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Old October 17, 2013, 04:38 PM   #1
Opinated
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Mosin-Nagant

This subject may have been beat to death, but at least this does not hijack the thread of someone else.
Gun store has a case of the Moisin-Nagant for about $193 with local sales tax included-- out the door. Seems high compared to the prices that others mention for these, but no shipping or FFL fees to be added.
Includes bayonet, cleaning kit and ammo pouch. The accessories were not on display. Heavily coated in preservative, but not as dark and thick as the cosmoline of 50 years ago. Some stocks have small expertly-done patches in the area around the trigger assembly. Not sure what to make of the markings. On the left side just in front of the bolt, small etchings that appear to be done with laser-- appear to be a serial number and the abbreviation of some company apparently in Vermont or Virginia. No doubt these were done recently. With all the grease, handling was problematic with the clothes I was wearing.
I did not buy one.
Would you suggest that I do? Price too high? Do the new markings offer any information about what model this is or the importer?.
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Old October 17, 2013, 05:14 PM   #2
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Importer stamps (what you're looking at) don't matter...Richmond Arms, CAI, etc...

Street price online now is $129, at multiple dealer sites. Add about $20/rifle for shipping (less for multiples combining shipping), and at $150 I'd say it's far from a "deal" at $193, even if it includes FFL transfers if you don't have a C&R.

There was another thread recently on this, and they (the sellers) seem to think the crate has value, while I think they'd have to pay ME to take it away...

Laws of economics would generally indicate that volume purchases deserve a discount, not a price PREMIUM...

I'd call someone like J&G or AIM, negotiate a quantity buy including shipping, and also negotiate a deal for all the transfers with a local FFL. I'm sure you can do better than the "deal" you're looking at.
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Old October 17, 2013, 05:23 PM   #3
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The crate was not for individual rifles-- big crate with 30 or more rifles. Buy one and you just get a box--assumed to be corrugated, also not on display. They did offer 3 for about $171 each out the door-- but I do not want or need 3. Probably will just forgo the Moisin altogether. I do have an 1891 Chilean Mauser.
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Old October 17, 2013, 05:24 PM   #4
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I just saw an add for cabelas. They were on sale for $129 each. I have seen them cheaper on slickguns.com and the like.
My 1942 also has the etched american arms company label on it. I think they are just the ones who get them from Russia and sell them to gun stores marked up, who sell them to us marked up. That's my impression at least... I don't think they actually do anything with the weapon.
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Old October 17, 2013, 05:26 PM   #5
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Ohhh, buy a gun, get an empty crate with it?
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Old October 17, 2013, 05:30 PM   #6
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I don't think that is too far out of line for a retail price.

Yeah, there are vendors selling for less, but the AIM/Classic Arms/JG Sales prices are not really retail prices. For the retail places, you also are pretty much with the luck of the draw as far as what you get. If you have a crate to go through, you get to pick the one you want out of the pile.

So if I was going to order one (and pretend I didn't have an 03 FFL),
$130 for the rifle, $20 shipping, $20 FFL Fee, $25 state background check fee, I am at $195 out the door, and I am still stuck with whatever rifle I get.

The marking is most likely the import mark, from Century Arms. There are some comments on what to look for in this thread:

http://thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=532586
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Old October 17, 2013, 06:46 PM   #7
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The linked thread was helpful plus entertaining. I was going to ask about the aerosol brake parts cleaner. Any reason not to use it on metal gun parts?
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Old October 17, 2013, 08:52 PM   #8
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A touch pricy

I got mine recently for $179 and that was with the coveted hex receiver. Plus it was pretty well cleaned up. The non hex were selling for $159.
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Old October 17, 2013, 09:22 PM   #9
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Quote:
I was going to ask about the aerosol brake parts cleaner. Any reason not to use it on metal gun parts?
I seem to recall it being good at removing oils from metal, so if you use it on a gun you should make sure it is oiled before you put the gun away.
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Old October 17, 2013, 09:27 PM   #10
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For just a little more you could find a K31 Swiss. 3 times the workmanship.

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Old October 18, 2013, 06:52 PM   #11
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If one owns a Mosin-Nagant, the cans of surplus ammo typically note that the primers are corrosive. Lots of videos on YouTube showing Cosmoline removal from the M-N with hot water. Does the cleaning after using corrosive ammo also need to be that extensive or is some simpler, faster, procedure adequate? Imagine shooting 5 rounds in 5 minutes and then cleaning for an hour or more. Doesn't work well for me.
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Old October 18, 2013, 07:06 PM   #12
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not really uncommon, that's about the average price around here before tax.

a lot of guys claiming you can still get them for $100 have C&R FFLs so they get dealer pricing on them. a lot of times you are lucky to find them online for less than $150 and then you have to pay shipping and FFL fee so really the pricing comes out to about the same either way. the days of $50 mosin nagants are long gone, I'm afraid.
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Old October 18, 2013, 08:23 PM   #13
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If you just want to pop off a couple rounds with your mosin, I'd suggest buying modern non corrosive 7.62x54r, like PPU (prvi partizan). If you're going to be shooting it all day then corrosive surplus is definitely the way to go, it's worth the clean up after.
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Old October 19, 2013, 05:27 AM   #14
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when i return from the range i remove barrel from wood while my tea kettle warms up. when it whistles i pour some boiling down the chamber to flush out the salt used in primer. then a dry patch then start cleaning my mosin nagants,SKS's or whatever else i take to desert and shoot some $.16 each soviet or bulgarian light ball spam can surplus. SKS T56 shoots tulammo fine.
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Old October 19, 2013, 05:36 AM   #15
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i bought a MN M31-30 from royal tiger in april for $60 as a parts gun. i traded my 1944 MN M44 for a 1927 ex dragoon MN M91-30.. now i buy T53 MN chinese M44 from century arms for $60 each using my C&R03FFL. the last 2 T53 were 1954.4 and a 1955 and both had soviet M44 stocks on them and all matching numbers. one (1954,4) was missing front magazine/action screw and other was missing the front metal ferral on hand guard. i just ordered wed morning another T53 ($60)and a good austrian M95 8X56R carbine ($120).. the M95 will kick more than any MN and will stop my whining about "excessive recoil"
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Old October 19, 2013, 08:28 AM   #16
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I haven't really noticed much excessive recoil with my M95 but then again all I've shot is handloads.
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Old October 19, 2013, 10:27 AM   #17
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Quote:
when i return from the range i remove barrel from wood while my tea kettle warms up. when it whistles i pour some boiling down the chamber to flush out the salt used in primer. then a dry patch
I don't take it out of the wood, but that is a good way to do it.

-Put on the tea pot.
-Fix bayonet.
-Stick rifle in ground behind garage.
-Squirt boiling water into chamber with Turkey Baster several times, so a good quantity of water has gone through the bore. I also dip the front 1/2" of the bolt into the water, and swirl it around a couple times.
-wait ~30 seconds, most of the water will evaporate.
-put catch pan under bore, squirt wd40 into chamber, until it runs out muzzle. Squirt WD40 on the bolt face, and in the firing pin hole.
-squirt breakfree into chamber until it runs out the muzzle, plus on the bolt face, and in the firing pin hole (tiny bit).
-run 1 dry patch through.

And you are done. It takes about a minute, including the time waiting for the water to evaporate.

The water doesn't need to be boiling to remove the salts, but it evaporates faster. Lately I have just been using hot tap water, and it still works fine, and is a little quicker.
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Old October 19, 2013, 11:40 AM   #18
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I use patches soaked with Windex with vinegar, about 6, initially.
Then a dry patch. Then four or five Break Free patches. Then a brush 10 or so passes, then three or four more Break Free patches, then a dry patch.

That's for regular shooting.
On getting a "new" Mosin, I scrub the rifling thoroughly with a copper removal fluid, brush the bejabbers out of it, use more Break Free patches. Takes longer, but once the initial scrub out's done subsequent shooting cleanup isn't that big a deal.

With high-volume shooting, may run a copper cleaner through once a year or so, just to make sure it doesn't build up too far.

Never bothered with water, too lazy.
Bores on mine are fine.

Pouring boiling water down the barrel is too much hassle for me, it wasn't done by the Russian military, I see no need to do it myself.
Others seem to like it. Won't hurt anything, just more effort than necessary.
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Old October 19, 2013, 02:19 PM   #19
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Quote:
Pouring boiling water down the barrel is too much hassle for me, it wasn't done by the Russian military, I see no need to do it myself.
The Soviets may not have done it, but the British did to clean Enfields. The Soviets certainly did something to clean their rifles, the oil cans we al have thrown in a drawer someplace had 2 compartments, one of which was some sort of solvent.

Funny you think hot water is "too much of a hassle" yet by your description you use about 16 patches. I use 1.
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Old October 19, 2013, 03:16 PM   #20
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having passed on a lot of MNs when the expensive ones were $79, I've got no interest in any at more than double that price.

Now, if its a case of Moisin Nagants for $193 AND they throw in the case, I'd buy that.

If you shoot surplus European ammo, assume it is corrosive primed. Clean with water, first, (doesn't have to be hot to work) then normal cleaning & oil.

Someone was on here a little while ago, warning us all about the dangers of "flash rust" from using hot/boiling water. He might be right, but I've never noticed it. I think hot water is a good idea, because after you clean, you can have tea! (or coffee)

Some people swear by Windex, for cleaning out the corrosive salts. It works. But not because of the ammonia, because of the water in it.
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Old October 19, 2013, 04:11 PM   #21
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Mosin-Nagant

Quote:
Originally Posted by Opinated View Post
The crate was not for individual rifles-- big crate with 30 or more rifles. Buy one and you just get a box--assumed to be corrugated, also not on display. They did offer 3 for about $171 each out the door-- but I do not want or need 3. Probably will just forgo the Moisin altogether. I do have an 1891 Chilean Mauser.
I wouldn't assume you get a box. You might get a bag for the accessories though. That would be a good price for the recent m44's I've seen. Now I'm assuming your looking at the 91/30's?
The hex receivers bump the price up some. On those with the scoped sniper model much higher. One advantage you have is you can hand pick yourself for the better ones. You can probably find one for $129 with out accessories , then there's possibly tax, shipping , ffl transfer.
Personally I wouldn't let $20 keep me from getting one if I wanted it. I also think everyone should own one these and a piece of history.

Last edited by Garycw; October 19, 2013 at 04:32 PM.
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Old October 20, 2013, 12:52 AM   #22
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Em,
The Soviets had an alkaline solution in one compartment as a cleaner/neutralizer & oil in the other side.

In my case, I don't mess with boiling water, either creating it & risking a burn or a mess in pouring it down the bore, and I don't have to worry about where it goes when it comes out the other end.
I do not disassemble my rifles beyond removing the bolt.

I can do the whole process sitting in front of the TV in the living room.
For me, simpler & easier.
For you, do whatever you want.
My point was that boiling water is not necessary for those looking for alternatives.

There is no one single correct way to clean a Mosin.

You may notice I didn't even get into the WD-40 thing, which I will not allow in any of my guns.
Denis
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Old October 20, 2013, 05:16 AM   #23
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I bought my Mosin when it was 90 dollars from a local big box store a few years ago. Cleaning has been minimal. I just use Windex to get me from my shooting spot to home, as supposedly it neutralizes the corrosive salts in the primers. After that, some hot water, oil, and done. It might take an extra 5 minutes, but hey, it's a 90 dollar rifle. Maybe I'm just too far gone, but I actually like cleaning guns so I don't mind.

Also, do yourself a big favor and take apart your bolt and get all the cosmoline/grease out of there. If your bolt gets too hot it'll bind up if you don't get it all. If you disassemble it completely you can just throw all the parts in a pot of boiling water for a few minutes and all the cosmoline should go away.

Brake cleaner worked pretty good for me and all the metal parts too.
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Old October 20, 2013, 07:55 AM   #24
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Aim Surplus lists Mosin's from $119. To $179 I have an 03 FFL so shipping is the only other cost and my Westie receives a cookie from the UPS driver...a win-win situation for me. I would not invest more than $120 in any Mosin as I enjoy shooting other rifles more than mosin's and to an old guy the carbines are brutal on my shoulder. Others love em'.
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Old October 21, 2013, 09:39 AM   #25
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Quote:
My point was that boiling water is not necessary for those looking for alternatives.
Correct, it isn't. All that is really needed to remove salts is water, the advantage to boiling\hot water is that it evaporates much quicker.

Quote:
You may notice I didn't even get into the WD-40 thing, which I will not allow in any of my guns.
Denis
The only thing I use WD40 for is to make sure all the water is out of the bore. That is what it was made for, Water Displacement. I use CLP to keep things lubed and protected.
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