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Old January 14, 2001, 11:30 PM   #1
Matrix
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Could any of you that compete with a shotgun tell me what you use, what shells you shoot and how you carry them, and how you've modified it?

I'm considering giving it a try.
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Old January 15, 2001, 12:14 AM   #2
Cat
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I compete with a Remington 1100 Synthetic in 12 gauge.
The vent rib barrel has been cut to 21", bored and threaded for choke tubes, I usually use the Imp. Cyl. tube. A six round side-saddle, and a seven round magazine tube are installed. I carry extra ammo in my right front trouser pocket. I can get a whole box in there. (And hope I don't have to go prone!)

I use a simple black nylon sling that I loop around my neck. I can just drop the SG and transition to handgun and the SG is right there at my chest.

I shoot 2 3/4" shells, either W-W AA or Federal 1 1/8 oz. of 7 1/2 shot target shells if they call for "bird shot", 00 or #4 buck for steel, and slugs when required. Usually W-W or Remington 1 oz.

I use the 1100 for softer recoil for quicker follow-up shots and I have arthritis and AC Impingment problems in both shoulders. This is one reason I don't shoot a Benelli or Beretta.

If I keep it reasonably clean it does not let me down.

Neil Casper

[Edited by Cat on 01-15-2001 at 09:11 AM]
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Old January 15, 2001, 05:24 AM   #3
dick w. holliday
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3 gun shotgun

i use Rem 1100 with mag capacity of 16 shells speed loaders from JP enterprizes/EZ loader to replace little silver button on underside of shell carrier/one of the orange magnetic front sights which attaches to rib/large bolt handle...Dick
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Old January 15, 2001, 02:11 PM   #4
TMC
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I use an 1100 with a 10 round mag tube, PDP5 red dot sight, mec-tec speed loaders and the ez loader ramp. Mostly use #6 shot. I have recenly found that cheap Winchester 2-3/4 ammo is slightly longer and only 9 will fit in the mag so if you want every last round available use quality ammo like WW AA. Depending of the course of fire I carry 4 4-shot speedloaders and a pouch that can carry a full box of loose if need be. One of the faster hand reload ideas I've seen is the forearm band shell carrier on your off hand forearm. If you flip the gun over to load it the shells are right next to the loading gate just like the side saddle shell carriers.
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Old January 15, 2001, 02:22 PM   #5
TMC
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If your going to "give it a try" don't buy anything until you do. For my first match I used a $179 dollat mossberg 500 wiht a 4 round compacity. Most of the first itmers used pump guns. For me the first match was all it took and I was hooked. My point is don't spend a ton of money to "try" a sport. I had a blast with what I had. Do a couple of matchs and see what other are using and what you think you need. In the matches I've shot you cannot gear up and be ready for every stage. Every stage you may need a different combination of holders, mag carriers, pouches etc. I get by with a cheap 6 dollar pouch I've used for trap shooting, my IPSC rig and the mec-tec speed loaders. I've seen a lot of guys show up with all the tactical gear looking like they are going to take a hill or rush some terrorists and most of it is useless. When you have to move fast and shoot you want the bare minimun on you, the last thing you want is too much if you have to go prone, shoot kneeling or whatever. You need a holster with mag carriers, some way to hold extra shotgun shells and a way to hold a spare rifle mag (a pocket will do to start). Then just show up and shoot. If you do you'll be hooked.
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Old January 15, 2001, 02:39 PM   #6
Matrix
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Thanks, guys. This is the information I was looking for.
I'm planning on using my 870, then upgrade when and if I like it. I was planning on the 1100 or the 11-87. Do any of you have a ported barrel to reduce muzzle rise? What barrel length? I really like the shot performance from the 26 in. tube on my Remington, but I assume that this will put me at a disadvantage on corners and barricades.
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Old January 15, 2001, 04:19 PM   #7
TaxPhd
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dick w. holliday,

Tell me about your 1100 with 16 shell capacity. Is that a typo, or does your gun have a 45" barrel?
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Old January 15, 2001, 04:33 PM   #8
NAD
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To be competitive you need a shotgun that will hold at least 8 shells. The key to shooting a shotgun in competition is reloading. If you plan to shoot in the Limited division you will be restricted to 8 rounds in the tube, iron sights and no porting. Shot shell length is usually limited to no shorter than 2 3/4 in. The trick of using 2 inch shells to get more in the tube is illegal at most IPSC 3-gun matches.

For ammo I generally use #6 shot on steel and reduced recoil slugs on paper targets.

You don't want a long barrel. I have an 18 inch Benelli M1 S90 with screw-in chokes that works very well going though doors, shooting through ports, around corners, etc. I know some guys with mag tubes that will hold 18 and 19 shot shells in their "space guns" competing in Open class. They may not have to reload, but they might as well be shooting a musket when it comes to manuverability.

As far as reloading during a COF with a shotgun there are two methods that I see most competitors using with any success. Tec loaders and shell holders on the belt. Tec Loaders are quick, but require lots of practice especially on the move. Shell holders on the belt hold 6 shells lengthwise. With practice you can grab 2 or 3 at a time from the shell holder to load into the gun. Depending on the COF I will carry 2 or 3 shell holders on my belt.

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Old January 15, 2001, 05:43 PM   #9
TMC
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For porting or compensators the best one I've seen is the JP Enterprise. A buddy of mine has one and the thing nearly pulls away from you (zero recoil) and there is no muzzel rise.
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Old January 15, 2001, 11:41 PM   #10
Ned Roundtree
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Taxphd, that is probably not a typo. Several of the guys in my club have 1100 Rem with magazine tube extends beyond barrel to get max capacity. For myself, I use Rem 870 by scattergun tech, border patrol model, 18" barrel, extended magazine does not extend beyond barrel, ghost ring sights. No porting, no comps. Side saddle for extra shells.
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Old January 16, 2001, 10:50 AM   #11
Intel6
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16 rd 1100?

There are such things as 15 rd mad extensions, I am working on getting one right now. I have many options for setting up my 1100 for shooting SG matches. I have a 7, 10, and 12 rd mag extension and a few different barrels. If it is going to be an open course without alot of movement then the bigger extensions get installed. If it is going to be a stage with lots of movement, I will use the shorter barrel/extension or just use my 11-87 Police.
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Old January 16, 2001, 03:34 PM   #12
TaxPhd
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Ned,

I've also seen the tubes that extend beyond the barrel. My own magazine tube extends about an inch past the end of the barrel. However, 16 2.75" shells (I think that this is the shortest shell allowed in USPSA shotgun stages) equals a tube of 44" plus the space required for the compressed spring and the follower. If you shoot a barrel of 30" then you have 14" + of mag tube extending beyond the end of the barrel. Now, I don't shoot 3-gun as much as pistol, but I have never seen this. Is this really happening, or am I missing something???
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Old January 16, 2001, 05:15 PM   #13
EricO
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Matrix: I use a Rem870 Marine Magnum that has the following mods. - Syn. regular speedfeed stock/forened, Sage ghostrings w/tritium front bead, sidesaddle, and a Giles sling. It also has porting from a local smith, which works well with decreasing muzzle rise. I have shot it in total darkness to compare with an unported (but backbored) Vang Rem, and the muzzle blast is less than the unported version.
I started with two plastic Safariland shotshell (holds 2 each) holders, and then also purchased a shotshell holding nylon belt I wear above my regular belt.
I usually shoot the Sellier and Belliot 00buck, merely because of price, it's economical. I back it up with reduced recoil slugs usually, in the 2 shotshell holders, or a couple on the sidesaddle.
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Old January 16, 2001, 09:06 PM   #14
NAD
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TaxPhd - I had an 11 round tube made for my Benelli M1 S90. The tube extends 9 inches from the muzzle of the 18 inch barrel. I can get 13 shells in the gun.

Locally, there are guys using 17 to 19 round tubes made for their 1100's. Are they practical for a IPSC match? It depends on the COF. I'm the match director at one of our local IPSC clubs and I recently started putting on 3-gun matches. I can't wait for one of these guys to come to my match and run around shooting through ports and around walls with it.

By the way, anyone around the Houston Texas area who would like to shoot the 3-gun match it's scheduled for this Sunday the 21st. Match information can be found at http://www.uspsa4.org/matches.htm

I will be using Limited and Open divisions. Magazine capacity will be restricted to 8 shells for Limited. So don't worry about having to compete with the super long tube guys. You can get by with a 5 round pump gun. Just have a way to carry a box of shells with you.
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Old January 16, 2001, 10:25 PM   #15
Matrix
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Cat, do many courses of fire require a transition to a handgun? Or is this a practical set up for non-competition use? Either way, I think a smooth transition to a handgun is a valuable skill.
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Old January 17, 2001, 09:42 AM   #16
Ned Roundtree
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Taxphd, yes sir, that gun is quite a trip. Chromed mag extension is way beyond barrel length. Strictly a competition shotgun. Plus I have seen this configuration at other clubs including USPSA Three Gun Arizona State Finals.
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Old January 18, 2001, 03:00 PM   #17
wakal
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shotguns


Yep, I'll second (sixth? seventh?) that...LONG mag tubes, looks really silly, works well for its intended purpose.

I use a USAS-12 now, but started with an 870/ghost rings/sidesaddle/Scattergun Tech +1 mag extender. Like others said, you just lose SO much time in the reloading...



Alex
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Old January 18, 2001, 06:48 PM   #18
Cat
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Matrix

At one of the clubs where I shoot, we practice the transition mostly for improving our tactical skills in a competition format. We have actually used one course of fire where you carry and fire all three firearms in one string. It had lots of movement, using the whole 100 yard range from 100 yds. down to about 5 yds. Not real practical, but what a blast. This was done mostly for fun.
We use these mostly as a learning experience.
We aren't IDPA or USPSA. Just trying to learn good defensive tactics.

All of the IPSC 3 gun matches I've ever shot in had you using only one type firearm per scenario/stage.

Neil Casper

[Edited by Cat on 01-18-2001 at 10:17 PM]
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Old January 18, 2001, 10:44 PM   #19
NAD
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Cat - Combo stages are allowed in IPSC 3-gun matches. Safety is the main issue. No one wants to run downrange with a loaded gun left behind them. I plan to have two combo stages at my 3-gun match this weekend with downrange movement. The shooter must clear the firearm before proceeding ahead of it to the next shooting position to pick up the next firearm and continue with the stage.

How do you handle downrange movement with the firearms? Are they carried from position to position still loaded or dropped somewhere along the way?
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Old January 19, 2001, 08:49 PM   #20
Cat
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NAD,
Boy you are challenging my old memory!
If I remember correctly we started with our handguns loaded, safed and holstered. Shotgun slung with the mag. loaded, empty chamber, safety on. Rifle loaded and at low ready with the safety on.
From the 100, 75, and 50 yd. line you fire free-style with the rifle.
At the beep you fired one round each on five targets from the 100 yd. line, advanced to the 75 yd. line and re-engaged the same targets.
Mandatory reload, advance to the 50 yd. line and re-engage the same targets.
There is a bridge crossing the range in the 45 yd. area. As you cross the bridge you engage five staggered targets placed in front of you at various distances, one round on each as you move across the bridge. Place empty rifle on the table provided, mag out, bolt locked back, safety on. An RO will take possession and ensure the rifle is safe.
Between you and the back berm on the far left side of the range are five IDPA targets with 9" paper plates stapled to them. Cycle bolt to load chamber and fire one round on each plate with a majority of the shot on the plate or no points. If your SG only has a four round mag. you load the fifth as you need it.
Sling or carry empty, safed, bolt open shotgun and engage more targets with the handgun as you advance and cross back to the right.
This may not be exactly the COF but it's close.
The course is timed from the beep to the last shot fired. Most of us try very hard to make our shots count and slow down a little. (In my case I don't move very fast anyway).
Your heart is usually going pretty good when you finish. Many of the good pistol shooters really blow the handgun part due to hurrying at the end and being out of breath.
Safety is stressed. If you drop a firearm or do anything stupid, they stop the run.
There is no prize or award during these matches and most shooters try to do the right thing.
I hope this is clear enough and not too confusing.

Where is your match this weekend?

Neil
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Old January 20, 2001, 09:23 PM   #21
NAD
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The match is at the Somerville Gun Club outside of Houston, Texas
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Old January 21, 2001, 12:56 AM   #22
Cat
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Oooops!
I guess that's a little too far for me to drive in the morning.
Have a good shoot.
Neil Casper
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Old January 22, 2001, 02:17 AM   #23
George in NePa
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IPSC Remington 11\87 SP 12gauge
Tasco 40mm reddot
11 round cap.(10 in the tube)
24" barrel 4" comp
extended safety, racking handle, loading tray

Yep, the comp works, the muzzle doesn't rise. the gun recoils straight back (not much)
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Old January 22, 2001, 11:02 AM   #24
Ned Roundtree
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That's a beauty George!!
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Old January 22, 2001, 06:18 PM   #25
Dr.Rob
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Remington Sportsman 12 magnum 12 guage 21 inch bbl with rifle sights, I usually leave the rifled tube in it. For steels I shoot Federal Trap loads with #8 shot (all of our IDPA side matches are close range so buckshot isn't necessary) and for slug stages I use 1 oz winchester or federal max dram slugs. I use 23/4 inch shells. I have an aluminum extended mag that allows me to hold 8 rounds total in the gun.

Using an "express" model remington or mossberg you should be able to get into this for well under $250.
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