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Old November 3, 2013, 10:31 PM   #176
shortwave
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True, but I'm not sure in some cases there is a real choice
As has been stated before "there is always a choice".
Life is full of them in most every waking moment.

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I would say that since the rule is immoral there is no obligation to obey it
I would say that just because you think a rule is immoral does not make it so to everyone. Especially since you are on private property while at work that you have no obligation to be there and have no choice in the rules set forth by the company. Of course, unless you own the company.

If you think a certain act is immoral and post that you don't want that act performed on your property, I then come to your house and perform that act , do I have a right to do so cause I don't think the act is immoral? And that you are immoral for having the rule you do.
Would you throw me off your property? Or would you accept the fact that you think the acts immoral, I don't so it's okay.
Do I have the right to come on your property and deceive you and perform that act?

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Is the choice of death or serious lifelong injury better than possible jail time...
...and then possibly being a convicted felon and not even being legal to have a gun at your house the rest of your life to protect your family and probably not being able to find further employment cause of the felony.

I finished it for ya.

Again life is full of choices. There are some states/places that getting caught cc'ing while at work would probably only get you fired. Then there are places of employment that getting caught cc'ing could just as easily get you a felony rap.

I guess one has to weigh the possibility of needing a gun at work with the consequences for getting caught.
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Old November 3, 2013, 11:14 PM   #177
Tennessee Gentleman
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Originally Posted by Aguila Blanca
but a business owner also has a "moral" obligation (to himself, to any investors in his business, and to his employees) to do what's best for the business.
Just as I have a moral obligation to do what's best for me and my family. If jobs are not available to me and the ones that are are dangerous then my obligation is to do what is best for me.

The rule is immoral because it is allowing a condition to exist that could be remedied at the expense of another. Therefore, the other has no obligation to obey it.
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Old November 3, 2013, 11:21 PM   #178
Tennessee Gentleman
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Originally Posted by shortwave
If you think a certain act is immoral and post that you don't want that act performed on your property, I then come to your house and perform that act , do I have a right to do so cause I don't think the act is immoral?
If you have to come to my house and there is a danger to you I know of and will not mitigate then yes. Otherwise no. Remember the context and don't pain it with too broad a brush.

Quote:
Originally Posted by shortwave
and then possibly being a convicted felon and not even being legal to have a gun at your house the rest of your life to protect your family and probably not being able to find further employment cause of the felony.
Still...or be dead or injured seriously for life? Which would you pick...be honest and I'm talking about the odds being very good that you will face that danger.

BTW in what states is it a felony to carry at work? At least if you have a legal permit. Now, as I said before I am not talking about carrying in the Pentagon but a stop and rob. Again, keep it in context.

Quote:
Originally Posted by shortwave
As has been stated before "there is always a choice".
Life is full of them in most every waking moment.
And as I have stated before I reject that all "choices" that are coerced or the outcomes so draconian are real (from a moral perspective).
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Old November 3, 2013, 11:30 PM   #179
Tennessee Gentleman
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So shortwave,

Time for you to pony up.

Your choices are; work a dangerous job where there is a good chance you will be attacked by a criminal. You can't quit (or if you do your family will suffer great deprivation) and your company will not allow CCW. Do you not carry and face the strong possibility of being killed or injured by a criminal? Or do you carry anyway and face being fired?
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Old November 4, 2013, 12:15 AM   #180
RX-79G
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I would argue that it is more immoral to allow uncertified people to bring loaded guns to work vs. denying one employee to carry. What moral person prioritizes one person over a group of people.

I'll answer TG's question to Shortwave:
Carry something(s) other than a gun.

No one ever died from dropping mace or a bat. It isn't like guns are force fields that prevent violence. They just provide another option when threatened - an option that may actually increase your likelihood of being killed in some situations. There is no panacea for violent crime.
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Old November 4, 2013, 12:16 AM   #181
Tom Servo
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After 7 pages of discussion on this topic, it doesn't seem that there has been any change in heart by anyone.
I agree. We've had a good showing, but there's not really much more to say, so let's end on a high note.
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