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Old October 12, 2013, 03:56 PM   #51
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30-30 bullets also have the advantage of being designed to work at a pretty narrow variation of velocities.
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Old October 12, 2013, 04:24 PM   #52
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I have owned a few 30-30's over the years, but last year was the first time I hunted with one. I was not impressed. The doe I shot (Through both lungs) skipped off and went about 75 yards. Yes, it killed it, but there was a ravine behind where it dropped that would make most people dizzy looking down. The 30-30 does not have near the shock effect I thought it would. I was using 170 GR Rem Corlockts. Had I been using my 7MM Mauser or .260, I doubt it would have gone 50 yards at a flat out run if hit in the same place.
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Old October 12, 2013, 06:13 PM   #53
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I have seen monster moose only take 8 steps and fall over from a 30-30 so there are too many variables to generalize.
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Old October 12, 2013, 09:04 PM   #54
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Had I been using my 7MM Mauser or .260, I doubt it would have gone 50 yards at a flat out run if hit in the same place.
You never can tell- I've seen 'em run 300 yards with their heart blown in two from a hot loaded .270WIN, and I've seen 'em flipped over backwards into the dieing cockroach position by a short barrelled, very lightly loaded 8mm Commission Rifle..... every one is different.
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Old October 12, 2013, 10:26 PM   #55
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Quote:
Quote:
Had I been using my 7MM Mauser or .260, I doubt it would have gone 50 yards at a flat out run if hit in the same place.

You never can tell- I've seen 'em run 300 yards with their heart blown in two from a hot loaded .270WIN, and I've seen 'em flipped over backwards into the dieing cockroach position by a short barrelled, very lightly loaded 8mm Commission Rifle..... every one is different.
I haven't had a deer run more than about 30 yards in the past few years. Guess I've just gotten lucky. What has really amazed me this year is the performance of my new muzzleloader. I got a T/C Impact .50 caliber and I use 250 gr Barnes TMZ's and 100 volumetric grains of Blackhorn 209. I've taken two healthy size does with it this year and they both were dead before they hit the ground. Instant rigor mortis. No kicking or anything. I've had several DRT kills with my centerfire rifles but none as instant as these two kills.

How does this relate to the topic of the .30-30? Just because you don't have blazing velocity doesn't mean you can't put a deer down with the quickness. My load for my muzzleloader has a MV around 1900-2000 fps. I shot both those deer right at a hundred yards so that bullet had lost a little steam by then. But the bullet I was using was made to open up even at very slow velocities.

On the other side of that, If you were to load a bullet designed for .30-30 velocity in a .300wm for example, you would most likely have a very large, explosive varmint round.

A bullet made to open up at the right velocity and proper shot placement makes all the difference
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Old October 13, 2013, 09:25 AM   #56
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This is why the 30-30 gets dismissed these days and its a shame. Everyone equates speed to killing power and its not always the case. We are getting a new bunch of shooter/snipers and not hunters.
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Old October 13, 2013, 01:35 PM   #57
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I fear that you will eventually see slower cartridges like the .30-30 slip off into obsolescence (what ones haven't already), except for the ones that are made to be chambered in an AR rifle.

And it's entirely the fault of my generation (I'm 25). Guys my age want a huge overkill magnum or something with a detachable mag and picatinny rails all over it to hunt with. "Tactical" is the name of the game for the future of firearms, sadly it has even infected the .30-30 lever action rifle:

http://mossberg.com/product/rifles-l...-464-spx/41026
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Old October 13, 2013, 02:56 PM   #58
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Oh no

http://mossberg.com/product/rifles-l...-464-spx/41026

I got a little sick to my stomach when I saw that...
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Old October 13, 2013, 04:13 PM   #59
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Link cme up "page not available". If It was that tactaUNcool AR stocked abomination I'm glad. I don't want to lose my lunch!
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Old October 13, 2013, 05:17 PM   #60
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It came up with a Mossborg header but page not available. Hopefully they discontinued the abomination.
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Old October 13, 2013, 05:34 PM   #61
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I think the line of thought about a lung shot got lost here. Half the descriptions here did not sound like lung shots. I stated "Skipped away", not run flat out. Yes, I also hunt in a shotgun area with a smooth bore and slugs, (Kind of a slow slug") and a lung shot puts them down in less than 50 yards if they break out into a flat out run. Anything can happen with a bullet wound, but I suspect the norm for a 30-30 is not spectacular. When I lung hit a deer with a .260 or a 7MM Mauser, there are pieces of lung laying on the ground behind where I shot at the deer. I sometimes use a 7.62x39, but if I cannot get a neck shot, I shoot it right through the shoulder. I have shot two deer and "Flipped them on their back" as Jimbob86 said, but I have a hard time picturing doing that with a 30-30.
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Old October 13, 2013, 07:42 PM   #62
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If you are having trouble with the link, just do a Google image search for "Mossberg 464 SPX"

Unfortunately, I'm pretty sure they haven't discontinued it.

Gunplummer, are you saying that you feel the 7.62x39 is a better killer than .30-30? If so there's plenty of ballistics data and first hand accounts that will disprove that. The 7.62x39 will do the job, but certainly not better than the .30-30.
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Old October 13, 2013, 08:16 PM   #63
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Gunplummer, how much hydrostatic shock you want is a decision we all have to make. I agree, the hypervelocity rounds make quicker stops. When meat hunting, I think the meat tastes much better if I punch a nice hole and let the animal run until it bleeds out. .30-30 through the lungs makes for some good tasting meat. .264 Win mag, .257 Wby, and 7rum(pushing a Berger) all make for some devesdating damage. Near instant kills. Bloody, blood shot meat.
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Old October 14, 2013, 10:47 AM   #64
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Where did I say the 7.62x39 is better than the 30-30? I used that as an example of something just as anemic as a 30-30. Where is all the magnum nonsense coming from? Other than a .44 Magnum revolver, I don't even own one. My point was, the 30-30 is not the cartridge it is made out to be. I use marginal cartridges to hunt deer, but am aware of the limitations. I was somewhat surprised at the performance of the 30-30. I can't imagine the new leverloution ammunition being anything more than a sales gimmick.
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Old October 14, 2013, 01:28 PM   #65
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Leveroution is a slightly faster than normal loading. Its big benefit is a high B.C. bullet. Its not a gimmick, but neither is it significant improvement in performance.
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Old October 14, 2013, 01:53 PM   #66
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Leveroution is a slightly faster than normal loading. Its big benefit is a high B.C. bullet. Its not a gimmick, but neither is it significant improvement in performance.
I wouldn't call them high B.C. bullets, higher than a RN for FN but, still not high in comparison with other rifle bullets.
.277 G1 BC for the 140 grain and .330 G1 BC for the 160 grain. I'd call that decent, at best. Compare that to a 155 grain VLD, in the same caliber with a G1 BC of .483
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Old October 14, 2013, 02:09 PM   #67
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The 220 Berger has a .743 B.C.
The leveroution ammo has a high BC for ammo that can safely work in a tube magazine.
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Old October 14, 2013, 04:11 PM   #68
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I've had very good luck with BOTH bullet weights. But I agree that Winchester 170 gr Power Point is always deadly up close or way out there at 150 yards or so. This bullet always makes a deadly wound channel through the chest cavity. I've shot deer at 150 yards that bounded away but toppled after just a couple jumps. In contrast, I've observed deer shot at same distance by 7mm MAG that ran 100 yards before toppling. Go figure.

In my opinion based upon over 40 years experience, the common 30-30 kills far better than paper charts would suggest.

30-30 is a keeper!

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Old October 15, 2013, 10:57 AM   #69
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I sure hope the .30-30 doesnt become obsolete. I plan to buy a used Marlin for my daughter to hunt with eventually. I am a young guy, and love my AR-15's and other tacticool rifles, but there is something about levering a round into the chamber while hunting that "seems" right.

Holy runon sentence batman!

I have a Marlin 336 in .35 Remington that will go deer hunting with me this year. My Marlin 1895M will be backup.
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Old October 15, 2013, 12:40 PM   #70
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I have owned a few 30-30's over the years, but last year was the first time I hunted with one. I was not impressed. The doe I shot (Through both lungs) skipped off and went about 75 yards. Yes, it killed it, but there was a ravine behind where it dropped that would make most people dizzy looking down. The 30-30 does not have near the shock effectI thought it would. I was using 170 GR Rem Corlockts. Had I been using my 7MM Mauser or .260, I doubt it would have gone 50 yards at a flat out run if hit in the same place.
You're worried about 25 yards

If you're worried about the ravine then don't shoot next to it.

You're going to condemn the 30-30 based on a single experience, after a hundred years of reliable service.

Interesting read on "stopping power"
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stopping_power
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Old October 15, 2013, 06:47 PM   #71
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Gunplummer, what do you think people are making it out to be? It's a light lower cost deer cartridge available in light handy rifles, if you want. It gets no more hyped than allot of other calibers.
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Old October 15, 2013, 07:27 PM   #72
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My marlin 336 30-30 with the core lokt .170 grain has taken many deer that with the proper bullet placement never take another step. Practice practice practice.
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Old October 15, 2013, 07:31 PM   #73
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I have taken almost 10 deer with my 30-30. Never had one run more than 10 yards, most dropped on the spot. Now that I live in Lower Michigan I cannot hunt with it due to laws. I bought a CVA muzzleloader 4 years ago and have had good success with it every time I've pulled the trigger. I will say I would love to go back to the 30-30 for hunting I still break it out and fire it at the ranges and am always accurate with it.
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Old October 15, 2013, 10:45 PM   #74
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My point was, the 30-30 is not the cartridge it is made out to be.
I'm sure the millions of deer killed with a "thudy-thudy" in the past century or so will be glad to know that!
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Old October 16, 2013, 03:52 AM   #75
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They did not make it a seven shooter for nothing.
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