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Old October 28, 2013, 12:54 PM   #1
iwamaki
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Recalcitrant .223 cases

Hello folks -

I bought a bulk lot of Remington once fired .223 cases and am in the process of reloading them.

Most of them are ok, but a few won't size down all the way, freezing up hard about 3/8" from the base.

Can anyone let me know what the story is on these things?

Thanks much - Dave

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Old October 28, 2013, 12:59 PM   #2
stnosc
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Did you lube them before trying to resize?
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Old October 28, 2013, 01:03 PM   #3
iwamaki
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Of course. I lube all rifle cases.
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Old October 28, 2013, 01:11 PM   #4
TATER
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Berdan??
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Old October 28, 2013, 01:37 PM   #5
iwamaki
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Remington .223 cases, headstamp R-P, with Boxer primers (I just popped one out to make sure).

I've reloaded a number of different calibers, rifle and pistol, over several decades and have never seen anything like this before.

Could it be that there is something different in the manufacture of these cases? Or were they fired from some particular rifle that messed them up?

The real mystery is that the great majority of the cases size down just fine, but the few that don't jam up exactly the same.

Oh, and thank you nice folks for your help.
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Old October 28, 2013, 01:52 PM   #6
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Quote:
Could it be that there is something different in the manufacture of these cases? Or were they fired from some particular rifle that messed them up?
No, they are just work harden and no one has annealed the neck of the case. Most likely used a number of times with hot loads. Each time you resize the same case you harden the brass.

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Old October 28, 2013, 03:20 PM   #7
TATER
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Actually, if they were ran threw a SAW they could be out of whack. You really don't know the history.
You could get the calibers out and look at the face and scratch your head. Play it safe and just set them to the side for
now and try to size them on a single stage press. If you are in fact on a single stage press then scrap them.
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Old October 28, 2013, 04:12 PM   #8
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Of course. I lube all rifle cases.
What lube are you using?
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Old October 28, 2013, 04:45 PM   #9
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It's not uncommon for cases fired in a full auto weapon to be hard to resize. This is one reason commercial operations processing once-fired military brass use profile roll sizing instead of standard sizing dies. Indeed, they can be so large and springy that you have to use a small base die to return them to a small enough size at all. But once fired in your chamber, they should be no harder to resize than the rest.
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Old October 28, 2013, 08:19 PM   #10
iwamaki
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Thanks for your input, guys.

The plot is beginning to un-thicken.

I'm using an RCBS single stage press with a standard FL sizing die. I might be able to apply enough force to get the cases sized all the way down, but I don't want to take a chance on getting one seriously stuck and have a big hassle getting it out.

It's possible that the batch of cases came from a military facility, and that some of them were fired from a SAW or other fully automatic weapon. I'm not familiar with what such guns can do to cases, but it seems plausible that it might be the source of the problem.

Anyway, most of the cases are ok, and I think I'll just toss the problem ones.
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Old October 29, 2013, 04:41 AM   #11
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What lube are you using?
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Old October 29, 2013, 05:11 AM   #12
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Quote:
Remington .223 cases, headstamp R-P
It begs the question: Is that something that the military would be shooting in a SAW? Unless the primer pocket has a military crimp, I do not think that they would be a military by-product. Also, I doubt work-hardened in this instance, the necks split on work hardened cases, not bodies refusing to size down. I do not think that this mystery has been solved yet. Nevertheless, I would bet on being fired in an over-size chamber.
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Old October 29, 2013, 09:43 AM   #13
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If he tried resizing brass with a crimped primer, wouldnt he snap the decapping pin in the die? I remember when i started my .308's a few years ago, i had an unmarked nato sneak through and when i put it through resizing it instantly snapped the decapping pin. Also, if the vent hole on the die is.clogged or.blocked, would that cause the case not to enter fully or does that just put those annoying dents in the case neck?
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Old October 29, 2013, 03:50 PM   #14
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I use Lucas White Lithium Grease for sizing military 5.56 and 7.62. It is about $7 for a 10 oz tube at Home Depot. Makes sizing much easier and never had one get stuck. Apply only a light film, maybe every other case.
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Old October 29, 2013, 04:50 PM   #15
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If he tried resizing brass with a crimped primer, wouldnt he snap the decapping pin in the die?
Not necessarily. I remember years ago, buying WWII surplus 9MM Luger ammo (it was way cheaper than commercial), that had a military crimp. It would de-cap without problems, but had to cut the crimp off with a pocket knife or chamfering tool to get the primer pockets to accept a new primer. I do not remember if I ever dealt with crimped in rifle primers though.
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Old October 29, 2013, 05:26 PM   #16
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Jeff2131,

If what you suggest were the case, none of us using military brass would be able to reload it after initial firing and nobody would sell primer pocket reamers or swagers. I suspect when you say crimped primer, you actually mean you got a Berdan primed case in by mistake. These have two small flash holes either side of center instead of a single, larger centrally located flash hole. 7.62 NATO comes in both Berdan and Boxer cases from different parts of the world.
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Old October 29, 2013, 05:30 PM   #17
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Bump... what lube are you using?
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Old October 29, 2013, 07:13 PM   #18
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Bump ...
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Old October 29, 2013, 07:14 PM   #19
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The .223 is a tiny case no matter what it was fired in, put some good lube on the lower body and size the things.
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Old October 29, 2013, 07:25 PM   #20
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Unclenick, you maybe be right, because when it snapped my decapping pin i threw it in the trash so i never did get the primer out to see if it had two flash holes. Makes sense. I never use 5.56 or 7.62 so i just assumed that the four little dents around the primer meant it was crimped and that if i tried to run in through my die it would snap my pin. With that being said, i dont own a reamer or decrimper tool....i thought they were used BEFORE decapping to cut out those four little dents...hahaha.

Again, being schooled by you guys is great, i keep learning everytime i post or make a comment. Thanx!
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Old October 29, 2013, 07:38 PM   #21
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One more time.

What Lube are You Using??
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Old November 5, 2013, 10:25 PM   #22
iwamaki
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Thanks for all the information.

I finally decided to take a chance and apply enough force to size the cases all the way down. I was worried that a case would get stuck in the die, maybe separate at the base, and create a huge hassle, but it didn't happen. After getting sized they came out without a problem.

I still don't know what caused the cases to bulge like that; the oversize chamber theory seems the most plausible, but at least the situation has been resolved.

As for the lube, it's something I bought about 25 years ago. It came in a plastic jar. The jar cracked and the lube started to dry out, so I transferred it to a sealed glass jar. I don't remember what brand it was, but it still seems to work ok.

Cheers - Dave
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Old November 5, 2013, 11:53 PM   #23
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Whatever that lube is (or was), throw it away. You don't need to risk the
consequences of a stuck case for any reason.

Go spend $3 and get some RCBS Case Lube-2 and use it.
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Old November 6, 2013, 07:59 AM   #24
steve4102
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Quote:
Originally Posted by iwamaki
I don't remember what brand it was, but it still seems to work ok.
Sorry, but it doesn't appear to be working at all, let alone OK. Toss it and buy new and not that One Shot Crap.
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Old November 6, 2013, 12:17 PM   #25
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Originally Posted by steve4102
...and not that One Shot Crap.
I use and LIKE "that One Shot Crap."
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