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Old October 22, 2013, 04:37 PM   #26
hornetguy
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is taking a gun that is best known for being quick handling and mild recoiling, and putting a sighting system on it that makes it neither.
Not trying to be argumentative, but I firmly disagree with you here...

A levergun IS/WAS meant to be quick handling... I understand that. But, in that sense, we are talking about deep forest "jump" shooting, in my opinion. And this type of shot is usually taken at the 30-40yd limitation I mentioned in my previous post. Any other type of shot taken will require no "quick handling"... any more than will any bolt gun used for hunting.
So, unless the only shooting at game you will be doing is that deep forest jump shooting, the quick handling requirement is pretty much moot.
I will wager that 98% of all shots taken with a levergun are in situations exactly like those with a boltgun.... 50 to 150yd, take your time, aim deliberately, and squeeze the trigger. In that case, the hunter should take advantage of a scope to give him the best possible sight picture.

I agree with you, aesthetically... I think the scope should be as small as possible, and as low-profile as possible. But I think boltgun scopes should be, as well. Unless we're talking long range target or varmint shooting.

edit: oh, yeah... actually, when you add the scope, it adds weight to the gun, which helps lessen recoil.... just a thought.
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Old October 22, 2013, 04:49 PM   #27
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I will wager that 98% of all shots taken with a levergun are in situations exactly like those with a boltgun.... 50 to 150yd, take your time, aim deliberately, and squeeze the trigger.
Hasn't worked out that way for my Eldest daughter ..... both deer she took last year were 150 yards away and running.

You'll have a hard time hitting a moving target with stock that does not fit your sighting system.

Likewise, percieved recoil is greater if you don't have a good cheekweld.

You CAN mount a scope pretty high on these guns (and others)- you justhave to raise the comb to match the sight line. Doing so messes with the balance, esp. if the scope is heavy.
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Old October 22, 2013, 05:08 PM   #28
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I agree with all you said there... in those circumstances, the combination would be less than ideal.
I always assume the person scoping the rifle would take the time to mount it properly so that it "fits" the rifle, and the rifle fits the shooter, but I know it doesn't always work out that way.
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Old October 22, 2013, 05:16 PM   #29
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http://swfa.com/Leupold-15-5x33-VX-R...pe-P51466.aspx

That would be my choice...mounted on a 45/70 Guide Gun or even the Deerfield Carbine .44 Magnum...if it moves and it's inside 150 yards that will do the trick, 33mm lens gives good light gathering for those early mornings sitting at a field edge or orchard line, illuminated reticule makes it standout that much more, sure its overkill, then again so is a Barrett, but how many people would turn one of those down.
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Old October 22, 2013, 07:55 PM   #30
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To each, their own. Getting old sucks and the eyes tend to go first. What I find hideous is a scope on a handgun yet they are very popular. I bet those that call adding a scope to a lever gun sacreligious have a scoped pistol or two. It's for function, not aestetics, when you're over 50.




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Old October 22, 2013, 08:51 PM   #31
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I guess it goes down to using the right tool for the job then.

If you're taking slow well aimed shots at 150 yards with a lever...well there might be some problems with your tool selection.

My lever is for thick brush and shots within 100 yards taking quick, off hand shots. I want a smooth transition and a fast sight picture. I want to be able to pull the gun to my shoulder and aim. Not pull the gun to my shoulder and bob my head like a bird trying to see through a scope.

If I were to be sitting in a stand taking slow scoped shots, I'll use a rifle built to take a scope with a raised comb so my cheek weld stays the same and I'm not trying to get a "jaw weld" since the guys who scope levers insist upon putting see through mounts on them so they can still "use" the irons they can no longer see.

And since I was old I'd probably also like a gun that was a bit more forgiving of things that old age supposedly brings. Levers have curved fore stocks for your hand, not flat to be stable on a rest. The ones in the pic above are chambered for rounds that don't travel as fast or have as straight a trajectory as modern bullets. This means increased flight time and higher arching trajectories. Less forgiving when your reflexes are slower and your eyes are going.

But that leads me back to the scout style scope. It's set far foward and low, so your cheek weld isn't destoyed. It's a low powered scope so you can use both eyes to shoot and track making it easier to shoot on the fly. It does put weight forward, but thats not a bad thing when swinging a gun, keeps the gun from being "whippy". Might slow it down, but I can turn faster than a critter can run.

It's really not about looks or scabbards or blasphmemy (I did suggest a red dot after all...) It's just about keeping the rifle's strengths and not putting something on it that completely negates them. Like taking a quarterback and making him a center. Sure, he's a football player and sure, he could snap the ball...but he's probably not the best one to do it.
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Old October 22, 2013, 10:03 PM   #32
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My lever is for thick brush and shots within 100 yards taking quick, off hand shots.
Not all of us have have the luxury of multiple rifles - Eldest just has the one .... but she does pretty well with it. ... "Beware the teenager with just one rifle- she probably knows how to use it.

Quote:
I want a smooth transition and a fast sight picture. I want to be able to pull the gun to my shoulder and aim. Not pull the gun to my shoulder and bob my head like a bird trying to see through a scope.
This should be true of all rifles (probably shotguns, too, but the mass market stocks fit me well enough .....) ..... because I have a scope on my 721, and it has a stock made for irons sights, I needed to raise the comb ..... now I bring the gun up and the reticle is on the target (as opposed to bringing the gun up and looking at the scope bases).

Quote:
But that leads me back to the scout style scope. It's set far foward and low, so your cheek weld isn't destoyed. It's a low powered scope so you can use both eyes to shoot and track making it easier to shoot on the fly. It does put weight forward, but thats not a bad thing when swinging a gun, keeps the gun from being "whippy". Might slow it down, but I can turn faster than a critter can run.
Agreed, and Eldest has a 2X Burris pistol scope forward mounted on her Marlin 30A ...... works great, though we did have to raise the comb a 1/2" to get it to line up ...... and as for being front heavy ...... It's a 30A- like a no frills 336- it weighs what? 7 1/2 lbs loaded anyhow ... another 12 ounces of scope isn't going to hurt anything .....

I have a scout scope on my "kid loaner" gun, a Ruger Frontier in 7-08.... we added 3/4" of padding to the comb of that one so little faces line up behind the glass right, too .....
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Old October 22, 2013, 10:48 PM   #33
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My 94AE in .356 Winchester has an old Weaver 1.5-4.5x variable on it.
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Old October 22, 2013, 11:12 PM   #34
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Lol, I was just explaining why I used "cripple". I wasn't trying to insult anyone. Just seemed I offended a couple folks and wanted to explain what I meant.
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Old October 22, 2013, 11:41 PM   #35
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I don't think anyone's offended by your choice of words. At least I'm not. Just cause we don't exactly agree doesn't mean I don't love ya, man...

The internet and the typed word sometimes come across wrong... it's difficult to put nuances in what you say. They don't make a smilie for everything..
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Old October 23, 2013, 08:22 AM   #36
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I don't think anyone is going to argue that a 4-16x50mm scope is not appropriate for a lever gun, particularly one chambered in a moderate velocity cartridge like 30-30, 35 Rem, 45-70...

The original post simply asked the question about the possibility of scoping a Henry Big Boy, and what magnification was used.

And the answer is... Yes, it is quite possible to mount a scope on a lever gun and enhance (rather than diminish) the effectiveness of the gun. Like any scope - rifle combination, it must be an appropriate match, and it must be fitted properly.

Match: Low magnification scopes are best for 30-30, 35 Rem, 45-70 and similar. A magnification of 2X to 3X significantly enhances my ability to see through brush, and I can use the rifle with both eyes open until I finally line up the shot. Anything more than 4X is too much for me to use at close range or in deep woods. The other advantage of low magnification scopes is the small objective lense, which allows the scope to be mounted low. I have a Nikon 1-4X20mm on my AR-15, and this would be a good lever gun scope. A lot of companies are now making 1-4X20 at a variety of price points. A fixed power scope is also a good choice because they can be lighter and shorter than a variable. As I said before, I use a 2.5x20mm on my Marlin 336.

Fit: A rifle fits if it comes to the shoulder and cheek naturally and the eye is nearly aligned with the sights (iron, scope, red-dot, peep, whatever). The final aligning of the sights should be possible with subtle movements of the head, without needing to re-cheek-weld. Given the rise built into most lever gun stocks, it is important that the scope be positioned as low as possible. Low profile mounts and low rings are generally required.
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Old October 23, 2013, 07:57 PM   #37
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I am 54 with a really bad shoulder and astigmatism and nearsightedness. On my one lever gun, a Marlin 336W, is a Vortex Viper 2x7 and a really nice recoil pad. My shots have the potential to be 200 yards.

I'm happy with my setup and if you go without a scope I'm happy for you. Just don't put other people down for their choices, except of course if someone uses a 50mm objective scope on their lever. Then only do it face to face in private and make comment about the inverse relationship between stinger size and objective size.
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Old October 23, 2013, 09:00 PM   #38
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Has anyone mounted a scope on their Henry Big Boy or any other CF lever gun. What power did you get.
Center fire lever gun, yes. A Marlin 336C in 35 Remington.

You will have to decide for yourself as to what power and type works best for YOU. All I can do is tell you what I chose.

A 3-9X40MM sighted in at 75 yards and kept and used at 3x 90% of the time. Also you will note that it is mounted on see through rings. I am not a fan of see through rings, but they do serve a function when a buck jumps up in-front of you at 10 to 15 yards. (really too close for a scope)

If you hunt from a tree stand, maybe the 9 power will help maybe not. It would help me at 150 yards. If I am stalking, I stop a lot and use the scope at 9 power to scan the tree line ahead. If in a ground stand, the 3 power is used the most.

You will need to chose depending on the way YOU hunt.
Jim

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Old October 23, 2013, 09:10 PM   #39
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Don't do this to me.

Quote:
I stop a lot and use the scope at 9 power to scan the tree line ahead. If in a ground stand, the 3 power is used the most.
I take a VERY dim view of ...... "people" using a scope as a pair of binoculars ...... having been "scanned" by an idiot who was "Jus' tryin' to see what ya' wuz....."
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Old October 23, 2013, 09:22 PM   #40
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I agree with jimbob 150% scopes should not be used to "scan". Never. If you do, you're basically breaking rule #1 of gun handling. Never point a gun at something you don't intend to shoot. Pack a lunch or skip starbucks a couple days and buy you some binos.
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Old October 23, 2013, 09:25 PM   #41
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I stop a lot and use the scope at 9 power to scan
I always thought that people who did crap like that would at least be ashamed to admit it.
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Old October 23, 2013, 09:52 PM   #42
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A scope is fine as long as you keep everything in perspective. The newer loads (ie. Hornady) is expanding the range of all the lever action loads. Anything at, or under 4x is fine. Above that is a reason to get some good binoculars.
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Old October 23, 2013, 09:53 PM   #43
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Question for Jim243..... With your scope mounted high above the receiver, do you get a good cheek weld, or do you shoot with a "head up" position that is common with AR-15 shooters?
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Old October 23, 2013, 11:03 PM   #44
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I take a VERY dim view of ...... "people" using a scope as a pair of binoculars ...... having been "scanned" by an idiot who was "Jus' tryin' to see what ya' wuz.
You might want to wear some BLAZE ORANGE during hunting season, then the idiot won't think YOU are an idiot. And for your information I don't point my rifle at anything wearing blaze orange even deer wearing camo. (LOL) Try being a more responsible hunter sometime, it might help you live longer.

The cheek weld is fine, all my bolt action rifles wear scopes with a 50 mm objective (high rings) so the 40 mm scope fits right in on my cheek weld without any noticeable difference. I have to scrunch down actually to use the iron sights.

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Old October 24, 2013, 02:47 AM   #45
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You want him to be more responsible when you are the one scanning with a loaded rifle? Wow...I've heard it all now.

Take responsibility for your actions. Don't try to justify something that is incredibly stupid to do in the first place. Just by "scanning the area" with a rifle you are breaking every safe weapon handling rule. Let alone using a loaded rifle. How about you just practice safer hunting? You just might not accidentally kill someone that way.

And how do you not point your rifle at someone wearing orange if your scanning the area with your scope? Do you magically know they're there before you flag them with your rifle and they enter your FoV?
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Old October 24, 2013, 09:10 AM   #46
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I would like to address post #1. I have posted some pictures on scoping your Big Boy. Here is an example of 2. First, you get the scope base from Henry (about $30). I used loctite on the threads and made sure that the base is straight. There is enough play in them to warrant a slight warning.

The example shows the Vortex 1.75 X 5 scope with Leupold quick detach rings. I was thinking that the iron sights would still be usable with the scope removed, but they are not. You can set the rear sight to the highest and get a sight picture, but it is less then perfect.

The other Henry with the big loop is a 45 colt, and a Leupold VX-3 1.75 By 6. Both scopes are 32mm and use MED rings. I will include a picture of the big loop as well. It is an easy install.

Also, just a note. These rifles are heavy and adding a scope is not such a big thing. I wouldn't want to carry it all day. I use them for teaching new shooters and to make steel plates resonate a loud "PING!".

I hope that answers the question that you had, IF not, please ask away.














http://i1091.photobucket.com/albums/...ry/1scope1.jpg

http://i1091.photobucket.com/albums/...ry/4scope4.jpg

http://i1091.photobucket.com/albums/...ry/3scope3.jpg

http://i1091.photobucket.com/albums/...ry/5scope5.jpg

http://i1091.photobucket.com/albums/...ry/7scope7.jpg
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Old October 24, 2013, 09:35 AM   #47
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And how do you not point your rifle at someone wearing orange if your scanning the area with your scope
While it is possible for someone that is COLOR BLIND not to see another hunter, I have no such problem with or without a scope. (even across an open field)

You seem to forget the gun safety rules:
1. Keep you finger off the trigger
2. Know your target and what's behind it.
3. Never point a loaded gun at anything your not willing to kill.

Hell, I follow those even at the range let a lone when hunting.

I don't stalk with the hammer back and cocked and locked and my safety is always engaged until I am ready to shoot. My concern would be the hunter in a tree stand that can not see more than 50 yards in front of him and hears a sound to their right or left and swings their rifle to get a better view.

A little common sense will keep everyone safe.
Jim

Quote:
Don't try to justify something that is incredibly stupid to do in the first place.
What is incredible stupid, is not wearing proper attire while hunting. So don't blame someone else for your mistakes.
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Old October 24, 2013, 11:47 AM   #48
semi_problomatic
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With the big boy bases- couldn't you bed the bases to the rifle to take out any slop? When you bed the bases you'd have a release agent on the action so it wouldn't be permanent and it could save the finish of your rifle and improve accuracy.

Jim-No one but you has said anything about not wearing hunter blaze orange. read #6 under hunting safety:http://www.magtechammunition.com/sitepages/pid80.php

#3:http://www.tpwd.state.tx.us/outdoor-...hunting-safety

4th paragraph: http://www.rmef.org/TheHunt/During/Glassing.aspx

Thread from here: http://TheFiringLine.com/forums/showthread.php?t=531431

Some more: http://www.thehighroad.org/archive/i.../t-687360.html

Look! More! http://www.outdoorsmenforum.ca/showthread.php?t=106340

More: http://www.ifish.net/board/showthread.php?t=328489
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Old October 24, 2013, 12:17 PM   #49
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Idahosd...thanks for your responce. If I scope my Henry BB I plan on getting a leupold FXll 4x scope. My question is do you have to lift your head up off the stock to see thru the scope. I was hopeing to get away with low rings.
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Old October 24, 2013, 04:35 PM   #50
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I'm 54 and have never hunted on land that was not family owned. For deer all hunting is done from stands. I do not use my scope to search for deer but if I see movement I will scope it if it is in bad light conditions. But if I do scope an animal it is close to a feeder and no one is in the vicinity, it is how our stands are arranged. And if you are not a family member you will be in a stand with a family member. Also since we are in stands, a round is not chambered until you are ready to pull the trigger. Our hog hunting is done out of stands too.

I would never use a scope to scan the horizon and don't see much utility in it b/c the FOV is so narrow. If I were to ever hunt someplace other than my own land and saw someone checking me out with a scope I would want to go over to them and butt them in the face with my rifle but I wouldn't because they would be holding a loaded firearm.

I have a 336W that doesn't get used a lot for deer anymore but gets used for hogs a lot. It wears a good recoil pad and a Viper 2x7 scope. I need the scope for my eyes. If it were all I had for deer I would not feel under gunned. It also sports a Happy Trigger and I polished the internals. The first ammo shot in it was 150 gr. Core-Lokts and they were so accurate I never bothered to try anything else. I do hand load but 30-30 is so inexpensive I have never bought dies.
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