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Old October 21, 2013, 06:22 PM   #26
Vanya
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Just a reminder: this thread is about .22 rimfire. It's not a "What caliber is best" thread, so let's not go down that road.
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Old October 21, 2013, 07:22 PM   #27
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I think post # 19 say's all that needs to be said. Well stated and to the point
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Old October 21, 2013, 07:48 PM   #28
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why the 22

You mean that not everyone owns a 22 caliber something or other?? I would have never guessed that. I even have different formats. Pistols & rifles, 22 mag-22LR- long-short & .22 pellet. I couldn't imagine not having a 22 something.
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Old October 21, 2013, 08:35 PM   #29
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Ive been told more people are killed by 22s than anything else. I personally know more peoples been shot by 22s than anything else (and some shot themselves.) Its easy for me to believe people don't give it enough respect.
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Old October 21, 2013, 08:44 PM   #30
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.22s are used in more crimes, and kill more people than any other caliber. This includes law enforcement officers.

They're cheap, quiet, easy to use. They're tiny, but that doesn't mean they can't kill.

Something I have head it attributed to, though, is that something about the way the .22 round is made is dirtier and leads to higher infection rates which can kill people? Something like that.
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Old October 21, 2013, 09:38 PM   #31
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Well, I just handed down a Colt Targetsman to my nephew, which was bought new by my father. Anybody that thinks the 22cal cartridge is only for beginners, think again. In the hands of a skilled shooter, the 22 rimfire is a very effective small game round.

If memory serves me correct, Robert Kennedy was killed with a 22cal handgun.
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Old October 21, 2013, 09:53 PM   #32
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The merits of the .22 have been well listed in this thread: learning trigger control with little to no recoil, etc. but .22s are not all just range toys. Two hunting seasons back I dropped 3 25+/- pound piglets out of a sow-less pack of them. 3 pigs on the run, 1 Stinger each, not one of them took another step. On one of them the round hit just behind the rib cage through and through and took a good bit of gut out the exit hole with it. Another took it in the shoulder. Shattered the bones on both shoulders and broke up under the skin on the off side. The 3rd pig took it in the chest and that little Stinger turned his insides to jelly. So the .22 is a great starter caliber, great target round and when it comes down to it- it can straight up do work with the right ammo.

At one point I owned so many .22s I could barely shut my safe. I'm down to under 10 now but they still outnumber all the other calibers in my fleet. If I were to pick one rifle to take to the swamp and live off the land it would likely be a .22 rifle.
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Old October 22, 2013, 10:35 AM   #33
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Here is what bugs me. Why does everyone pass off the 22 rimfire as the ideal starter caliber for everyone?
Because it's cheap to shoot, has low noise and low recoil. This makes it a nearly ideal caliber for training purposes.

Quote:
its not considered more then 'its better then a stick' when it comes to self defense.
After you've learned to shoot with a 22, THEN get something that's more effective for self defense. It takes quite a bit of shooting to learn to do it well. The difference in cost between 22 and, say, 45 ACP for a few hundred rounds will pay for the 22 gun used to learn on.

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So why limit someone to that one caliber no matter what?
I can't think of a single reason. Who said you had to?
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Old October 22, 2013, 12:15 PM   #34
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Have not tread all the post so forgive me of ground already covered...

The .22 is a great starter round cause it lets a beginner concentrate on good basic fundamentals of shooting while eliminating some of the hoops such as recoil a person often concentrates on rather then concentrating on the actual shooting fundamentals.

Far as that goes, many seasoned shooters often spend the rest of their shooting careers shooting the .22 on a regular bases practicing basic, muscle memory shooting fundamentals.
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Old October 22, 2013, 01:33 PM   #35
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While I don't disagree with anything those in favor of .22's have said, the bottom line is 22's are sort of boring. When someone buys their very first pistol, they want to know that they are shooting the real McCoy.

So, here's what I recommend to first-time pistol buyers: Go out and buy the .380, 9mm, or .45 that you've dreamed about in preferably in a full sized gun (no micro guns). While I like .40, it's beyond a "little stretch" to think its for beginners. Shoot and enjoy it. Then, when you really want to hone your skills, go shopping for a .22, or a .22 kit for your full-sized gun.

Last edited by Skans; October 22, 2013 at 01:46 PM.
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Old October 22, 2013, 01:44 PM   #36
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22's aren't boring. Shoot steel with them. It's great fun and a skill builder.
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Old October 22, 2013, 02:46 PM   #37
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22's aren't boring. Shoot steel with them. It's great fun and a skill builder.
Most first time gun owners aren't going to be shooting steel. They are going to go down to their local indoor range where there is nothing but paper hanging from a clip to shoot.

Also, shooting steel really doesn't do much to help newbie shooters - you really need to be shooting paper so that someone more skilled can see your mistakes and correct them depending on what your pattern looks like. I know you already know all of this - just making my case, so bear with me.

I remember when I was 16-21. The LAST thing I wanted for my first real handgun was a .22. After years of only being able to shoot .177 and .22 caliber pellets, I wanted a "real" gun; and to me, the .22 was just a higher powered pellet gun. There was nothing you could say or do to convince me otherwise.

I purchased my first .22 handgun sometime between 25 and 28. Then I purchased one or two more. The best thing about .22's is that they are (were) dirt cheap to shoot. I'm sure I could have benefited by doing more training with a .22. Sometimes I will put a few magazines through my Ruger Mark II, but for the most part I much prefer shooting 9mm to just about anything else, especially from my X-Five. At this point, someone would have to lay out some pretty interesting drills for me to do with the Mark II for me to get interested in shooting it more.

Last edited by Skans; October 22, 2013 at 02:52 PM.
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Old October 22, 2013, 02:59 PM   #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Skans
While I don't disagree with anything those in favor of .22's have said, the bottom line is 22's are sort of boring.
That is only true of you find noise and recoil exciting.

I don't.
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Old October 22, 2013, 03:20 PM   #39
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Today I say the .22 because that is what the NRA and the Boy Scouts mandate for new shooters in the rifle program. (Well, technically they mandate rimfire, but I'm not buying .17 HMR for the rifle merit badge kids)

No felt recoil, little noise, cheap, plentiful(at least pre-Newtown), and available in a variety of easy to use, accurate, cheap and plentiful rifle and pistol platforms.

Also, when I went to college and started having to buy my own ammunition, and ammunition for assorted lady friends, I realized the value of my humble Ruger Mk II 22/45.

For what it cost for one box of .38 Spl range fodder, the girlfriend and I could chase around RC and Diet Coke cans behind the fraternity house all afternoon.
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Old October 22, 2013, 03:26 PM   #40
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That is only true of you find noise and recoil exciting.

I don't.
If quiet and tame is important to you when shooting for fun then why not just shoot pellet guns....or airsoft? Cheaper, quieter and even less recoil.
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Old October 22, 2013, 03:29 PM   #41
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Re: First handgun.

I saved up my pennies and dimes and bought my first handgun at age 17 (from a local furniture store).

$79.00 bought me a new in the cardboard box High Standard Model 107 Citation.

With that pistol to teach me, it didn't take long 'til I was making little bitty holes in whatever I chose to shoot.

I made a few bucks with wagers with my friends and acquaintances but they learned not to bet against me and my Citation.

I don't ever remember being bored with it!

I'm not saying I don't like my 3.5" Redhawk .44magnum almost as well, now.

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Old October 22, 2013, 03:41 PM   #42
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I will hit my 3/4 century mark next month. I have been shooting since I was 10 years old. Everything important about shooting, I learned on a .22. Sight picture, trigger control, breath control, shooting positions, and a lifelong respect for the power of a firearm.
Whenever I want to challenge myself, the old High Standard still comes to the range.
I have never regretted starting with a .22, and neither have my son, daughter, wife, or grandkids.
Dad taught me well, and I hope that I turned out to be half the man he was.
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Old October 22, 2013, 03:49 PM   #43
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I well remember buying my first REAL handgun, after some time of very disappointing shooting I went back and bought a .22 pistol to learn the basics of pistol shooting. I mistakenly thought that if I could shoot a rifle I could shoot a pistol. I understand that sometimes a firearm/cartridge combo can become "boring" at that point you have to change your routine, I end up shooting for score against myself, trying to beat my best score, or running through a dueling tree at faster speed or just shooting the tops off of plastic water bottles with out disturbing the bottle of water etc. etc. etc. When a challenge become boring, you adjust the challenge to your new level of skill. When I get to feeling too "cocky" I switch handsto shoot left handed and get humble real fast. Many a odd target such as a GI Joe figure has met its fate on my .22 Range, spent .22 shells stuck in something become entertaining etc. etc, clay targets at verious ranges from 50 to 100 yards, if it ain't fun make it fun.
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Old October 23, 2013, 07:28 AM   #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by skans
Quote:
That is only true of you find noise and recoil exciting.

I don't.
If quiet and tame is important to you when shooting for fun then why not just shoot pellet guns....or airsoft? Cheaper, quieter and even less recoil.
I have heard the term "air soft", but have no experience with them.

Air rifles are a world of their own, and from what I can see the good ones are pretty expensive. I contemplated one of those Benjamin pump pellet guns for pest control until I witnessed the amount of noise one makes pumping the thing up.

.22lr firearms are firearms. One need not keep track of compressed air, and high quality, accurate arms, both pistols and rifles, can be had for less than $500.

I do not shoot only .22lr because I do have arms in other calibers, but I have never found the challenge of chasing smaller groups to be boring. I begin to affirmatively object to report and recoil when I am offered a hot 44 magnum in a small revolver. I also recall with no fondness a 45-70 pistol. I acknowledge that some people find that sort of thing thrilling.

I would summarise my reaction as "big bullet, big noise, big deal".

I appreciate any item well made and well designed so that I am able to test my accuracy rather than the accuracy of the arm, .22s included.

Last edited by zukiphile; October 23, 2013 at 07:41 AM.
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Old October 23, 2013, 07:42 AM   #45
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I begin to affirmatively object to report and recoil when I am offered a hot 44 magnum in a small revolver.
Heck, I don't even like shooting .357 a lot in a small revolver. But, 9mm in a semi-auto format generally has very mild recoil. And although you have to wear ear protection when shooting 9mm, you still have to wear ear protection when shooting .22. Cheap 9mm is a bit more expensive than .22, but it's what I carry, so I don't mind spending the extra $$$ plinking with it. Some people really like shooting .22's in handguns; I don't particularly care for it. Then again, some people like shooting 50AE; and I don't see much point in that either. Just my personal preferences, that's all.
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Old October 23, 2013, 08:12 AM   #46
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you still have to wear ear protection when shooting .22.
Absolutely and emphatically, yes.

Quote:
Some people really like shooting .22's in handguns; I don't particularly care for it.
I can spend an afternoon with my volquartzen pistol. A good trigger, sharp sights and little recoil permit focus without fatigue. The other caliber I enjoy for paper is .45. It is a very mild round and the big bullet allows one to sight the holes at greater distance, but isn't as frugal as the .22.

Recoil has a lot to do with design. One reason I lament the Ruger P95 going out of production is that it handles recoil very well (with a couple more inches of slide and barrel and better sights, I think it could be a great pistol). One reason I detest the Walther PPK design is that it makes the .380 feel like a 44 magnum.

When I am introducing a new shooter to the activity, I want few distractions. Heavy recoil and crippling noise both distract someone figuring out the basics, so I always start them with a .22.

Last edited by zukiphile; October 23, 2013 at 09:56 AM.
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Old October 23, 2013, 09:54 AM   #47
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When I am introducing a new shooter to the activity, I want few distractions. Heavy recoil and crippling noise are both distract someone figuring out the basics, so I always start them with a .22.
True, which is the main reason I keep a couple of .22 pistols around. But, there's a big difference between letting someone use your .22 to introduce them to shooting and telling a 1st time gun buyer to buy a .22LR pistol. Very few people want a .22lr pistol as their first gun - so why fight it? I tell them to look at 9mm's or .45's (full-sized) and then go back and buy a .22 if/when you feel you need one.

Don't tell me that the first time you shot a "real" handgun (9mm, 45acp, or something similar) that you didn't get a little thrill from the flash-and-boom. Come on........think back.........further back........
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Old October 23, 2013, 10:00 AM   #48
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Very few people want a .22lr pistol as their first gun - so why fight it?
I disagree, based only on the experience of people I know.

For someone dipping a toe in to see if he likes the sport, being able to buy 500 rounds for eight or nine dollars almost everywhere (the good old days), was powerful incentive.

Almost everyone I know started on a .22. That may give it a reverse cache, which is distinguishable from real utility.
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Old October 23, 2013, 10:32 AM   #49
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Okay, few people have any earthly idea what they want when they contemplate beginning the art of shooting.

A .22 was one (IMO, arguably the best; see arguments above) way to begin exploring what I wanted. As it turned out I did, indeed, want a .22 but learned that I eventually wanted other things as well.

FWIW, the .22 (which was the first firearm I ever bought) was not the first firearm I ever owned/carried. That one was a nickel-plated .25 auto (a gift) which, believe me, I would never recommend as anyone's first experience with a firearm.

Best,

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Old October 23, 2013, 11:00 AM   #50
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And although you have to wear ear protection when shooting 9mm, you still have to wear ear protection when shooting .22
I know you have to at most ranges, and I know if you don't then you will suffer some hearing damage. But "have to" is such a strong word when I know for ages I didn't.

Hell, I never used hearing protection growing up and I shot .22, .243, 30.06, and 12GA both hunting, plinking, and at the range. I also never wore hearing protection in the Army until about my 4 year of service, most of us didn't. I was shooting 5.56mm and 7.62mm both in full auto. Yes it hurt the ears, you learned to deal with it, we still shot expert. And yes my hearing suffered but it's been many years since and I can still hear reasonably well.

Don't construe this as my suggesting you should wear hearing protection. But if I were out in the wild hunting and I was only planning on a few shots to get my prey. I myself would go without as the damage is going to be pretty minimal to my already beat up hearing.
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