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Old October 28, 2013, 01:50 PM   #1
Sevens
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new 10mm ammo: Critical Duty

...or should it read, "Critical Doodie" ?!

Okay, so folks who are familiar with the 10mm know quite well how factory ammo in this chambering varies wildly. Most also know why that is, and go ahead and put your version of that somewhere in here if you feel that you must...

Point is, the boutique ammo makers tend to build performance 10mm, built to approach or match the original specifications and intent of the round as it was designed. Most will agree that it's fairly HAIRY, and producing a lot of velocity with a fairly heavy weight slug. (in comparison with most mainstream semi-auto pistol rounds)

While Buffalo Bore, Underwood, Double Tap and others focus on SOLID, full-spec 10mm, some of the big companies make some really weakened, watered-down 10mm, much of it sits around .40 S&W performance levels and some of it falls below the best .40 S&W ammo out there. Rem-UMC only makes range fodder/target FMJ, but Federal markets a "performance" and/or "defense" brands in the Hydra-Shock product, and both of these are quite weak as 10mm goes.

Winchester only offers a single factory produced 10mm product currently, it's the seriously old-school Silvertip and while the bullet is very old technology, the velocity of the 175-grain slug is at least beyond some of the really wimpy "FBI Lite" grade 10mm that Federal and Remington produce.

To the subject of the thread... Hornady! Yesterday, I stop in Cabela's and I see a 10mm factory ammo product that I'd never seen before. Hornady Critical Duty. Not to be confused with the "Critical Defense" product from the same manufacturer, the Critical Duty line of ammo was specifically designed for penetration and to limit expansion so that the round had the "juice" to pass FBI penetration testing, something that other expanding bullets can struggle with simply because of their easy, early and wide expansion.

This particular 10mm ammo product advertises a 175 grain slug with a muzzle velocity of 1,050 FPS. And it sits on the shelf immediately next to the Buffalo Bore 10mm product that advertises a JHP with a muzzle velocity of 1,350 FPS... a full THREE HUNDRED feet per second faster.

I find this new product baffling. Even funnier is that Hornady also offers 10mm ammo loaded with their classic XTP hollow point, and while it's not the full high-octane stuff that the boutique makers offer, it's at least pushing a similar weight slug to a more typical (proper?) 10mm Auto velocity. (180grain XTP rated at 1,180 FPS)

Myself... I don't spend a lot of time dwelling on exterior ballistics. I tend to fall more in the camp that "multiple COM shots" are the answer, rather than looking for the magical single round that produces handgun miracles. But it doesn't bother me that other folks do enjoy the discussion and testing of ammunition performance and design. And there is always learning to be done in this area.
---------------------------------------
In the most basic terms, I've got to ask:
If you advertise a product as one that is designed to penetrate and defeat barriers, does it make sense that you load it to a velocity that falls two hundred to three FPS behind it's original design, and other products on the market?

If you visit the Hornady web site, you will not see this product. It appears, thus far, that's it's a Cabela's exclusive. I swear... I am -NOT- making it up, the MV is printed right on the box itself. However the Hornady website will show you a .40 S&W Critical Duty product that sends a .40cal, 175 grain bullet at 1,010 FPS.

What you can find on the Hornady website are these traits of the Critical Duty ammunition product line:
Quote:
Introducing the most consistent and reliable barrier ammo on the market.
Quote:
CORE is made of high-antimony lead making it extremely tough, delivering controlled expansion for unparalleled terminal performance consistency through all FBI test barriers.
Quote:
Law enforcement and tactical professionals now have a truly advanced, 21st century handgun ammunition solution that delivers the most consistent and reliable urban barrier performance ever created!
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Old October 28, 2013, 02:15 PM   #2
Bart Noir
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Nice.

I don't have to buy a .40 S&W barrel for my 10mm Glock. All I have to do is load up with some of that Critical Duty ammo, and then I am shooting .40 from a 10mm case!

Thanks for bringing that to our attention.

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Old October 28, 2013, 02:33 PM   #3
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It has been a lot of years since I bought any factory stuff but I know a lot of it is referred to as medium velocity or something similar.

My old go-to load for a long time has been a Hornady 180 XTP using blue dot that averages 1252 fps. I use this not for the power but that has been very accurate with good power-at least good enough for me.
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Old October 28, 2013, 05:34 PM   #4
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Quote:
Point is, the boutique ammo makers tend to build performance 10mm, built to approach or match the original specifications and intent of the round as it was designed.
That is, in itself, and interesting subject. The original intent of the 10mm round was to replace the M1911/.45 ACP combo with the Bren Ten/10mm. Col. Cooper wanted a 200gr bullet with an impact velocity of 1000fps. At practical pistol ranges, that would mean a muzzle velocity of about 1050, maybe up to 1100, if you want to engage stuff at 100 yards with a pistol.
If you've shot any full-power, heavy bullet 10mm through a service-type pistol, you'll recognize immediately that the round is not something that many are going to choose for a service or carry, any more than someone was going to choose full-power .41 Magnum for a service revolver in the '60s.
I think the really hot, heavy bullet loads are better for four-legged critters that aren't shooting back.
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Old October 28, 2013, 07:47 PM   #5
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Quote:
Cooper wanted a 200gr bullet with an impact velocity of 1000fps. At practical pistol ranges, that would mean a muzzle velocity of about 1050, maybe up to 1100, if you want to engage stuff at 100 yards with a pistol.
Yes. And PMC, still to this day, produces the ammo that remains in the spirit of Cooper's wishes. A 200 gr FMCTC @ 1050fps, and a 170 gr HP @ 1200fps. As I always said, not nuclear but by no means wimpy. These are the lightest loads my Colt Delta Elite was used to, they were available all over and plentiful, and they were quite accurate. I still see them at gun shows, but naturally, they are far more expensive than they were in the eighties and nineties. I still recommend them if you can find them.
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Old October 28, 2013, 08:16 PM   #6
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Quote:
the Critical Duty line of ammo was specifically designed for penetration and to limit expansion so that the round had the "juice" to pass FBI penetration testing, something that other expanding bullets can struggle with simply because of their easy, early and wide expansion.
Expansion is not limited to less compareable numbers by design. They lose less KE when penetrating small barriers and hold a flatter trajectory. Aslo the Flex tip is designed to prevent clogging while controlling expansion.

As with anything "new" or labled "police" or "service round" have always been selling points for ammunition. When it's all said and done they have been less effective than claimed. I see something different with the Critical Duty however.

I have tested several rounds over the years on many things with mostly similar results when compared to similar rounds. Bone and some types of clothing causing HP's to clog has always been a problem.


I have done a few test but nothing yet with real bone. Seems Like a good time for a few new test with bone I think. I have tested the Critical Duty through plywood and drywall with results similar to Hornady's test. Should be interesting.
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Old October 29, 2013, 01:18 PM   #7
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I like the Hornady 155 XTP, based on 10 shots it averaged 1,278 fps (faster than advertised) out of a Glock 29.

I don't want 10mm ammo loaded to 40 S&W, but I don't want it nuclear hot either.

I wish Underwood would offer a "Delta Elite" load in 155/150 gr.
A load that a stock Glock can shoot without bulged brass (like the Hornady 155).
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Old October 29, 2013, 02:01 PM   #8
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Running a 17-lb ISMI recoil spring my Glock 29 with original Glock 10mm barrel, I've not yet ever bulged a piece of 10mm brass in over 3,000 rounds. Not once, not ever.

Mostly, that's been handloads running 150 or 180 slug, Power Pistol, Blue Dot, IMR-800X or Longshot. In factory, it's been Hornady, Remington, Federal, Winchester Silvertip and two boxes of the hot Buffalo Bore 180's.

My G29 is a Gen3 with a summer 2008 build date, MML prefix.
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Old October 29, 2013, 02:08 PM   #9
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I can only say that while such ammo is disappointing, it is not at all surprising. As noted in the OP, most factory 10mm ammo has been weak for years and most official published load data has the round worse than neutered, often no more than 50fps or so faster than 40SW data with identical bullets and the 10mm with LONGER barrel lengths.

The 10mm is a shining example of why I handload.
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Old October 29, 2013, 02:39 PM   #10
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I'm disappointed, but not surprised by this. I do like 10mm a lot, but the reason is because of it's versatility. I think hot 10mm loads are overkill for defense against humans.

Personally, I carry the Federal Hishock for self-defense, and then switch out for the Buffalo Bore if I'm going out hiking/camping/etc.

I have also just carried it with Federal HST 40S&W using my Lone Wolf conversion barrel on occasion. I have just as much 40 through the gun, maybe more, as I do 10mm... so I feel perfectly confident carrying it with the lone wolf barrel. It's the only 40 I own anymore, and the only one I actually enjoy shooting.
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Old October 29, 2013, 05:20 PM   #11
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new 10mm ammo: Critical Duty

Hornady has pretty boxes and nice little plastic tips in their bullets but they will never be carried as a SD round in one of my guns. Most of their ammo will not test to the speed on the box. I keep asking on different forums for somebody to name a LE agency that uses it and I am still waiting. It has been known for feeding problems. It amazes me how many people actually carry this stuff. It is cheap and pretty and shoots soft and good for practice. It sounds like it just keeps getting weaker. I do not understand them making a 10mm round that is weaker than a weak .40.
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Old October 29, 2013, 05:26 PM   #12
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I have seen Hornady in several PD firearms. Glendale, AZ is one.

While this 10mm is a poor example, their Critical DUTY line is generally great stuff. The Critical Defense line... not so much.

I run the Critical Duty 135gr +P 9mm in my G19 and M&P9. Exceeded specs on Chrono. Feeds 100% and shoots accurately. I wouldn't call it cheap either. Just about the same as Golden Saber.
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Old October 29, 2013, 05:51 PM   #13
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Quote:
If you visit the Hornady web site, you will not see this product. It appears, thus far, that's it's a Cabela's exclusive. I swear... I am -NOT- making it up, the MV is printed right on the box itself. However the Hornady website will show you a .40 S&W Critical Duty product that sends a .40cal, 175 grain bullet at 1,010 FPS.

What you can find on the Hornady website are these traits of the Critical Duty ammunition product line:
Quote:
Introducing the most consistent and reliable barrier ammo on the market.
Quote:
CORE is made of high-antimony lead making it extremely tough, delivering controlled expansion for unparalleled terminal performance consistency through all FBI test barriers.
Quote:
Law enforcement and tactical professionals now have a truly advanced, 21st century handgun ammunition solution that delivers the most consistent and reliable urban barrier performance ever created!
Here's my chrono and gel test of that round FWIW:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xe_wDxglNHo
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Old October 29, 2013, 11:42 PM   #14
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If they are running the same 175gr critical duty HP in the 10 that they do in the .40, they run it at nearly the same speed because that's what the bullet is designed for. Run it too fast and it probably 'over expands' and 'under penetrates' relative to the desired (FBI) criteria. One of the tough things with the 10 is finding a projectile designed to take true 10 velocities, as almost all projectiles are designed to work at .40 velocities.
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Old October 30, 2013, 10:50 AM   #15
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Either Hornady intentionally loaded it light to tick off the 10mm crowd, or perhaps they did it in a bit of a hurry, not really bumping things up too much. Some bullets aren't pushed faster because the short of it is simple, faster isn't always better. Sure it can be, but it isn't always a sure bet.

I like the 10mm as a whole, but this whole boo hoo it's watered down factory ammo stuff is old. I know many 10mm guys vehemently dislike the .40, otherwise they wouldn't be so quick to crap on .40 level loads out of the 10mm. Sure I get the whole hey it's a 10mm so it should be loaded like a 10mm thing, but at the same time, last time I checked the .40 was very effective.

I know from experience that some .40 bullets just don't like to be pushed much faster at all while some hold up somewhat well to extra velocity. To add, the original 10mm loads were known to be very warm...warm as in over pressure and finicky. I'm all for a stout 10mm if it's using the right bullet for the velocity, but at the same time, ammo makers the like of Underwood and Buffalo Bore handily exceed the 10mm's given pressure rating. In short, they may be fast, but they're also over pressure.
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Old October 30, 2013, 11:12 AM   #16
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Quote:
It has been known for feeding problems.
I can say first hand that it does indeed have feeding problems, at least with my gun. I have a S&W 4006 that is built like a tank and eats basically what ever ammo you put through it, any brand and, any bullet style. (Besides the hornady stuff). I couldn't get more than two off at a time without a jam happening, and unfortunately it ruined my 4006's no malfunction record .

I'm not knocking hornady as a brand though. Their ammo seems alright based on tests I've watched, and if it did work in my only handgun then I'd feel pretty safe with it.
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Old October 30, 2013, 12:17 PM   #17
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The 10mm is one of those calibers you will rarely be satisfied with it if you don't handload.

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Old October 30, 2013, 01:19 PM   #18
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Quote:
I know many 10mm guys vehemently dislike the .40, otherwise they wouldn't be so quick to crap on .40 level loads out of the 10mm.
I'm one of those guys, but I would hazard a guess that you don't know why I so vehemently dislike the .40. It is not because of the velocity or exterior ballistics of the round at all.

For folks who don't know, the relationship between .40 S&W and 10mm Auto isn't at all like the relationship between .38 Special/.357 Magnum or .44 Special/.44 Magnum. .40cal & 10mm are much, much closer and run nearly the same pressures. Those others run like double the pressure.

There are other fantastic reasons to loathe .40cal, but even 'real' 10mm guys can (and should) find reasons to also like .40cal.
Quote:
I like the 10mm as a whole, but this whole boo hoo it's watered down factory ammo stuff is old.
Yet you click on the thread. Well, they do the same thing to .38 Super and we also make note of the fact when they radically under-load other (more mainstream) rounds, too. It may be an annoyance to you that fans of the round don't like it when yet another manufacturer builds WEAK 10mm round, but there's actual meat (and not simple emotion) to the argument.
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Old November 1, 2013, 02:24 PM   #19
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new 10mm ammo: Critical Duty

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ruger45LC View Post
Either Hornady intentionally loaded it light to tick off the 10mm crowd, or perhaps they did it in a bit of a hurry, not really bumping things up too much. Some bullets aren't pushed faster because the short of it is simple, faster isn't always better. Sure it can be, but it isn't always a sure bet.

I like the 10mm as a whole, but this whole boo hoo it's watered down factory ammo stuff is old. I know many 10mm guys vehemently dislike the .40, otherwise they wouldn't be so quick to crap on .40 level loads out of the 10mm. Sure I get the whole hey it's a 10mm so it should be loaded like a 10mm thing, but at the same time, last time I checked the .40 was very effective.

I know from experience that some .40 bullets just don't like to be pushed much faster at all while some hold up somewhat well to extra velocity. To add, the original 10mm loads were known to be very warm...warm as in over pressure and finicky. I'm all for a stout 10mm if it's using the right bullet for the velocity, but at the same time, ammo makers the like of Underwood and Buffalo Bore handily exceed the 10mm's given pressure rating. In short, they may be fast, but they're also over pressure.
What is maximum 10mm pressure allowed and what pressure does Underwood and Buffalo Bore load to? Neither of these company's mark any 10mm as +P like all of the potent .380, 9mm, .40, .45 they offer. They also sell the hottest .357 Sig ammo and it is not marked +p.
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Old November 1, 2013, 03:27 PM   #20
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maybe for ONE shot

Most shooters simply cannot control powerful 10mm rds.
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Old November 1, 2013, 05:39 PM   #21
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Is there a need to "control" them? Does anyone discuss controlling .500 Magnum?
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Old November 1, 2013, 06:11 PM   #22
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if you want true 10mm velocities and weights which coincide with the box flap specs, you have to buy reasonably priced Underwood or high priced Buffalo Bore.

old Double Tap use to do what it said on the box, I still have a stash of that, but the new stuff is watered down comparatively speaking.

none of the big four make true 10mm powered ammo.
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Old November 1, 2013, 06:55 PM   #23
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People need to quit complaining and just do something about it. I reload using Missouri Bullets or Hornady HAP 175g/180g with 8.2 grains of Powerpistol. It is cost effective. If I want to get 'crazy' I will buy low power store rounds, yank the bullet, dump the powder and reload using 8.2g Powerpistol. As powerpistol is all I have. Not very cost effective but I get to use the bullet.
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Old November 1, 2013, 07:06 PM   #24
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People need to quit complaining and just do something about it. I reload using Missouri Bullets or Hornady HAP 175g/180g with 8.2 grains of Powerpistol. It is cost effective. If I want to get 'crazy' I will buy low power store rounds, yank the bullet, dump the powder and reload using 8.2g Powerpistol. As powerpistol is all I have. Not very cost effective but I get to use the bullet.
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Old November 1, 2013, 10:39 PM   #25
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The local Academy is carrying Ted Nugent branded ammo, distributed by American Tactical of Rochester NY. I picked up a couple of boxes of it just to try but haven't made it to the range with it yet. According to the box, it's loaded with a 180 gr Speer UHP bullet at 1238 fps. Box of 20 is about $20.
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