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Old October 23, 2013, 04:05 PM   #26
Kachok
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Savage without a doubt, they shoot much better then any of my Remingtons ever did.
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Old October 23, 2013, 04:22 PM   #27
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Does it matter that Winchester 70 actions proved more reliable, easier to operate and maintain, held bedding better and are near 3 times stiffer than the Remingtons? This is the track record of both when used in matches shot in 3 positions at ranges from 100 to 1000 yards. Both single round loading for slow fire matches and 10-shot rapid fire matches reloading after 5 rounds fired.
Nope, doesn't matter.

Winchester isn't used as a DM or Sniper rifle with the U.S. Military...

Let's face it, civilian market sales follows the military...it's all a marketing "thing".

I do think that Remington has rested on their laurels for too long. While they do have some nice- and accurate- offerings, if you're paying for the rifle's ability to put bullets into the smallest group for dollars spent they wouldn't be top dog.

Their first run at a "budget" model- the 770 (aimed at the Axis, I suppose) failed miserably. Perhaps more interestingly, it's Ruger that's now exploding in this category.
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Old October 23, 2013, 06:53 PM   #28
Bart B.
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Winchester isn't used as a DM or Sniper rifle with the U.S. Military...
Why do you think that first happened back in the 1960's when Winchester 70 action based ones were replaced with Remington 700 action versions?

Any bolt action based rifle could probably be used to meet the 7.62 NATO M24 sniper rifle accuracy specs with M118 match ammo. They had to produce no worse than about 6" test groups at 300 yards and the barrels were considered worn out when 300 yard accuracy reached about 11 inches.
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Last edited by Bart B.; October 24, 2013 at 01:45 PM.
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Old October 24, 2013, 05:56 PM   #29
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I wasn't debating the government's choice to replace the Model 70 with the 700...and don't know the history behind it.

I'm sure there's a story there, no doubt with $$$ and politics playing the usual role

I was simply stating that I believe that the consumer market follows the military...

We all know that some of the "tacticool" crowd cares little about practicality or applicability to their application. If it's used by the SEALs, he's gotta have it.
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Old October 25, 2013, 10:17 AM   #30
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as far as aftermarket goes, the 700 does have along list, but those can get pricy very quickly.

the savages do have a number of modifications as well, aside from the savage axis and ruger american, not have much in the way of aftermarket yet for those...

the mossberg rifle have some good items for their lines, but are limited and accuracy dependability seems to fluctuate from time to time

the weatherby vanguard/howa m1500 guns(rifle rebranded) are accurate and have numerious parts, similiar to the 700

really its all about what your purpose for the rifle will be, and what the overal goal and function it is to perform

when i started rebuilding my mosin , i had a plan in mind, for it to be a stationary target rifle for ranges 300+, while being in a comfortable enviroment, meaning a gun range or a private ranch to shoot "targets" not animals or any defence purpose. so its heavy and very stable and accurate, but downside it is not very mobile due to it increased size and parts i have on it. i can carry it but its heavy and the case , barely fits my cars, so its difficult to transport


now my howa im getting is specified for accuracy as well, but im going to design it to be mobile and easy to transport, and used for fast action purposes , thus 308, which is my preferred round

so you've got to make a list of specified results, that the rifle must accomplish, if it cant do that off the back, you must then factor in what parts you can replace or tweak that can accomplish that. if the result is still no , look at another rifle and repeat those steps till you can accomplish your goal within your budget range.

my mosin cost i belive 400 total with all the mods, my howa is 600 without, so youve got to factor in rifle base price with that of those parts your getting. also must leave time to practice and adjust to these modifications
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Old October 26, 2013, 01:05 PM   #31
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Regarding the aftermarket thing, you're not nearly as likely to need it with a Savage that has the Accu-Trigger.

I agree with the poster that suggested a heavy barrelled Savage if your interest is mainly target shooting. At $775 suggested retail and a good deal less from your dealer, the model 10 FP-SR seems like what you may be looking for:http://www.savagearms.com/firearms/finder/
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Old October 27, 2013, 08:04 AM   #32
Bart B.
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tobpnr:
Quote:
I wasn't debating the government's choice to replace the Model 70 with the 700...and don't know the history behind it.

I'm sure there's a story there, no doubt with $$$ and politics playing the usual role
Here's the story including $$$ and politics......

Most of the USMC and US Army snipers were also high power competitors. They all knew the merits of Winchester actions' reliability, ease of field maintenance as well as operation in rapid fire superiority over Remingtons. None of them I've talked with liked Remington actions based on their observed shortcommings of them. GySgt Carlos Hathcock told me at an Interservice Rifle Match in Quantico, VA, he thought the Winchester actions with a Remington barrel put in them as that would be the best combination of commercial parts for both accuracy and reliability. Both ground-pounding services gave up on Remington actions for magnums used in long range matches, too, except for those few that had flat bottom/side sleeves epoxied on them.

But Winchester was in financial straits back then. And the flag officers concerned with the dollar bills and political issues did not want any company about ready to go bankrupt to be their choice. So Remington got the contract to supply actions and one or two custom shops supplied the barrels.

If one sees what the accuracy specs for sniper rifles were back then, they'd probably figure out that most any action and barrel could shoot that well. Then the history of each is also interesting; Remington 7XX rifles are decended from the M1917 Enfield, Winchester 70 rifles decended from the M1903 Springfield that used several Mauser 98 features which royalties were paid for to use them.
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Last edited by Bart B.; October 27, 2013 at 09:12 AM.
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