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Old October 29, 2013, 08:22 AM   #1
spacecoast
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Need load data for .44 SPC 185 gr. wadcutters

I am expecting some DBBWCs to arrive soon from Penn and am having trouble finding load data. I've been using 3.5 grains of Bullseye under 180 gr. LRNFPs, but these full wadcutters are going to sit a lot deeper in the case and I'm thinking they will require even less powder for a nice soft-shooting 25 yard target load.

Any suggestions? I have Bullseye, Titegroup, AA#2 and Unique available. I'll be shooting these from my S&W 24-3 (3" barrel), also possibly from my 629-4 (6.5").
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Old October 29, 2013, 09:50 AM   #2
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I don't know exactly what the length of your bullet will be. I have data for a Lyman 180 grain LWC mold that casts a bullet 0.5" long, and I estimate adding 5 grains of solid casting alloy (no proportional growth of lube grooves) means a 185 grain bullet would be under 0.51" long. Seating that length flush with the case mouth of a 1.153" long case will leave about 16.3 grains water capacity for the powder space under the bullet. 3.5 grains of Bullseye then produces about 6,750 psi and 670 fps from a 4 5/8" revolver barrel according to QuickLOAD. QuickLOAD thinks 5.3 grains of Bullseye would be maximum without exceeding the 14,000 psi SAAMI MAP for the .44 Special cartridge. But for a target load you won't need to run that hot. Plus, it's just a computer simulation and could be off some.

In your shoes I would start at 3.0 grains of Bullseye and move up to 3.9 grains in 0.3 grain steps, looking for which load of the four produces produces the accuracy you want. Only if your bullets seat more than 0.51" into the case would I reduce that further. At 0.6 inch seating depth, about 0.4 grains powder reduction keeps pressures in the same range.

Seating Depth = case length + bullet length - COL
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Old October 29, 2013, 09:58 AM   #3
spacecoast
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Thanks Unclenick, I will let you know the actual length of the bullets when I receive them. I usually seat my WCs to the point where the crimp groove returns to full width (no crimp) and leave a bit sticking out the end. That's just my preference, no particular reason for doing it that way.
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Old October 29, 2013, 10:41 AM   #4
Wallyl
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I have a Model 24 with a 6" barrel. I use 5~6 grains of Bullseye with the Lyman 429348. Very accurate.
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Old October 29, 2013, 03:12 PM   #5
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I have the 180 wadcutters from Penn and have used them in your powders. First let me explain that my numbers came from the big boss at Penn and he said "use the numbers for 200 grain bullets".
Titegroup 4.5__5.4
AA#2 5.1__5.6
Bullseye __5.8 Very accurate
Unique __5.6 almost very accurate
AA#2 and Titegroup Both fired average accurately, not strong.
However I've used 4756, 7625, Clays, Red Dot, 2400,and AA#7 with excellent results being VERY accurate and 2400 and AA#7 had plenty of power besides. So I set my crimp hard into the end cut of the wad cutter, personally I would not use anything but a hard crimp on a 44 round and I would put it into the crimp cut. I have only Ruger 44's 7 1/2 inch barrels and these are not Ruger loads, they'd be easy shooters. Charlie

Last edited by slugoo; October 29, 2013 at 03:17 PM.
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Old October 29, 2013, 05:10 PM   #6
Nick_C_S
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Quote:
I am expecting some (185g .430) DBBWCs to arrive soon from Penn.
So am I. I'm curious when you ordered yours? Because I ordered mine on July 3rd and I'm still waiting!!

Anyway, I intended to use Speer #14 "Cowboy Action" 200g data as a starting reference (pg 934). Bullseye is 5.4g - 6.4g. So I was going to start at 5.5g or 5.6g's, and see how it goes. I'm going to be shooting them in a 8 3/8" barrel .44 Mag, so I don't want to download them too much. Don't need a slug to stick in the barrel.

I actually bought the slugs for a gun I don't even own yet. Even with no hurry to buy the gun, it looks like I'll get the gun before the bullets. I'm a very patient man, but 4 months is too long for an order of bullets - especially considering they suggested it would be about 4 weeks, and they charged my CC on July 3rd. They did that part real fast.
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Old October 29, 2013, 06:28 PM   #7
spacecoast
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Nick -

I noticed that I had a pending charge from the on my CC current activity, so I thought maybe a shipment was in the works. Maybe I was wrong. I placed the order on Aug. 22.

They do take a while to ship, but my last order with them was a special order (.45 ACP full wadcutters) and was right during the panic (as if this wasn't).
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Old October 29, 2013, 06:51 PM   #8
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I'm surprised they waited over 2 months to charge your CC. I think they charged mine before I even logged out of their site when I placed the order
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Old October 30, 2013, 09:36 AM   #9
Unclenick
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Spacecoast,

If you are seating out further than flush, you'll be able to use more powder. Most cast WC's have a crimp groove up near the end and so they don't seat quite flush like a commercial WC, the Penn bullet included. I just used flush as a worst-case scenario.

I've always taper crimped wadcutters in order to save the wear and tear on the case mouths that a roll crimp introduces. But as long as recoil doesn't cause the bullets to back out enough to jam cylinder rotation, you should be good to go.


Nick,

If you've read the last Penn Bulletin on the hold-ups and read between the lines, you'll find examples of 6 months delay is possible on specialty items, but Bob Palermo is claiming 6-8 weeks is more normal. Again reading between the lines, Palermo also indicates he let the orders get jumbled up and had to hire part time people to reorganize them and get them back in chronological order and appropriately located in the production schedule. He says:

Quote:
When your order is grouped and charged those orders are active and will ship anywhere from one day to a maximum of six to eight weeks. If your order is charged and you have not received a ship confirmation then please call or e-mail me to check its status.

If an order hasn’t been charged and it has been here for eight to twelve weeks then you can e-mail or phone for a projected ship date.
So there seems to be some confusion there. If I'm reading it right, he tries not to charge more than 6 to 8 weeks ahead as that's the maximum time an order should be active, but they've obviously messed this up in a number of instances. The bottom line is to email him with your order specifics as your order should be active, but may have been displaced by others inadvertently. I don't know why he says to call, as he also says he's not responding to phone messages for lack of time to do it. He claims he gets to all e-mail—eventually. I think, given those statements, you might even want to send him a note by snail mail just to get more certain attention than an email or phone message.

I was astonished to read that he tripled their capacity and still can't keep up.
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Old October 30, 2013, 09:29 PM   #10
Nick_C_S
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Penn Bullets backlog

Thank you Unclenick.

It's been about three weeks since his last e-mail - where he said "it should be next week." I'll tap his shoulder again.
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Old October 31, 2013, 06:13 PM   #11
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Here are some loads for 180 GR lead for the special. I would load them to the crimp line on the bullet and stay in the lower loads and the increased depth will not amount to much increase in pressure. Shooting them out of a 24 (welcome to the special club) will be like shooting a 38.
My preference for pen is the 180 TCBB and unique. Some time order some of those. That thing is a great load and very accurate. They are really nice in the Bulldog for the wife.
I also went through my Lyman cast lead book and sorry to say they don’t list a full wad cutter for COL.
My last order from Penn early spring during the worst of the crazzzzzzzz took 3 months. I talk to the man himself every couple of months and it hurts him to take so long but you have to understand that he is doing everything he can to fill orders. His is such a superior product sales are out the roof.
I’m just waiting for the .430 Thunder head like the 451. He has the molds but he has so many orders for his present list he doesn’t have the time.

http://www.alliantpowder.com/reloade...d=43&oal=1.435

http://data.hodgdon.com/cartridge_load.asp
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Old November 6, 2013, 06:11 PM   #12
spacecoast
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The bullets came today, below is a pic of them (on the right) in comparison to the 180 gr. LRNFPs I have been using. They measure 0.495" and will take up approximately 0.15" more space in the case than the bullet on the left. I won't be able to get to the range for about 10 days so my accuracy comparison will have to wait until then, I'll likely shoot one round of slow fire with each style using the same powder load.

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Old November 6, 2013, 06:41 PM   #13
Nick_C_S
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Penn Order Fulfilled

Just an FYI: I got my Penn shipment last Saturday - including the 185g DEWC's. (Ordered July 3rd - received Nov 2nd. As the website says "this is not fast food." And that's okay.) They're cute little things (by .44 Cal standards). I haven't loaded any yet. I actually bought them for a gun I don't have yet lol. My only .44 is an 8 3/8" barreled Smith 629. It's a bit much gun for the bullet.
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