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Old October 22, 2013, 11:30 AM   #1
HarrySchell
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The 2nd Amendment goes international

The Secretary General of Interpol, on reflection about the Westgate Mall terrorist attack:

In an exclusive interview with ABC News, Noble said there are really only two choices for protecting open societies from attacks like the one on Westgate mall where so-called "soft targets" are hit: either create secure perimeters around the locations or allow civilians to carry their own guns to protect themselves.

"Societies have to think about how they're going to approach the problem," Noble said. "One is to say we want an armed citizenry; you can see the reason for that. Another is to say the enclaves are so secure that in order to get into the soft target you're going to have to pass through extraordinary security."

Read the whole thing:
http://abcnews.go.com/Blotter/exclus...ry?id=20637341
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Old October 22, 2013, 12:23 PM   #2
Tom Servo
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Noble's an American, and to most international audiences, he'd be accusing of projecting an "American bias" onto the situation.

Don't get me wrong; it needs to be said. It's just that I doubt it will have much influence.
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Old October 22, 2013, 09:42 PM   #3
johnwilliamson062
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I believe there were armed security, police, and possibly soldiers in the mall when the attack began that exchanged fire with the attackers. When traveling in foreign countries some sort of security force with long guns is almost always walking around any sort of western looking mall.
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Old October 23, 2013, 01:57 AM   #4
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My favorite paragraph from the story:

Quote:
“Ask yourself: If that was Denver, Col., if that was Texas, would those guys have been able to spend hours, days, shooting people randomly?” Noble asked. “What I’m saying is it makes police around the world question their views on gun control. It makes citizens question their views on gun control. You have to ask yourself, ‘Is an armed citizenry more necessary now than it was in the past with an evolving threat of terrorism?’ This is something that has to be discussed.”
And discuss it we shall, as we always have. The problem is that heretofore, we are the only ones were willing to listen. I have low levels of confidence that will change.
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Old October 23, 2013, 07:38 AM   #5
Kimio
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It's a cultural issue as well, foreign countries do not feel the same in regards to the topic of an armed citizenry as we do (at least many don't).

Be it for recreation or defensive purposes, I simply don't see this developing much sadly.
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Old October 23, 2013, 10:35 AM   #6
Hal
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Quote:
And discuss it we shall, as we always have. The problem is that heretofore, we are the only ones were willing to listen. I have low levels of confidence that will change.
Well - maybe this will boost you confidence a little.

My wife has worked for the county board of MR/DD for going on 30 years.
In all that time, the "doctrine" of the agency has been to hide and/or give in to the demands of any attacker.
They've had numerous in service meetings over the years where situations like mall shootings or school shootings were the topic and how the staff should act if anything like that ever happened.

The last in service my wife went to was his past Monday.
They had a police officer there to give a talk about how to deal with an armed threat.
Unlike anything in the past, this guy said the way to deal with a threat was to attack.
Use whatever you could lay your hands on as a weapon and just attack as a group.

He also suggested the agency reexamine there policy of no weapons being allowed and encourage staff members to get their CCW permits and carry!
That really blew me away when she told me that!
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Old October 23, 2013, 11:30 AM   #7
HarrySchell
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In CA, save for the most enlightened bastions, CCW permits are being issued much more frequently. It isn't shall issue, but as close as CA law will let it. The disparate treatment of people in like situations is getting more noticeable, but the Democrat majority in Sacto and throughout state government is far too dedicated to disarming citizens through any means necessary to allow shall-issue to pass.

Fiscal collapse is approaching, more and more felons are being released and returning to their trade. That the Governor appears to live in an uninformed bubble about so much may be a factor, too. Cutbacks in police, increases in petty crime, other declines in the "effectiveness" of government to make promises and keep them fuel mistrust and decisions not to rely on the old rules.

There never has been a safe place, and more people understand that.
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Old October 23, 2013, 01:15 PM   #8
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I agree that the widespread looming fiscal collapse seems to be what it is taking for people to open their eyes. If the citizenry here, in the United States, doesn't realize the rising dangers of everyday life with prisons that might as well have revolving doors and crimes being downgraded readily in court to keep people out of jail then they get what they deserve. Realistically, we are reproducing too fast for our own good anyway.

I don't advocate breaking the law but if I lived somewhere that my liberties were being infringed I would still do what I felt I needed to do to be safe. I will deal with any effects of my decision after the fact and be grateful I am alive to be living that hell.

I don't so much care what other societies think about an armed populace within their borders, they need to make their decisions based on their local environment. I have no control or influence there nor should I and I don't have to deal with it. I trust that each region makes it laws and rules for good reason.(This is not true in modern life, politics is a joke anymore)

Each locality must decide what is best for itself given it's regional issues and influences. This is why I have a disdain for what has become the US Federal government and modern politics on a global scale. What is good for Texas may not be good for New Hampshire. What works in Tanzania might not work well in Vancouver. If the people of Texas want to build a huge wall sealing the border with an "Engage at every opportunity" protocol for illegals then residents of Utah should not be allowed to tell them they cant. Just because certain nations in the UN want to have some massive gun registration and eventual confiscation doesn't mean it is in the best interest of the entire world to do that. There seems to be a push for one set of rules for the whole world and its asinine.

/Endrant
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Old October 25, 2013, 10:41 AM   #9
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Quote:
There seems to be a push for one set of rules for the whole world and its asinine.
As asinine as it is, nothing at all surprising about the push for one set of rules for the world. Was predicted that this would happen many , many years ago.

Agree that Noble's words will most likely fall on deaf ears by many foreign gub'ments. Not only do they not want to hear Noble, but those gub'ments are not going to release the death grip they have on their peoples throats.
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Old October 25, 2013, 06:21 PM   #10
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Quote:
He also suggested the agency reexamine there policy of no weapons being allowed and encourage staff members to get their CCW permits and carry!
That really blew me away when she told me that!
That's encouraging, thanks for sharing. Hopefully more attitudes will change regarding CCW. My wife is an educator and their post-Sandy Hook briefing by the police was limited strictly to defensive hide-or-escape mechanisms. Security-oriented policies (locked doors, etc.) were also put in place.
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Old October 28, 2013, 03:01 PM   #11
Glenn E. Meyer
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Don't hold your breath. Even in progun TX, the so-called progun legislature has managed for several session to avoid campus carry coming to a vote.

Lots of duplicity in action in the pro-gun elected big mouths.
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Old October 29, 2013, 11:38 AM   #12
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He may have been informed by this report that got not enough play in this country: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...rs-safety.html
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