The Firing Line Forums

Go Back   The Firing Line Forums > The Conference Center > General Discussion Forum

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old October 27, 2013, 10:32 AM   #1
rebs
Senior Member
 
Join Date: January 10, 2012
Posts: 2,207
45 acp defense

I am interested in the Hornady XTP's for my 1911 for self defense. Of the 185, 200 and 230 gr rounds which would seem best suited ? I have read and heard say to use the same weight bullet that you practice with, is this a truism or falsehood ?
rebs is offline  
Old October 27, 2013, 10:36 AM   #2
g.willikers
Senior Member
 
Join Date: September 28, 2008
Posts: 5,041
The main reason to practice with what you carry is more for accuracy expectations than skill development.
Different weight bullets have slightly different points of impact.
But how important that is for a .45 that might be used at close distances is probably not a big deal.
Trigger time is more important, so use what ever ammo you can most afford to shoot and get the most practice.
__________________
Lock the doors, they're coming in the windows.
g.willikers is offline  
Old October 27, 2013, 11:16 AM   #3
JERRYS.
Senior Member
 
Join Date: September 23, 2013
Location: Alabama
Posts: 506
I prefer a heavy for caliber load; in .45acp would be 230gr. @ 850 fps or so....

consistency is the point of using the same load.

same poi, same recoil, same feeding, same recoil "feel"...
JERRYS. is offline  
Old October 27, 2013, 07:52 PM   #4
shortwave
Senior Member
 
Join Date: December 17, 2007
Location: SOUTHEAST, OHIO
Posts: 5,930
I like the 230 for a full size 1911 but 185 for my 3 inchers.

If I were going to choose just one for both full size and compact 1911's it would be the 230gr.

Quote:
I have read and heard say to use the same weight bullet that you practice with, is this a truism or falsehood ?
For a SD pistol that would be a truism. As JERRYS so eloquently explained.
shortwave is offline  
Old October 28, 2013, 10:13 AM   #5
BigTex308
Senior Member
 
Join Date: October 26, 2012
Location: Texas
Posts: 259
I only run:

Speer Gold Dots
Federal HydraShocks
Corbon
Winchester PDX-1


And only 200gr and 230gr.



Ike
BigTex308 is offline  
Old October 28, 2013, 12:37 PM   #6
ClydeFrog
Junior member
 
Join Date: May 1, 2010
Posts: 5,798
The Army .45 takes no jive!....

I read that once in a 1980s era gun magazine.
Really, for my .45acp, I use the Hornady Critical Duty .45acp; a 220gr +P round that is known to perform well in the FBI protocol tests.
For home defense, I use a 8rd magazine of Magsafe SWAT. I switch because I feel the SWAT load would do better with environment & not ricochet or injury a neighbor/bystander.
I use a M&P Compact too not a 1911a1 pistol.

CF
ClydeFrog is offline  
Old October 28, 2013, 10:27 PM   #7
KyJim
Senior Member
 
Join Date: July 26, 2005
Location: The Bluegrass
Posts: 7,541
The XTP would be a good round, though not the best available. They tend to penetrate more than many hollow points before starting to expand. I like 230 gr. bullets.
__________________
Jim's Rules of Carry: 1. Any gun is better than no gun. 2. A gun that is reliable is better than a gun that is not. 3. A hole in the right place is better than a hole in the wrong place. 4. A bigger hole is a better hole.
KyJim is offline  
Old October 29, 2013, 06:26 PM   #8
Colt46
Senior Member
 
Join Date: November 25, 2002
Location: Campbell Ca
Posts: 828
Ammo is a lot less critical the bigger the bore

Still, for shorter barrel guns you might want a higher velocity load for your hollowpoint loads.
Colt46 is offline  
Old October 29, 2013, 07:51 PM   #9
rebs
Senior Member
 
Join Date: January 10, 2012
Posts: 2,207
Thanks for all the replies, I appreciate it. I am going to buy a few and test them and decide which to use. I understand the mass of the 230 and also the higher velocity of the 200 or even the 185. I'll buy a box of each and check the poi and recoil and see which I am more comfortable with and most accurate with..
rebs is offline  
Old October 29, 2013, 08:00 PM   #10
kutz
Senior Member
 
Join Date: September 24, 2012
Location: New Mexico USA
Posts: 309
+ 2 for shortwave & ClydeFrog
kutz is offline  
Old October 30, 2013, 06:01 AM   #11
rebs
Senior Member
 
Join Date: January 10, 2012
Posts: 2,207
I am going to look into the magsafe swat bullets for home defense, would they make a good carry bullet as well ? I mean out in a public place there is concern for innocent by standers, a round passing through the assailant or a ricochet.
rebs is offline  
Old October 30, 2013, 11:25 AM   #12
RickB
Senior Member
 
Join Date: March 1, 2000
Location: Western WA
Posts: 5,678
You can't depend on expansion, and .45 bullets are essentially pre-expanded, so go for penetration. Fears of "overpentration" notwithstanding, I'll take all the penetration I can get.
Expanding bullets are designed to work within a specific velocity range, so the idea that you will help ensure expansion in short-barreled guns by using a lighter, faster bullet ignores that the ligher bullet is also going slower than it would in a longer barrel, and so also outside the ideal velocity range. All the more reason to go with a heavy bullet, so you at least get good penetration, expansion or no.
RickB is offline  
Old October 30, 2013, 01:10 PM   #13
ClydeFrog
Junior member
 
Join Date: May 1, 2010
Posts: 5,798
carry vs home protection rounds....

You could use a well made frangible like Glaser Silver or MagSafe SWAT for general carry but Id go with a proven LE type round that might do better against common barriers like auto glass, building materials, clothing(leather denim down/insulation) etc. In short, the FBI protocol conditions.

Out in the open, you might encounter the same basic circumstances as a sworn LE officer. A thug or felon may be behind cover or they may be near a vehicle.
Now if you are in a densely populated area or work somewhere where common JHPs may have problems(court building, shipyard, medical center/clinic, etc), you might choose a frangible load with a JHP or FMJ in the spare magazines(if required).

CF
www.Magsafeonline.com www.natchezss.com www.Shopcorbon.com www.drtammo.com www.sgammo.com
ClydeFrog is offline  
Old November 2, 2013, 11:34 AM   #14
Stevie-Ray
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 22, 2007
Location: The shores of Lake Huron
Posts: 4,506
My EDC is a 3 inch 1911, and when I bought it, I tried a variety of loads, all 230 gr because that's what I prefer. It seemed happiest accuracy-wise with Hydra-Shoks, so that is what I've fed it for over 10 years.
__________________
Stevie-Ray
Join the NRA/ILA
I am the weapon; my gun is a tool. It's regrettable that with some people those descriptors are reversed.
Stevie-Ray is offline  
Old November 2, 2013, 12:40 PM   #15
Derbel McDillet
Senior Member
 
Join Date: September 6, 2013
Posts: 247
I suggest 230gr Federal HST. If you can't find HST then 230gr Speer Gold Dot.

You can purchase these loads in 50 round boxes with a little searching. IMO if you're buying 20 or 25 round boxes of defense ammo then you' re getting ripped off.
Derbel McDillet is offline  
Old November 10, 2013, 09:53 AM   #16
Axelwik
Senior Member
 
Join Date: March 12, 2012
Location: Land of Enchantment
Posts: 371
For carry I use 230-grain Gold Dot LE for both my full-size 1911 and XDs.

For practice and plinking I cast 225-grain RN and 200-grain SWC. I load them for the same "feel" as the Gold Dots.
Axelwik is offline  
Old November 18, 2013, 04:33 AM   #17
chokeoloko
Member
 
Join Date: March 25, 2012
Posts: 24
I highly recommend the 200 grain round. I use it in my self defense 1911
chokeoloko is offline  
Old November 18, 2013, 08:03 AM   #18
rebs
Senior Member
 
Join Date: January 10, 2012
Posts: 2,207
Thank you guys for all your replies, I appreciate it.
rebs is offline  
Old November 18, 2013, 01:04 PM   #19
Patriot86
Senior Member
 
Join Date: December 23, 2010
Location: Chicagoland
Posts: 1,293
In 45, 40 and 9MM I have always been a big fan of Speer Gold Dot's.
Its what I own/shoot the most of as far as SD/Duty Ammo.

I had a problem with my last 1911, a Springfield, feeding Critical Defense and similar polymer-tipped ammo so I stopped buying it. My XDm45 feeds it all the same.
__________________
"....The swords of others will set you your limits".
Patriot86 is offline  
Old November 20, 2013, 11:04 PM   #20
cookie5
Senior Member
 
Join Date: September 1, 2011
Posts: 199
230 GN bonded bullets are what you want,+Ps are not needed.
cookie5 is offline  
Old November 21, 2013, 06:10 AM   #21
Hal
Senior Member
 
Join Date: October 9, 1998
Location: Ohio USA
Posts: 7,435
Quote:
I have read and heard say to use the same weight bullet that you practice with, is this a truism or falsehood ?
I hate to use Hollywood as an example, but, every once in a while they do come up with some truth.

In the movie, The Outlaw Josey Wales, they talk about getting "an edge".

An edge is anything that gives you an advantage over your opponent.
If using the same weight and velocity bullet for practice as you use for defense delivers more consistent shot placement, then you've gained "an edge".
Granted, it's very slim, but, it's just that much more than the other guy has.
Put enough of them together and you just might overcome one of those pesky Murphy type things.
Hal is offline  
Old November 24, 2013, 12:39 AM   #22
Gary L. Griffiths
Senior Member
 
Join Date: April 7, 2000
Location: AZ, IA, WA
Posts: 1,251
I use WWB 230-gr ball ammo for practice, and carry Federal HST 230-gr+Ps for "serious social occasions." There isn't that much difference in recoil between the two, and they shoot to substantially the same point of impact.

Oh, and pay no attention to that Internet lore about a short barrel not giving sufficient velocity to expand a modern JHP. Here's a HST I fired into water with my 3.3" Springfield XDS.

__________________
Violence is an ugly thing, but not the ugliest of things. The decayed and degraded state of moral and valorous feeling which believes that nothing is worth violence is much worse. Those who have nothing for which they are willing to fight; nothing they care about more than their own personal safety; are miserable creatures who have no chance of being free, unless made and kept so by the exertions of those better than themselves. Gary L. Griffiths, Chief Instructor, Advanced Force Tactics, Inc. (Paraphrasing John Stuart Mill)
Gary L. Griffiths is offline  
Old November 24, 2013, 12:59 AM   #23
JohnKSa
Staff
 
Join Date: February 12, 2001
Location: DFW Area
Posts: 18,280
Quote:
Oh, and pay no attention to that Internet lore about a short barrel not giving sufficient velocity to expand a modern JHP. Here's a HST I fired into water with my 3.3" Springfield XDS.
While it is true that modern premium quality self-defense JHP rounds are pretty good at expanding even from compact guns, it is worth pointing out that water testing generally results in more consistent and more pronounced expansion than is usually produced by more conventional and representative gelatin testing.

I'm not saying that round wouldn't have expanded in gelatin, just cautioning against assuming that water testing results are representative of what would happen in the real world.
__________________
Did you know that there is a TEXAS State Rifle Association?
JohnKSa is offline  
Old November 24, 2013, 01:41 PM   #24
bikerbill
Senior Member
 
Join Date: September 19, 2007
Location: Lago Vista TX
Posts: 2,352
I use Hornady Critical Defense 185s in my nightstand 1911 and in the two guns I carry -- a Kimber UCII and Springer XDs ... they're the most accurate .45 rounds I've tried and have never caused a feed problem ...
__________________
"If all guns were built with mechanisms that kept them from firing when held sideways, we could end gang violence." humorist Frank Fleming
bikerbill is offline  
Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 06:49 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
This site and contents, including all posts, Copyright © 1998-2014 S.W.A.T. Magazine
Copyright Complaints: Please direct DMCA Takedown Notices to the registered agent: thefiringline.com
Contact Us
Page generated in 0.12409 seconds with 7 queries