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Old November 3, 2013, 12:22 PM   #1
great scot
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Bond, James Bond

Beretta 418

Walther PPK

Walther P99
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Old November 3, 2013, 12:47 PM   #2
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Don't forget the Armalite AR7 and the Walther LP53! .............. [IMG][/IMG]
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Old November 3, 2013, 01:11 PM   #3
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Browning 1922 (?) in Dr. No. Suppressed as well.
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Old November 3, 2013, 01:48 PM   #4
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S&W 629 in "Live and Let Die"?
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Old November 3, 2013, 02:42 PM   #5
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Quote:
Browning 1922 (?) in Dr. No. Suppressed as well.
AFAIK it was supposedly a 1910 with a 1922 barrel installed to allow a (phony) suppressor to fit.

The barrel of a Walther PPK is not readily removable, whereas 1910/1922 barrels are removed for routine field-stripping, and a longer 1922 barrel is a direct drop-in fit in a 1910 frame. If the film armorer had both a 1910 and a 1922 on hand- along with a 1910 barrel bushing removal tool- the 1922 barrel could be swapped into the 1910 in less than 5 minutes.

Although IIRC the actual history is a little murky, it is widely assumed that the armorer could not find a suppressor-ready PPK in time for filming, so a 1922-barreled 1910 was substituted.

BTW great scot, I believe that the 418 needs to have the grips removed and the grip safety pinned forward to be 100% faithful to the books.
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Old November 3, 2013, 04:51 PM   #6
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Exactly which Beretta .25 Fleming was referring to was never really confirmed. There was the old model 1919 around, but in the early 1950's, the 318 and 418 were the most plentiful and common. However, the little 950 had already been on the scene, and it COULD have been the one. Would Bond have clung to the Beretta that dates back to him as a younger man (in 1953, Bond might have been 30-35 years old as a "commander" at the end of WWII, and the Beretta 1919 or 318 would have been around), or opted for the latest thing (950)? The first book, Casino Royale, was published in 1953. We're going to have to did up Fleming, and get a medium.
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Old November 3, 2013, 05:59 PM   #7
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The use of an Hk 416 in Skyfall, at the final 25 minutes....
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Old November 3, 2013, 07:35 PM   #8
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I think the 418 is described as having the grips removed and electrical tape wrapped around instead of the grips... to make the 418 thinner. If memory serves, it's in quite a few books.

The ASP and HK P7 in later books.
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Old November 3, 2013, 08:27 PM   #9
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Wasn't there also a S&W M10 in the book Dr. No?
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Old November 3, 2013, 10:15 PM   #10
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Fleming was not a firearms expert, though he pretended to be one when interviewed. IIRC, he once had someone use a .30-30 Remington, even though at that time Remington had never made a rifle in .30-30 (.30 Winchester Center Fire). The Model 788 came out later.

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Old November 3, 2013, 10:24 PM   #11
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He once also had Bond carry his PPK in a Berns Martin shoulder holster, as every one knows such a holster will only work with revolvers.
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Old November 3, 2013, 11:07 PM   #12
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Don't forget the Walther P5 in Octopussy.
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Old November 4, 2013, 05:20 AM   #13
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Sean Connery and Jack Lord both had the Walther PP in Dr. No.

I always thought he should carry a PPS. In the latest ghost written novel Carte Blanche he does. In .40 no less. I always thought the 9mm would have been more quintessentially European.
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Old November 4, 2013, 06:34 AM   #14
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Fleming

Fleming was no Mas Ayoob in terms of gun knowledge but he had MODERATE success anyway. I agree he was a bit under-gunned even when upgrading to a 7.65 mm PPK from a .25 Beretta.

He should have had this Walther:

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Old November 5, 2013, 03:45 PM   #15
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But in terms of what Europeans were fielding in the 50s, his choice of a 7.62 was logical, if not cutting edge. And a PPK is THE perfect Bond gun. I dont see Bond with a Glock or M&P.

Sig 232 maybe, come to think of it... Wonder if it were available in the 50s?
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Old November 5, 2013, 04:02 PM   #16
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At the risk of being torched, I don't think the 418 was a terrible choice for Bond. The literary Bond was more a spy than superhero. In fact, in most of Flemmings books Bond uses his pistol up close on limited number of adversaries. The most important criteria for Bond's pistol was concealment and the 418 meets that criteria and them some. I agree that currently there are FAR better options, but in the 50's, a reliable, flat, light, .25 that you actually had on you would do a good job of keeping your fat out of the fryer.
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Old November 5, 2013, 04:31 PM   #17
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S&W 629 in "Live and Let Die"?
A little early for a 629; nickel-plated M29.
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Old November 5, 2013, 05:13 PM   #18
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As Great Scot noted above, 007 was a spy, and assassin, not a "run and shoot lots of bullets" kind of celluloid hero, as depicted in the oh-so fun to watch Bond movies. I'm sure Fleming would be having a great laugh to see his creation turn into such fun entertainment, especially while cashing those royalty checks, if he were still around. Not what he intended, but some popular things just take on their own life. At a time when spies just might want to take "hardware" with them (remember, no x-rays or heavy airport or rail security back in the 50's), a small flat gun with a silencer could be made to kill discreetly at close range. I had a Beretta 418 that once shot a grapefruit sized group at 32 yards. The gun would seem to be as capable as the man using it.
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Old November 5, 2013, 05:16 PM   #19
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No love for the ASP 9x19mm?.....

The Bond character of several novels used the super-cool ASP 9mm with the "old school" Glaser Safety Slugs(blue).
Paris Theodore R&Ded the ASP which was based on the Smith & Wesson model 39.
Bond used the ASP pistol along with a ASP baton(different firm) to fight off the bad guys.

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Old November 5, 2013, 05:24 PM   #20
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I could never accept the Bond books by Gardner. After Fleming died, it just wasn't the same. The ASP is a beautiful gun, and Bond-worthy, but some things should be left alone. Gardner should have come forward with 008, or something new.
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Old November 5, 2013, 05:44 PM   #21
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Though I've loved the new Daniel Craig Bond films, I've scratched my head at the choice in weaponry.

Especially is Skyfall, where Monty Penny uses a 7.5 inch AR to shoot Bond on a moving train at about 100 meters. My 7.5 inch SBR is out of steam at 100 meters. That's where a HK416 would of made much more sense.

Also when Bond is using a Walter PPK in the modern times when there's so many high-capacity, compact concealed weapons in full-power 9mm. If you're a seceret agent, you'd want a more powerful gun with more ammo than a PPK.
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Old November 5, 2013, 05:56 PM   #22
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You have the original Fleming books, the movies, and the Gardiner books.
All have different treatments.

Geoffrey Boothroyd was the real world equivalent of the movie Q and helped or tried to help Fleming keep the guns straight. Sometimes he was able, sometimes not.

A .25 seems reasonable for a spook type. Matt Helm said that in the spy game you are likelier to have to get rid of a gun than to shoot it.

"...he once had someone use a .30-30 Remington,"

Most likely an error on Fleming's part, maybe he saw .30-30 ammunition listed in a Remington catalog. HOWEVER, there were early issues of Remington Model 8 rifles and ammunition in .30 Remington rimless that were marked ".30-30 Remington." The name was soon changed to avoid confusion, but some got out. So not impossible.
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Old November 5, 2013, 07:17 PM   #23
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I think you'd be hard pressed to find a gun that is as flat, reliable and accurate as a PPK from modern guns. Most modern minis are Browning recoil types and accurate enough, but not like a fixed barrel PPK. In a British government agency, sticking with something that works seems very realistic.

Did you all catch that his PPK was "upgraded" to a 9x17 (.380) in the last film?

I don't think a 7.5" barreled AR at 200 yards would be something to sneeze at. And I doubt the intention was to depict the weapon being intended for sniping - just an accurate rifle that is as compact for the spies as possible. She uses it because it was what she had, and it was accurate enough.

Maybe Bond survives because the bullet did little more than poke a nice clean hole?

I like the Walther rifle in Living Daylights.

I think the P99 thing just stank of product placement marketing, along with the BMW Z3 Brosnan drove. Blah.
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Old November 5, 2013, 10:21 PM   #24
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Having played with most all of the Bond weapons, be they book or movie guns, I am impressed at the utility and accuracy of them. Sure, a .25 caliber AR7 does not exist, and it is a dubious choice for downing a helicopter, but the Walthers and Beretta proved to be superbly accurate, and the P99 lent itself nicely to real suppressed use. As mentioned, the .25 Beretta 418 would shoot head shot easily at 25 yards, the PPK .32 was able to do that at 50 yards (now you are talking two hands over a rest, not snap shops like Bond in the movies), and the P99 could do head shots at 25 yards, with a genuine AAC Evolution-9 suppressor. I found that I could superimpose the three do sight of the P99 on the target, and get some respectable groups, even though I couldn't actually SEE the target area due to obstruction by the suppressor, which occluded the sights. You have to try this to understand it; it is similar to the Bindon aiming concept. Anyway, my P99 is one of my most accurate 9mm's, so even if it was a movie choice, or some marketing scheme by Walther to get it in the movies, it is still a first rate gun and suppressor system. The fact that Walther offered threaded barrels when other gun manufacturers were sleeping says something. If I were an agent, I'd want all three in my armory.
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Old November 6, 2013, 12:50 AM   #25
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I always thought he should carry a PPS. In the latest ghost written novel Carte Blanche he does. In .40 no less. I always thought the 9mm would have been more quintessentially European.
Agreed. The PPS (preferably in 9mm) is the gun Bond should be carrying in the new films.

Just goes to show you how little Hollywood (or in this case, Pinewood Studios) really knows or cares about firearms.


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