 1, 2013, 03:20 AM   #15
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I run UMC fmj and WWB fmj for plinking in my 9mm Lugers and haven't had a problem. My CZ SP-01 Tactical likes Winchester Silvertip HP's and my Stoeger Cougar prefers UMC jhp so that is what I use for SD.
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Old November 1, 2013, 05:02 AM   #16
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Does anyone else think PMC is dirty ?? I just got a good deal on some 124 gr 9mm fmj's. Maybe there was a reson for it.
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Old November 1, 2013, 05:28 AM   #17
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I don't buy it regularly because 100 round WWB costs less/bullet than the 250 UMC packs - at least at the local wal-mart.
However, I've bought it several times and never had any issues like those.
I figure 1-2 ammo issues per 1000 or so rounds is acceptable for bulk stuff, but that many issues in a box sounds suspect.
There was a case around here a few years back of a guy packaging his own reloads as factory and selling them at gun shows. So it might be hijinks.

It also might just be a horrible statistical anomaly.
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Old November 1, 2013, 12:02 PM   #18
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I shot 600 rounds of PMC .45 ACP FMJ out at Front Sight's 4-Day Defensive Handgun Course last summer with no issues whatsoever. Accurate, reliable, but no dirtier than anything else I've tried (Federal & Winchester plus a lot of handloads with either, Win 231 or Win WST). It's good ammunition in my experience. Rod
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Old November 1, 2013, 04:32 PM   #19
Nordeste
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So, it looks like even though there have been some issues, they're not that common. The conclusion is that it's not recommendable for duty use.

PMC, OTOH, has a good reputation over here. Never heard it was cleaner or dirtier than other brands, but I did hear their brass is durable and good quality. Good for reloading.

Polyphemus... That got a laugh . I've had a few American friends visiting me over here and surely they got some first hand information of our culture and traditions. Looks like you got some of that, too .
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