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Old October 9, 2013, 04:56 PM   #26
PatientWolf
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The 30-30 can be used on deer?

Seriously, I'd be tempted to try the Hornady LE and judge for myself the accuracy, feeding etc. One box, although not cheap, would be worth trying.
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Old October 9, 2013, 05:17 PM   #27
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Eldest Daughter uses a Marlin 30A and 150gr Hornady RN loaded to 2400 f/sec ..... works pretty well.
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Old October 9, 2013, 06:58 PM   #28
reynolds357
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The Lever Evolution benefits much more from B.C. than it does velocity.
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Old October 9, 2013, 07:13 PM   #29
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I’d bet Boomer58 is correct in that the extra 20 grains probably is not issue per se.

If I had to guess I'd say the 20 grains of bullet weight didn't matter but the bullet construction did.

The jackets on the 170 grain bullet were just a few thousandths thicker, and the velocity was lower so the expansion was a bit less, and a bit slower.
I think that’s why the 170s went through and the 150s didn’t.

Between myself and my 2 friends Randy and Brad, we killed 8 deer with 30-30s, and all those hit with the 170 grain bullets had exits including one Randy killed that was hit lengthwise.

Only one of those hit with a 150 had an exit.

Brad was using 170 grain factory Winchesters loads. His deer dropped as well as those hit with my 170 gr handloads using Hornady bullets which Randy and I were using.

I and Randy shot 3 or the 8 deer with 150 grain bullets,
1 Winchester, 1 Remington and one handload with a Speer bullet.

Only the one I shot with the Winchester 150 gr had an exit wound, but it also hit low in the neck in front of the chest so it only had to go about 6” to come out.

Some hunters may have killed a lot more deer than 8 with 30-30s, and they would be better to give advice on bullets than I am.

Also most white tail deer are not as large as Nevada Mule Deer, so that may be a factor too. Just my best guess.
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Old October 9, 2013, 10:14 PM   #30
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The jackets on the 170 grain bullet were just a few thousandths thicker, and the velocity was lower so the expansion was a bit less, and a bit slower. I think that’s why the 170s went through and the 150s didn’t.
I've seen something similar when shooting muzzleloaders with pure lead round balls. With a light 65 grain charge the ball will pass through a deer with very little deformation, but with a 100 grain charge the ball would flatten into a perfect disc and stick in the hide on the far side.

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Old October 9, 2013, 10:47 PM   #31
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In this time of want, buy whatever you can get your hands on and shoot them. Go with the most accurate, as someone observed, a deer cannot tell the difference between a 150 and a 170 gr. factory load.

Better yet, hand load some cast bullets with a large flat meplat in the 150-180 range. My Marlin with a 165 Ranch dog mold bullet, with gas check, launched at 1700 fps kills deer deader than any jacketed bullet I have used with less meat damage. I would guess max effective range with out excessive holdover is 150 yards, which exceeds by a factor of 3, the range at which I hunt in the woods or bayous.
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Old October 10, 2013, 05:37 AM   #32
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I always thought the jacketed bullets I used killed a deer as dead as one could possibly be. Now I have learned they can be killed even "deader" with the use of cast bullets at 1700 fps?


I learn something new every day
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Old October 10, 2013, 07:32 AM   #33
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^Me too!
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Old October 10, 2013, 07:46 AM   #34
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The main reason for not considering the Hornady LE is based on internet information. Lots of reading turned up lots of reviews that say It doesn't work well in 94 Winchesters. Some rave about it's accuracy in the old "cowboy" gun, most say It is inconsistant at best.
Don't believe everything you read. They shot great out of the Win 94 I used to have. It seems to be rifle-specific. One gun off the shelf will shoot them great, another gun off the same shelf won't like them.

The worst that can happen is you try a box and find out your gun doesn't like them. The best that can happen is that you get an extra 30 to 50 yds practical range.
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Old October 10, 2013, 09:09 AM   #35
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In my Marlin XLR with LeveRevolution powder the Hornady 160 FTX and 140 GTX shoot much more accurately than any round nose or flat nose bullet I have tried, either factory loads or hand loads.

After I changed the trigger to a Wild West Guns trigger and dropped the trigger pull from 7 lbs to 2.5 lbs, the results got really good, especially with hand loads.
The average group size dropped from just over 2 inches to just over 1 inch for the average of all loads shot.

With the LR powder and 160 grain FTX bullets I managed to get three hand loads to average under 1 inch at 100 yards and one load to average under just under 0.7. I got the best results close to the factory velocities.
The 140 GTX loads had one average under 1 inch and 1 average under 0.6 inches. Three averaged just under 1.3 inches.

By the way, the LR powder isn't quite the same as the powder loaded in Hornady factory ammo. It is close but Hornady says they tune the mixture slightly for individual calibers. The LR powder sold for reloading is a more general mixture that covers multiple calibers.
Slower velocity loads averaged above 1.1 inch so Hornady must have figured out what works for their FTX and GTX bullets.

All round nose and flat nose 150 grain bullet loads were hard pressed to average under 1.8 inches and nothing got close to the flex tip velocities, even with the LR powder.

Just like any other powder, it is up to the loader to find a powder charge that works best in a particular rifle.
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Old October 10, 2013, 11:59 AM   #36
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I shoot the 150gr bullet zeroed to 200, but right now your lucky of find any...
I got a box of Remington 150's with the rifle, found more at BPS, and have ordered some Winchester Power Point 170's from Cabala's (yes, they had them in stock!).
Mght throw in a box of the LE for grins. But another reason they aren't on the top of my list is the less than stellar results I had with them accuracy wise in my Contender G2 35 Remington Super14. School's still out on their use in the 'tender, but kind of leaning with the belief of several that the LE needs a longer tube to perform well.
A quick function check with the 150 grain Remingtons last weekend resulted in six rounds, off hand, 50 yards in a six inch bull. With lots of other things to do at an informal shooting event on a friends farm I didn't have time to bench It for a real test. But six rounds off hand in a minute of deer group at 50 yards is kind of a real world test.
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Old October 10, 2013, 01:26 PM   #37
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Can even be used on moose...

goto 24:50
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6xZsg...Ng0BZQ&index=3
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Old October 10, 2013, 07:43 PM   #38
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I am at work right now, so I cannot check to verify, but I believe it is Winchester offers a 150 gr. HOLLOWPOINT.

Hard to find; maybe impossible other than internet. That's been my experience.

Anyway, they leave a wicked exit wound. Much moreso than a softpoint, in my experience.

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Old October 10, 2013, 08:08 PM   #39
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^ You are correct, Remington also has a HP at 170gr very similar to the W/W cartridge.
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Old October 10, 2013, 08:12 PM   #40
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Mystro,

I enjoyed the video. It's amazing how many people will tell you that the .30-30 is inadequate for big game even inside 200 yards.

The newer whiz bang magnums may get all the publicity but I'm gonna keep rockin' the old stuff
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Old October 10, 2013, 08:45 PM   #41
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Also funny how a Contender with less or equal ballistics gets more respect as far as hunting is concerned.
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Old October 10, 2013, 09:00 PM   #42
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Steve, its a known fact that when the hyper velocity rifles came out, the old .30-30 lost its ability to kill Deer, Elk, Bear, Moose, and everything else it had killed for years and years. I guess the animals started wearing body armor of something.
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Old October 11, 2013, 08:15 AM   #43
Brian Pfleuger
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30-30 Winchester for deer

Quote:
Originally Posted by reynolds357 View Post
Steve, its a known fact that when the hyper velocity rifles came out, the old .30-30 lost its ability to kill Deer, Elk, Bear, Moose, and everything else it had killed for years and years. I guess the animals started wearing body armor of something.
[snark]
You've got that backwards.... the magnums were introduced when the animals grew armor plating due to exposure to radioactive fallout from the nuclear tests during the 40s/50s.

Before then, the 30-30 and similar rounds were foundational hunting rounds, providing for families across the nation. Now, you've got to deal with the armor plating.

Ask anyone on the internet. .30-30 will barely kill a groundhog now.
[/snark]
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Old October 11, 2013, 10:18 AM   #44
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Now I know the rest of the story.
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Old October 11, 2013, 12:46 PM   #45
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I love this forum.....

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Old October 11, 2013, 01:15 PM   #46
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The 30-30 has been a deer harvester for quite a long time. I believe almost any factory soft point would work great on deer. I personally use Remington Cor Lokt 15o grain.
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Old October 11, 2013, 06:25 PM   #47
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I always thought the jacketed bullets I used killed a deer as dead as one could possibly be. Now I have learned they can be killed even "deader" with the use of cast bullets at 1700 fps?
"Reading something on the intewebz" =/= "learning"....
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Old October 11, 2013, 06:47 PM   #48
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Ask anyone on the internet. .30-30 will barely kill a groundhog now.
IT WILL???? EVEN WITH THE ARMOR PLATING???? Next you'll be trying to tell me a .460 Weatherby mag is TOO MUCH gun for squirrels.
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Old October 11, 2013, 07:21 PM   #49
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You can never have too much gun, especially for squirrels. I like the never released 20mm Eargensplitten Loudenboomber Mark II at over 20,000 fps On a serious note (kinda) I've been shooting 170gr Sierras over either 3031 or H335 for many years. I do my job, the rifle does its. I've used 150gr Sierra and Speer and didn't have a problem either. LE bullets don't like my rifle - factory or had loads.
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Old October 12, 2013, 10:06 AM   #50
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170 grain has been my choice for a jacketed lead core bullet type but have strayed to try a couple boxes of Barnes 30-30 150 grain TSX-FN to see how they compare ! I love this caliber......easy to handle even in light lever guns !
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