The Firing Line Forums

Go Back   The Firing Line Forums > The Hide > The Art of the Rifle: Bolt, Lever, and Pump Action

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old October 25, 2013, 05:10 PM   #26
steveNChunter
Senior Member
 
Join Date: December 14, 2012
Location: Southern Appalachian Mtns
Posts: 1,296
I'm not a Browning fan but I won't try to talk you out of one if that's what you have already decided on.

All I will say is take a look at the Tikka T3 lite stainless.

The .270 is a great choice for mulies and elk. 7mm RM is fine too but as stated earlier it has extra recoil and muzzle blast without any worthwhile advantages over the .270

You might also consider the .270 wsm if you'd like a shorter action
__________________
I have a very strict gun control policy: if there's a gun around, I want to be in control of it. - Clint Eastwood
steveNChunter is online now  
Old October 26, 2013, 11:19 AM   #27
PVL
Senior Member
 
Join Date: February 20, 2013
Posts: 169
I've looked at the Winchester Short Magnums and I think the cartridge is just fine - but the rifles are generally made with too short a barrel for the cartridge.

Some of them are as short as 22".

Too much hot air from gun writers about "short, light and handy" rifles as if they had forgotten that they were writing about a magnum cartridge that needs at least 24" of barrel in order to work properly.

A demand was created for "light, short, handy" short magnums, so that's what the manufacturers made.

I'll be honest about the Tikka, what turns me off of that brand is that I would perpetually be kicking myself for not going ahead and getting a Sako. I understand that they are accurate but so is the Ruger American, if accuracy were my only criteria.

The problem is that I have been spoiled to using the upper-crust stuff and though I have bought less expensive guns plenty of times, I have never really been happy with them, no matter how well they shoot. - They always wind up being traded off for something else after a while.

I suppose that means that I'm a gun snot and if so, then so be it. I've noticed that I spend a lot more time holding and admiring my guns than shooting them, especially on a hunt and it's a lot easier for me to work up admiration for something that is admirable.

But that's just me. I'd rather spend two or three times as much on a Browning, a Sako or a Weatherby that won't shoot noticeably better than a lot of the entry-level guns that you can pick up for a couple of hundred bucks at a chain store.

If money were truly no object, then I would just buy a Mauser 03 model with a nice selection of barrels, bolt heads and magazines.


http://www.mauser.com/Specifications.144.0.html?&L=1


Interchangeable take-down barrels and bolt heads, good looks, top quality, modern design, it's got it all.

Last edited by PVL; October 26, 2013 at 11:26 AM.
PVL is offline  
Old October 26, 2013, 11:31 AM   #28
PVL
Senior Member
 
Join Date: February 20, 2013
Posts: 169
It looks like I got what I asked for here, good advice that helped me decide about the cartridge. - I'm going with the 270.

I went about this completely backwards... The clever way to go is to pick a cartridge that matches your intended use - then shop among the brands and models that feature your chosen cartridge.

The barrel tuner is important to me though, so that narrows it down to Browning. Winchester bought licensing to use the BOSS tuner, but I don't see it in their catalog so that eliminates the great model 70s.

There is an aftermarket tuner available at Brownells that can be mounted on just about anything, but it only comes with a muzzle-brake and I'd rather take a beating from recoil than blow somebody's ears off. If it had an option like the BOSS does, I would consider it very seriously.

Last edited by PVL; October 26, 2013 at 11:38 AM.
PVL is offline  
Old October 26, 2013, 12:52 PM   #29
JD0x0
Senior Member
 
Join Date: January 30, 2013
Posts: 834
.270 win and 7mm mag are pretty similar on paper. If you're shooting the 7mm mag from a short-ish barrel, 22-24inches, then the .270 is probably the better choice, as the 7mm wont have much of an advantage over the .270 with that barrel length. With a barrel that short, you are essentially turning any extra MV and ME you may have had, and turning it into extra recoil and muzzle flash.
The 7mm has some better high BC bullet choices, in the heaviest weights, but the Nosler accubond 'long range' makes a .277 150 grain, with a listed G1 BC of .625, which is quite high.

With that bullet, on paper, you have over 1550ft/lbs of energy @ 500 yards and over 1000ft/lbs energy @ 850 yards.
JD0x0 is offline  
Old October 26, 2013, 01:26 PM   #30
Paul B.
Senior Member
 
Join Date: March 28, 1999
Location: Tucson, AZ
Posts: 2,634
"Would I be able to get by, shooting muleys and possibly an elk with the .270?"

Well, you've already decided on the .270 and I say great choice even though it's not my number one favorite. I've just been having more fun with some of the more slightly exotic rounds so although I've had a .270 of one sort or another, I have shot targets and game with the round. Except for my Ruger #1A, all my .270's have had 24" barrels I shoot no factory ammo and only 150 gr. bullets, the Sierra game King and Nosler Partition. The only exception to use of factory ammo is one box to take fired cartridge measurements and get a rough idea of accuracy. Speaking of accuracy, I currently have four rifles chambered to the .270 and all are sub-MOA with my handloads except the #1 which still stays right around an inch. I shoot rifles from the .22 Hornet to the .416 Rigby and the easiest cartridge I've found to get an accurate load has been the .270 hands down. I definitely would not feel handicaaped if all I had was a .270 to hunt with. Not necesarilly happy but not handicapped.
Paul B.
__________________
COMPROMISE IS NOT AN OPTION!
Paul B. is offline  
Old October 26, 2013, 01:57 PM   #31
steveNChunter
Senior Member
 
Join Date: December 14, 2012
Location: Southern Appalachian Mtns
Posts: 1,296
PVL,

If you are into expensive, eye-pleasing rifles, have you seen the Winchester model 70 Jack O' Connor tribute rifle? I know it doesn't have the Boss system but man it's one beautiful rifle. I'd love to have one someday if funds allow.

Of course it's only available in .270, JOC's favorite
these first pics are from a thread here on TFL started by Mystro, who owns one of these rifles




I believe they were only made in 2012, and they were from Winchester's custom shop.
__________________
I have a very strict gun control policy: if there's a gun around, I want to be in control of it. - Clint Eastwood

Last edited by steveNChunter; October 26, 2013 at 02:06 PM.
steveNChunter is online now  
Old October 26, 2013, 02:24 PM   #32
Kachok
Senior Member
 
Join Date: January 22, 2012
Posts: 171
^ Drool
Kachok is offline  
Old October 26, 2013, 04:18 PM   #33
JerryM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: April 4, 1999
Location: New Mexico
Posts: 1,884
The JOC rifle is a beauty, but too heavy in my opinion.
Jerry
__________________
Ecclesiastes 12:13 *┬ÂLet us hear the conclusion of the whole matter: Fear God, and keep his commandments: for this is the whole duty of man.
14 *For God shall bring every work into judgment, with every secret thing, whether it be good, or whether it be evil.
JerryM is offline  
Old October 26, 2013, 11:32 PM   #34
publius
Senior Member
 
Join Date: January 25, 2005
Location: Mississippi/Texas
Posts: 2,450
That O'Connor would be beautiful if they had left the signature off the triggerguard and the "the .270 will not let you down" on the receiver.
__________________
"Suppose you were an idiot, and suppose you were a member of Congress, but I repeat myself." Mark Twain
publius is offline  
Old October 26, 2013, 11:57 PM   #35
Ruger480
Senior Member
 
Join Date: February 23, 2013
Location: Central Iowa
Posts: 525
X2 on Publius' statement
Ruger480 is offline  
Old October 27, 2013, 09:51 AM   #36
Colt46
Senior Member
 
Join Date: November 25, 2002
Location: Campbell Ca
Posts: 856
The .270 will be more than enough

I'd even opt for something like a .260 or 7mm-08 so you can shave off a few ounces by going to a short action.
Colt46 is offline  
Old October 27, 2013, 11:31 AM   #37
Kachok
Senior Member
 
Join Date: January 22, 2012
Posts: 171
When talking featherweight "mountain" rifles I don't think of 270s or 280s in a 20-22" barrel give me a short action 308 based cartridge anyday. There is so little difference in performance between the 270 and 7mm-08 in a short tube that it is hardly worth the mention. The 7mm-08 will recoil less, have less muzzle blast and weigh a few ounces less to boot.
Kachok is offline  
Old October 27, 2013, 12:31 PM   #38
tdoyka
Senior Member
 
Join Date: October 3, 2013
Location: windber, pa
Posts: 114
take whatever you want!!! just as long as it shoots a 270 win
tdoyka is offline  
Old October 27, 2013, 01:15 PM   #39
Paul B.
Senior Member
 
Join Date: March 28, 1999
Location: Tucson, AZ
Posts: 2,634
"When talking featherweight "mountain" rifles I don't think of 270s or 280s in a 20-22" barrel give me a short action 308 based cartridge anyday. "

Oh really? Currently I have a comercial FN Mauser in .270 Win. with a soda straw thin barrel that is a moutain hunter's dream at 7 pounds with scope, full magazine and leather sling. It will put three 150 gr. Nosler Partitions into .75" all day long and sometime less when I really do my part. Velocity is 2900 plus a couple with my handload. I hate to say if but the stock is ugly as sin. I believe, to quote the late Jack O'Connor, "It has a stock so ugly it would abort a lady crocodile." I'd restock it but I'm afraid I would lose that almost perfect level of accuracy. Kind of a, "If it ain't broke, don't fix it." situation. I never argue with Mr. Murphy.
Paul B.
__________________
COMPROMISE IS NOT AN OPTION!
Paul B. is offline  
Old October 27, 2013, 04:55 PM   #40
Mystro
Senior Member
 
Join Date: November 26, 2004
Location: Central Pa.
Posts: 1,162
Just some background of the JOC rifle.....The JOC rifle was the most exacting and researched custom rifle Winchester has ever done. The Jack O'Connor Center had to authorize every detail of the rifle. The family also took Jack's famous #2 rifle from the museum and let Winchester take it apart to laser measure the stock. Winchester went into their special archive wood vault to select the French Walnut for the stock. Lord only knows how old that wood is. . Winchester said it was their most honored collaboration they have ever done on a Custom Shop Rifle. I spoke to Jack's son about the collaboration and it was a big deal because it will never be done again. The family only wanted one tribute rifle done by Winchester. Even the Jack O'Connor Center supplies the custom rifle cases with each rifle's serial number. About every gun publication made it rifle of the year and it was put on the very short list of rifle of the century. If your a Winchester M70 fan, JOC fan, or 270 fan, it is once in a lifetime must own rifle. You don't need to talk someone into buying a Rolls Royce. You kinda just know.

The JOC rifle even though it is a feather weight is about 1/2 heavier than a synthetic stock gun but for what it brings in confidence, ballance and beauty, its AAA grade French walnut is worth it. A black plastic stock might shed some weight but.....it would be like saying your 18k gold wedding ring would be lighter made out of aluminum.


its also a shooter.

__________________
"I'm a good guy with a gun" What do I care if I give up some freedom or rights?....The Goverment will take care of me. This kind of thinking is now in the majority and it should concern you.

"Ask not what you can do for your country, but what free entitlements you can bleed from your country"

Last edited by Mystro; October 27, 2013 at 05:48 PM.
Mystro is offline  
Old October 27, 2013, 05:40 PM   #41
PVL
Senior Member
 
Join Date: February 20, 2013
Posts: 169
I know what I want now - but will have to wait for my M1A Scout Squad to sell before I can order everything, though.

It costs a bit more, but I'll probably go with Conetrol "custum" rings and bases in stainless for the Browning Stainless Stalker in .270 with BOSS.

http://www.browning.com/products/cat...id=035&tid=008

I've had Conetrol rings and bases in the past... They are very strong, can be slammed down very low - and nothing else looks as good, period.

http://www.conetrol.com/images-pg/70C2.jpg

I've had them on a Winchester model 70 Sporter Magnum in .338 Win mag, and on a Browning BLR in .308. In both cases, I was completely satisfied.
PVL is offline  
Old October 28, 2013, 08:07 AM   #42
longranger
Senior Member
 
Join Date: November 4, 2008
Location: Buffalo WY
Posts: 1,056
Choices for .277" vs .284" bullets the choice is obvious for me. .277" suffers from weak bullet selection. 7mm-08 will do every thing the 270 can and then some,it is blessed with the efficacy of the .308. Short action helps by shaving a few ounces off the weight of the rifle.Did I mention bullet selection ? Not very many spin off cartridges from the 270,just a goofy dia. it works in the 270 and not much else.

Last edited by longranger; October 28, 2013 at 08:15 AM.
longranger is offline  
Old October 28, 2013, 01:45 PM   #43
FrankenMauser
Senior Member
 
Join Date: August 25, 2008
Location: 1B ID
Posts: 6,791
Quote:
Choices for .277" vs .284" bullets the choice is obvious for me. .277" suffers from weak bullet selection.
....Did I mention bullet selection ?
How many bullets do you actually need?

For me, it's just one: 140 gr Nosler Partitions (and I'd be just fine with 130s, instead).

Last time I checked, every big game tag I have filled with my .270 was the result of a bullet passing through the animal's vital organs, rather than the number of different .277" bullets on the shelves in my reloading room.


And...
If you compare .277" and .284" bullet selections, the vast majority of "extra" bullets available in .284" diameter are match bullets, not hunting bullets. Match bullets are useless in a mountain rifle. So, there's no point in even considering the availability of such things.

Even if you do consider .277" bullet selection to be "limited", just for hunting bullets in the 110-150 gr weight range, you still get:
Berger Hunting VLDs, Hunting FBs, Classic Hunter FBs, Classic Hunter VLDs, and more...
Barnes TSXs, TTSXs, LRXs, and TAC-X.
CT Ballistic Silvertips.
Cutting Edge Hunting VLDs, ESP Raptors, ESP Raptor ERs, and Tactical Hunting VLDs.
Federal Trophy Copper Tipped,
Hornady SSTs, Interlocks, Interbonds, and GMXs.
Nosler Partitions, Ballistic Tips, Accubonds, Accubond LRs, E-Tips, and more...
Norma Oryx, and Vulcans.
North Fork Bonded bullets.
Remington Core-Lokts, Core-Lokt Ultra Bondeds, and Bronze Points.
Sierra Pro-Hunters, and Game Kings.
Speer Hot-Cors, (basic) Spitzers, Grand Slams, Deep Curls, Trophy-Bonded-Tipped, and more...
Swift A-Frames, and Scirocco IIs.
Winchester Silvertips, XP3s, and Power Max Bondeds.
Woodleigh Soft Points, and Protected Points.
And many more....

If you can't find a good hunting bullet in there, you have a serious problem.
__________________
"Such is the strange way that man works -- first he virtually destroys a species and then does everything in his power to restore it."
FrankenMauser is offline  
Old October 28, 2013, 02:02 PM   #44
JD0x0
Senior Member
 
Join Date: January 30, 2013
Posts: 834
^^
You forgot Matrix bullets, they make some pretty cool 165 and 175 grain VLD's in .277
With bullets, like 75grain Armor Piercing, 83-110grain varmint bullets, and up to the 180 grain Woodleigh PP, with just about every weight in between, I'd hardly call the .277 caliber limited in bullet selection.
With light bullets it's pretty much a .22-250 on steroids, shooting bullets twice the mass of .22-250 loadings, with similar velocity, trajectory and ballistic coefficients.
With heavier bullets, it's pretty much a slightly flatter and lighter recoiling .30-06
IMO the .270 Winchester, with the right loads, has the potential to give you everything you'd want or need, from a .22-250, .243, and .308/.30-06, in one caliber. With one exception, it can't be used in a 'short action.'
Hardly a tradeoff, IMO. I have no problem carrying my Scoped Ruger M77 in the mountains. I'm not sure of the exact weight, but it's probably a hair over 8.5lbs with the scope and 4 rounds in the mag. I don't think the weight savings of a short action would make any difference to me.
JD0x0 is offline  
Old October 28, 2013, 02:20 PM   #45
Geo_Erudite
Senior Member
 
Join Date: January 26, 2013
Location: Washburn, WI
Posts: 127
Quote:
Originally Posted by JD0x0
You forgot Matrix bullets, they make some pretty cool 165 and 175 grain VLD's in .277
With bullets, like 75grain Armor Piercing, 83-110grain varmint bullets, and up to the 180 grain Woodleigh PP, with just about every weight in between, I'd hardly call the .277 caliber limited in bullet selection.
What limits the .270 now isn't bullet selection, it is the twist rate of its barrels. I doubt any of the factory rifles have a 1:9'"or 1:8" twist rate to handle such bullets.
Geo_Erudite is offline  
Old October 28, 2013, 03:20 PM   #46
JD0x0
Senior Member
 
Join Date: January 30, 2013
Posts: 834
Quote:
What limits the .270 now isn't bullet selection, it is the twist rate of its barrels. I doubt any of the factory rifles have a 1:9'"or 1:8" twist rate to handle such bullets.
I have no experience shooting them, but the 165grain VLD, and Woodleigh's 180 PP are both said to stabilize in standard 1:10 twist barrels. The Matrix 175grain VLD would need a faster twist, though.
That bullet isn't really needed, IMO, unless you're shooting 1000+ yards. The 150 grain Nosler accubond 'Long range' bullet lists a G1 BC of .625 which is comparable to 168VLD's in .284 caliber.

Last edited by JD0x0; October 28, 2013 at 03:26 PM.
JD0x0 is offline  
Old October 28, 2013, 08:57 PM   #47
reynolds357
Senior Member
 
Join Date: December 10, 2012
Posts: 2,263
If you are worried about weight, take a look at the Savage light weight hunter. 6 lbs even in .270 Win. I have one in 6.5 Creedmoor at 5.5 lbs. Its a sweet rifle.
The Browning is a good rifle. I just thought I would mention the Savage since weight is of utmost concern to you.
reynolds357 is offline  
Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 07:50 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
This site and contents, including all posts, Copyright © 1998-2014 S.W.A.T. Magazine
Copyright Complaints: Please direct DMCA Takedown Notices to the registered agent: thefiringline.com
Contact Us
Page generated in 0.12064 seconds with 7 queries