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Old October 23, 2013, 02:41 PM   #1
I'vebeenduped
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Rifle advice

I am going whitetail hunting in area 36B in AZ. The terrain is extremely varied. Here is a link to general pictures of the area.
http://www.bing.com/images/search?q=...na&FORM=HDRSC2
http://www.arizonawildlife.org/Artic...tent1142009164
http://www.azgfd.gov/h_f/hunting_units_36b.shtml


I have a Savage model 340 or a Yugo M48 to choose from. My dilemma is in that, with the Yugo, I would use a scout scope (Walmart special) which I have been having trouble getting consistent shots with. Scout scopes seem to be either super cheap in price and product, or SUPER expensive (on a married guy with kids budget). The Savage, I just bought some mounts for and have about $100 to spend on a scope. I am concerned about the range of shots I may encounter since 36B has some very open areas. I worry about the range of the .30-30 Savage and the dependability of the scope on my Mauser. Iron sights on the Mauser are not too wonderful, otherwise I would just go sans scope. I am leaning towards the Savage. It is definitely a shooter. However, I am taking the Mauser to Cabela's to see if they can mount it and see if I get better grouping.
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Old October 23, 2013, 03:03 PM   #2
Doyle
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Sell the Yugo and use the cash plus the $100 you already have and buy yourself a decent scope. If you buy a cheap scope, you won't be happy.
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Old October 23, 2013, 03:13 PM   #3
Brian Pfleuger
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Cheap scopes served me well for many years. It doesn't matter what the possible ranges of your hunting area may be, it matters what you and your gun can do. You might find a spot for making 400 yard shots but it won't matter with a .30-30.

A Bushnell Dusk and Dawn 3-9x would be entirely sufficient, or anything similar.

Get it on the gun and practice. Don't take shots you can't make just because they present themselves.
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Old October 23, 2013, 03:41 PM   #4
HungryHunter
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Have you hunted there before? That's my backyard. IMHO, its kinda like that Coon Canyon, Flat top Cow elk hunt. Just a money maker for AZGFD. What did the book say the success rate was? I see a lot of mulies but no white tail.

Anyway..good luck. I dunno what to tell you about the glass. I wasted my time with a cheap scope once, and never have again, but that's just me. I've been spoiled I suppose. Upon retrospect I didn't know anything about long distance shooting at that point in my life either so I'm sure that was a factor as well.
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Old October 23, 2013, 04:24 PM   #5
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HungryHunter,

According to Game and Fish, the hunt success in 2011 was 21% around the same time frame I am scheduled to hunt under. Either way, it beats working!

http://www.azgfd.gov/regs/HuntArizona2012.pdf
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Old October 23, 2013, 05:09 PM   #6
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Heck yeah it does. It's a real pretty area anyway, and FULL of javelina. I'll be the first to tell you I'm a pretty novice hunter myself(even that might be flattering.) But I did used to pack mules for a fencing crew all over that area, and spent a lot of time horseback down there before the military. Saw my first bighorn around there, and never seen another one since.Also my first lion.
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Old October 23, 2013, 05:41 PM   #7
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I have to agree with Doyle on this one. Does your Yugo have sentimental value? If not, I'd ditch that puppy in a heartbeat and get something less obscure. Like decent glass for your hunting rig. Even though I can't stand walmart, I have to admit they have some good prices on rifle scopes. Go get a Nikon or some such and with the money you have left over you can buy ammo to sight it in.

When going on a hunt out of state or anywhere for that matter, the 2 most important things to bring with you are good footwear and quality optics. In that order. No exceptions. If you can't walk there 'cause your feet hurt, your hunt is over. If you can't see it, you can't shoot it.

Good luck and let us know how your goes!
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Old October 23, 2013, 08:08 PM   #8
Art Eatman
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I had no difficulty in putting a bullet right where I intended, with a 3x9 scope dialled down to 3X--at 350 yards.

Never had a problem from buying "good used" scopes, either.

So, I guess I'd happily recommend some good used fixed 4X scope. Weaver has always worked well for me, along with their mounts.
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Old October 24, 2013, 07:40 AM   #9
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Quote:
Cheap scopes served me well for many years.
A big difference between a Tasco and a Zeiss is that if you drop your gun and break your Zeiss, you will likely sit down a cry like a baby and likely never get over it. Whereas, if you drop and break your Tasco, you will just go to walmart and buy a new one...and some donuts while you are at it.
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Old October 24, 2013, 10:19 AM   #10
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Are you in love with either rifle? You mentioned going to Cabelas they have Savage rifle and scope combos for around $400 in calibers that are more suited to long range shooting such as 270 30-06 308. Otherwise sell the rifle you don't like and get a scope I have had great luck with Nikon and Leuopold.
I also hunt with a 30/30 alot with peep sight so I am not against your 30/30. its just not a 400 yard gun unless you are a world class marksman. I am confident with mine to 100yds with my peep sights and have successfully killed whitetails at that range.
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Old October 24, 2013, 11:16 AM   #11
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Ruger480, mwal, the Mauser was from my father who passed away a few years ago. If anything, I will give it to my brother. I know it isn't worth much, but it is tough not to think of my Dad while handling it. The Savage that I have, well, she is not pretty in the least but she shoots straight and I lover her for that. I am currently saving for a Savage .30-06 11/111 FCNS. I am not quite there yet and, unless money rains down from heaven, most likely wont be by the hunt. So, my dilemma. I am down to the two rifles; one I can shoot well but not too far and the other I am hoping to get zeroed in a bit better. It is funny, other than my rifles, my gear is pretty good! Now that I think about it, I have no idea how THAT happened. Maybe I should bring a back-up slingshot? Either way, we always have a great time. I've come home empty handed and hung over before, but always happy. If I can get the Mauser to a decent level of dependability, I will go with that. If not, I will just have to make sure that my stalking skills are up to par and take the .30-30. I will update.
Art Eatman, sound advice. I will look for some good used scopes!
HungryHunter, I forgot to mention, the farthest south that I have ever hunted has been at Mt Lemon for whitetail. That is one heck of a place to hunt. I have always avoided southern AZ because of the human traffic problem we have. I didn't get picked this year and got 36B on a leftover tag. Still, I have never been on a hunt that I haven't enjoyed. I am positive that this will be no different.
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Old October 24, 2013, 12:24 PM   #12
Brian Pfleuger
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Quote:
A big difference between a Tasco and a Zeiss is that if you drop your gun and break your Zeiss, you will likely sit down a cry like a baby and likely never get over it. Whereas, if you drop and break your Tasco, you will just go to walmart and buy a new one...and some donuts while you are at it.


That's pretty funny.

I've only had two cheap scopes "fail" in any way though. One was a 10-40x Tasco that served me quite well for several years but was then inexplicably several feet of at 100 yards, beyond all hope of adjustment. The other was a Bushnell Dusk and Dawn 3-9 that did (and actually does) work just fine except it could not handle the recoil of a 12ga in a Lead Sled.

If I were going on a once-in-a-lifetime $10,000 Kodiak Bear hunt I would not rest my trip on the hopes of a $100 scope but considering that for most of us it will never amount to any more than a couple hours annoyance, spending $100 instead of 2 or 3 or 4 times as much seems like a decent bet.
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Last edited by Brian Pfleuger; October 24, 2013 at 12:49 PM. Reason: spelling
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Old October 24, 2013, 01:45 PM   #13
FrankenMauser
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Quote:
I've only had two cheap scopes "fail" in any way though. One was a 10-40x Tasco that served me quite well for several years but was then inexplicably several feet of at 100 yards, beyond all hope of adjustment.
That's precisely the reason why I don't put cheap scopes on hunting rigs.
Having the scope "inexplicably" change its zero by several feet (or yards) in the middle of a hunting trip is worse than breaking the scope out-right, because you don't know about the problem until the moment you need it to be perfect.

Been there. Done that.
One instance resulted in a fatally wounded, but very mobile and suffering antelope, that took 12 more shots to put down (since the reticle was dancing around in the scope, I had no backup rifle, and the antelope was covering ground faster than I could).
Another resulted in a clean miss, by 12 feet at 125 yards. A couple test shots were fired after the herd moved out. Yea... scope was toast.

Never again.



I'vebeenduped, if you decide to replace whatever scope(s) you have, skip the cheap Bushnells. You're better off with a Tasco World Class or Tasco Pronghorn, than a cheap Bushnell, Burris, or Simmons scope.
I don't like Burris or Simmons at all, but I've had more Bushnell scopes fail, than any other brand. Their 'entry level' scopes are lower quality than the nasty little 5/8" tube "scope" that came on my $35 air rifle.

And, if you do go cheap, a fixed-power scope will generally be less likely to give you problems, than a variable-power scope.

But, as Art mentioned... you can get some good deals on great scopes, if you shop for a used one. The only used scopes I've ever had problems with, are the same brands that gave me problems when new (Burris, Bushnell, Simmons, bottom-of-the-line Tascos, Nikko Sterling, Aim Point...).
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Old October 24, 2013, 02:33 PM   #14
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I've never equated Burris scopes with Simmons scopes in the quality arena!
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Old October 24, 2013, 03:25 PM   #15
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Many people have very good results with Nikon Prostaff. 3-9x40 will run you around $120ish. Natchezss.com often has blem/refurbs of Nikons going at very cheap prices.
I recently bought a CVA muzzloader with a Konus 3-9bdc scope (came in the package) and so far I am very impressed with the clarity and use at the range. I am still skeptical of Konus but a lot more optimistic than I was.
It doesnt take a $500 scope to make holes in deer. Either way good luck.
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Old October 25, 2013, 03:05 PM   #16
alex0535
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I don't think either rifle is the most ideal for where your hunting. Personally I would want a bit more range than the .30-30 would give me. If worried about the accuracy of the mauser I would pass on it for the .30-30 and just try and get within 150 yards of the animal.

I consider the .30-30 to be a relatively close range brush gun. I would try and figure out what the deer are eating, and set up near where they eat. Compared to the mauser with a scope your not confident in, take the .30-30 and just try and get close.

Given the varied terrain with open areas, I would prefer something like a .270 or .308, .30-06 if your planning on hunting things larger than whitetail at any point. More than adequate power for whitetail, but a lot more range than a .30-30 will give you.
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Old October 25, 2013, 03:15 PM   #17
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Quote:
Are you in love with either rifle? You mentioned going to Cabelas they have Savage rifle and scope combos for around $400 in calibers that are more suited to long range shooting such as 270 30-06 308.
The only problem with this idea is that of time: when is the season, and how much time do you have to practice ..... to familiarize yourself with the rifle?

Opening day is not the time to figure out holdover for a 400 yard shot.
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Old October 25, 2013, 06:43 PM   #18
pathdoc
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Nikko Sterling

I have one of these on my .303, a 2-7X originally designed for use on air rifles. I am the original owner FWIW.

19 rounds into a 3.5" cluster, one after another without much pause, tells me that my setup seems to hold its POI fairly well under recoil (that the load could use some work and the shooter could use some practice are a separate issue). The only time POI seems to shift is when I change loads and bullet weights. IDK, maybe I got lucky.
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Old October 27, 2013, 02:04 PM   #19
Paul B.
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Duped, I see you've hunted on Mt Lemmon so is it safe to say you live close to Tucson? When is your hunt. I didn't draw for anything this year, not antelope, deer or elk.
Anyway, if you are close, PM me and maybe I can find a way to help you out on the scope problem. I do have a few take offs I no longer use and they still work.
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Old October 28, 2013, 12:10 PM   #20
I'vebeenduped
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Paul B.,
Live in Phx. I am leaving on the 7th and going through the weekend. I have a buddy of mine who is loaning me his .30-06 since I still have not figured out my Mauser scope problem. Will PM you about your scopes though.
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