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Old October 31, 2013, 03:58 AM   #1
1wise1
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Reload for Every day carry

Anybody reloading for their carry weapon? I'm looking for a good price for 9mm jacketed hollow-point bullets. I know, good price and bullets is an oxymoron... how about a kinda' good price.
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Old October 31, 2013, 07:02 AM   #2
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I reload for practice, but not for carry. It does not seem that reloading for carry would look good for someone who may have to go to court and explain why they were so eager to create a round that was used to stop someone. It may look more aggressive than defensive.

I only use factory ammo to carry, and keep some of what I carry in my safe in the original packaging so they can be used to prove that what was used was really the factory ammo that I claimed it was.
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Old October 31, 2013, 07:03 AM   #3
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The subject of Carrying handloads gets brought up more than a few times a month.

There are two sides to this coin and those on both sides will stand firm in their belief that they are right.

It's best to do what you think is best. If you are comfortable that your handloads are perfect and will go bang each and every time, then go for it. If you are afraid that you may get put in prison for life because to defended yourself with handloaded ammo, then shoot factory ammo.

I only shoot handloads.

When searching for a SD bullets understand that Cheap JHP bullets are not really SD bullets. The JHP design is to improve accuracy, not to expand with exceptional Terminal Performance.

I good SD bullet will cost $$. Look here, these are under the SD heading.

http://www.midwayusa.com/find?sortby...ensionid=20549

Last edited by steve4102; October 31, 2013 at 07:45 AM.
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Old October 31, 2013, 07:55 AM   #4
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I guess I could amend my answer a bit to the question, Anybody reloading for their carry weapon? and say yes (for practice) and no (for when I actually carry).

Sorry if I gave the impression that I didn't think reloads were reliable and may not go bang every time used. That was not my intention. I was trying to convey my opinion that I would not want to be on the stand in front of a jury with a prosecutor implying that I wanted to create the perfect killing load and in doing so, I really wanted to test it out on someone. Since my intentions are only defensive, I want to be able to show that as much as I can.

So one box of ammo does not seem that expensive to me in light of what I might deal with after, when the rest of the time I'm practicing with reloads that function like the factory I use and save me money, since it is the practice that really costs me.

I've been using 115g Winchester FMJ because that was all I could get at the time. Got a bunch, so I want to use them up. But after working up some loads, I got them to feel like what I carry.
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Old October 31, 2013, 08:11 AM   #5
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Re: Reload for Every day carry

Personally I've weighed the decision and ultimately carry my own loads. In my 40, 9mm, 10mm, or 45acp. The 40 & the 10 get 180gr Gold Dots, with long shot being the powder. 9mm gets a 115 or 124gr Gold Dot with the 115 using HS6 and the 124 using 3n37. For the 45acp its a 200 or 230gr with power pistol.

In most aspects I've duplicated factory loadings, with the exception being the 40 and the 10mm. Longshot has some very high velocity ratings for 40, 8.2gr with a 180gdhp bullet leaves my compact M&P at about 1150~1160fps.
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Old October 31, 2013, 08:29 AM   #6
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I will use handloads all day long for having fun in the back 40 ,, but for carry ,it's store bought for me .

I won't give a prosecuting attorney any ammo ( pun intended) to use against me..
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Old October 31, 2013, 08:54 AM   #7
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Everything we shoot, except .22 LR, is loaded by me.

My wife and I both carry 9mm. I follow the principle of "fight the way we train". We have one round for the 9mm, 124 gr Gold Dot. It is used for practice/training and would be used in any self defense situation we found ourselves in. I do the same with our SD rifles.

With all the argument about legal issues with handloaded SD rounds, there sure is little presented in real world cases where is was an issue. Around here I doubt the type of ammunition used would even come up. If there was a reason for me to shoot someone, the first question I'd expect from the deputies would be "Are you guys OK?" The last question I'd expect from anyone in the legal system would be "What kind of ammunition did you use?"
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Old October 31, 2013, 09:01 AM   #8
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Corbon and Hornady have excellent personal defense ammo for 9mm's. +P stuff may be a bit too much for some older pistols. Hornady's FTX ammo's probably the most reliable as far as feeding's concerned.

Opinions vary as do objectives. I suggest you carry what you feel most comfortable with; that helps in dire situations.
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Old October 31, 2013, 09:03 AM   #9
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I think JefferS & Steve4102 have great answers. It depends on the angle that you view it. Personally I would buy good factory ammo for self defense for the same reason as Jeffers.
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Old October 31, 2013, 09:26 AM   #10
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The main reason for me not reloading my carry ammo is primer reliability. I've had too many dud primers recently (2 out of 1000). Hopefully, factory testing weeds out lots of unreliable primers in the premium carry ammo.
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Old October 31, 2013, 09:58 AM   #11
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I'd be curious to know how many times reloaded ammo has ever been brought up in court.
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Old October 31, 2013, 10:06 AM   #12
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Since the topic's been done to death, let's end the thread hijack over to pro/con on handloads-for-carry. If the OP was unaware of the issue before, he's not now. So let's operate on the assumption he's made up his mind and address his question directly: What SD suitable bullets are available and, if possible, at a reasonable price?

Montana Gold's 124 grain JHP is available at under ten cents, and its serrated hollow point is clearly intended to be an expanding hunting/SD type bullet, but you have to buy a bulk quantity of 3750. I would not want to commit to buying that many without trying them, so you might investigate whether or not you can get a sample first. You want enough to test feed reliability in your gun as well as confirming expansion at velocities you can achieve in your gun. A call to the maker should get you the range of velocities it is intended for. If they won't sell you a sample quantity, you might split a bulk order with friends who are also interested.
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Old October 31, 2013, 10:07 AM   #13
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Those who want to read on carrying handloads for defense can see Spats Mcgee's sticky in the L&CR forum and/or do a forum search on the topic.
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Old October 31, 2013, 10:29 AM   #14
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Unlike the 38 or 45, I prefer the higher end bullets for reliable performance in 9mm. If I did a bunch of comparison testing for expansion and penetration I could convince myself to use something lower priced, but at some point I would wonder if it made since to use a box of Gold Dots to compare to the untested bullet when I could have loaded the Gold Dots and had a box of proven quality.

That said, I've had good luck with these Winchester JHPs and they are at least available.
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Old October 31, 2013, 10:29 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Unclenick
Montana Gold's 124 grain JHP is available at under ten cents, and its serrated hollow point is clearly intended to be an expanding hunting/SD type bullet,
Sorry Unclenick, but looks can be deceiving with the Montana Gold JHP. These bullets are Competion bullets and not designed to expand as with other JHP SD bullets.

Here is but one of many expansion tests with the MG JHP. As you can see, jacket separation and almost no expansion.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hsGnDtgVHc0
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Old October 31, 2013, 01:50 PM   #16
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Steve,

Handgun match bullets are typically wadcutter or semi-wadcutter shapes, but almost always solid nose. The H&N High Speed and the Hornady HAP are a couple of exceptions that come to mind, but when you read Hornady's description of the HAP, they comment on having removed the XTP folds around the hollow point for better balance. From a manufacturing standpoint, it would be difficult to form the nose folds and maintain good mass symmetry. So I would expect a bullet with folds to exhibit more wobble in flight than a match bullet does. The MG design is clearly not a match or target design. If MG claims otherwise, they need a better designer.

As to whether the MG bullet performs as intended is another issue. This is why I suggested the OP test a sample. Firing into the test media shown in your video link it doesn't hold together well, but it also clearly penetrated several times further in that improvised media than it would in actual ballistic gel, where penetration of expanding 9 mm is typically less than a foot. This means less deceleration pressure and more distance over which fragments can separate. I can't really interpret the results usefully, but the fact there is any fragmentation suggests they may not be made well enough. It also may just mean that particular load fires them too fast for the bullet design. Again, call the manufacturer and see what velocity range he built and tested them for. See if he has any actual ballistic gelatin results.

Rereading MG's description, they claim it is available in 1000 quantity as well. I didn't spot that previously. The bottom line is still to call and ask.
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Old October 31, 2013, 01:54 PM   #17
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I use factory ammunition. Yes, my reloads function well, but factory ammunition is all new, pressure tested, and the good stuff comes with outstanding bullets.
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Old October 31, 2013, 02:09 PM   #18
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The Montana Golds, Nosler Competition and Hornady HAPs are not optimally designed for on target performance. I shoot the 125 HAPs in major matches and other varieties in local matches, and I have tested them against the various bullets used in commercial defense loadings. The performance is better than FMJs or lead for sure, but it is not as good as premium JHPs.

BTW, you can buy 1000 Montana Golds, don't have to buy case quantities.

Long story short, pick the premium bullet you like the best and develop a load for it. It might take 30 rounds, it might take more. Then load up a batch, catalog it, package it and date it. Once that is done, swap out the bullet with an Xtreme, a Precision Delta, a MG, a HAP etc. of the same weight and use that for practice. Use the premium slug for carry.

I keep a supply of XTPs in 9, 40 and 45 for defense loadings.
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Old October 31, 2013, 02:35 PM   #19
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MarkCO,

You seem to have got different results from Hornady in their testing. But an individual gun's preference can do that. Hornady's literature says:

Quote:
Modeled after the legendary XTP bullet design, HAP (Hornady Action Pistol) bullets are further refined into the perfect competition projectile.
and

Quote:
Expansion isn’t an issue in action pistol shooting, so we removed the expansion-aiding features like the skives and cannelure. The result is a bullet that delivers the accuracy its sleek appearance promises.
Be interesting to discuss it with them. That said, Action Pistol accuracy and target shooting aren't the same. The single most accurate target bullet for .45 Auto I ever found was the Hornady 200 grain JSWC, as the 25 yard group below illustrates.

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Old October 31, 2013, 02:48 PM   #20
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Unclenick, I think I got the exact same results. The HAPs don't perform as well in gel as the XTPs.

When I said "on target" I was not referring to paper and steel, but that which we would want stopped as a threat. I have discussed it with the Hornady folks.
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Old October 31, 2013, 03:14 PM   #21
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1 or is it 1? OK 1wise1,

"Reload for Every day carry
Anybody reloading for their carry weapon?"


Here goes:

Working backwards.
I load every thing I shoot (exclude 22RFs and shot shells).
Job I retired from - they provided every thing. Not that I liked it.
One job back, last 5 or 6 years they provided a weapon with ammunition and I carried it, I also carried my .45 with my loads to use. The Chief thought I was dangerous but knew who to call on.
One job back, first 7 or 8 years, I picked what I wanted and supplied all ammunition, my loads. I only had to qualify with what I carried.
Next job back, I provided every thing, my loads, and only the last couple of years did anyone do any organized range work
Next job back, I provided every thing, my loads.
Next job back.... Well uncle's year round summer camp provided.

Take great care,

OSOK
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Old October 31, 2013, 03:43 PM   #22
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in my real world

I can suggest the conventional Remington 115g S-JHP, the 124g Speer Gold Dot, and the 124g XTP-HP.
Drive the R-P to 1370fps using AA5 / HS6 / Power Pistol / Silhouette-WAP / 3N37.
Run the 124s to 1270fps using the same powders.


But.....before you bet your life on your reloads, think about if you want to.
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Old October 31, 2013, 03:56 PM   #23
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I'm currently sitting on ~1000-1500 pieces of brass, with every intention of reloading it for practice. For carry ammo, though, I'll stick with factory ammo.
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Old October 31, 2013, 09:40 PM   #24
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Like I said Nick, the video was just one of many expansion testes with the MG JHP. Here is another one. Take it whatever sized grain of salt you wish, or better yet run a test of your own and prove them and me wrong.

http://sargesrollcall.blogspot.com/2...old.html#links

To 1wise1, You can do as you wish, but I would not waste time and money purchasing and testing a JHP Competition bullet like the Montana Gold. Do the Google on it, it does not expand like true SD bullets.
In your Original post you commented that you wanted a good bullet at a "good Price". IMO purchasing a bunch of MG bullets to test, just to find out that they do not expand is not cost effective.
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Old November 1, 2013, 07:53 AM   #25
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Best of gunbot in smaller quantity is at Midsouth @$0.13 each for 250

Normally, that is the type of ammunition and application, for which one shops quality and confidence rather than price.
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