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Old September 23, 2013, 05:01 PM   #1
Skans
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Chicago Palm Pistol - can it be converted....

I am interested in the Chicago Palm Pistol design. For those who are familiar with the design, would you know if there is any possibility of using a .22 barrel liner to convert these to fire .22 short? Would this be legal (to make and sell), even if it were feasible?
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Old September 23, 2013, 05:22 PM   #2
Magnum Wheel Man
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I'm not positive I know exactly what the Chicago Palm Pistol is, but have a picture in my mind...

I assume it's in an obsolete cartridge, rim fire ???

I had eccentric rifled chamber inserts made from a section of 22 LR barrel, for an old 30 rim fire revolver I just shoot Colibri's or Super Colibris in the gun, but it functions fine with the 22's using the short amount of rifling in the cylinder left over after being chambered...

I can't imagine it would be illegal to re-chamber, unless it were full auto or something... Ironically it may be illegal to re-chamber in Chicago
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Old September 23, 2013, 06:34 PM   #3
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Chicago F.A. Co. " Protector Palm Pistol " . In good condition it is listed at 3000.00. Yes you could reline the barrel to .22, not illegal, it is classified as an antique, but how would you modifie the insides. It is designed to work with a much larger cartridge ( compared to a .22 short ), you would have to redesign the entire feed mechanism.
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Old September 23, 2013, 07:39 PM   #4
Mike Irwin
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No way in the world would I muck with one of those simply because of its value.

They were designed for a .30 Short rimfire cartridge. Not very powerful.
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Old September 23, 2013, 08:47 PM   #5
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Because of the design, the cartridge has to be very short, even shorter than the .22 Short. Could such a gun be made for .22 Short? Sure, but the diameter of the pistol is limited by the size of the hand, so anything much longer would not be practical. Conversion of an old one to use .22 Short would not be feasible and would destroy an antique. Further it would require cutting the front off the bullet to get it to fit, so factory ammo would not work.

I am afraid this is one of those many antique guns that will NOT be reproduced any time soon.

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Old September 24, 2013, 07:37 AM   #6
Skans
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I appreciate the replies. I did not realize that .22 short is actually longer than .30 rimfire short. I know the little palm pistol is valuable, but I thought it wold be an interesting project if I found one in miserable cosmetic condition. Oh well.
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Old September 24, 2013, 07:44 AM   #7
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this one say's it's in 32 caliber ( which could easily be wrong ) but offers up several pictures...

I was thinking they worked similarly to a revolver, & this guy kinda looks like that ( but I'll admit, I have no real idea or experience, only looking at the pics )

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/Vie...Item=365571661

this one also say's it's chamber in 32 Rim Fire "extra short" but looking at the design, I'd think it could rather easily be chambered for 22 short... but the formidable starting prices on both these guns would keep me from wanting to play with it... ( actually again, just looking at the pictures, the drum looks like it could easily be machined from modern tool steel, & possibly even have room to chamber 32 acp or 32 S&W short ??? )

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/Vie...Item=366024080
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Old September 24, 2013, 08:03 AM   #8
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Hum...

OK, they were .32...

Maybe it's the Sharps 4-barrel that took a .30 rim fire...
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Old September 24, 2013, 08:10 AM   #9
Magnum Wheel Man
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my Sharpes & Hankins 4 barrel is also 32 Rimfire... but maybe it's chambered differently than the earlier models ???

BTW... I had no eye deer the cartridges were worth so much

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Old September 24, 2013, 08:44 AM   #10
Skans
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Still, where would you find .32 rimfire short??
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Old September 24, 2013, 08:47 AM   #11
PetahW
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.

FWIW, a "rechamber" means reaming a chamber to a larger cartridge case on the same size bore.

A change from a .30 or .32 cal down to .22cal would necessitate a complete rework.


.
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Old September 24, 2013, 09:39 AM   #12
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"Still, where would you find .32 rimfire short??"

Gunshows where people have old cartridges for sale, or speciality cartridge shows.

For about $5 per cartridge.

Or better than $1k for a complete, unopened box.

Oh, silly me.

Close to TWO thousand.

http://www.joesalter.com/detail.php?f_qryitem=14311
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Old September 24, 2013, 09:42 AM   #13
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OK, just confirmed that the .30 Short rimfire WAS one of the cartridges chambered in the Sharps 4 barrel.

I know it was chambered in at least several, .22 .25 (possibly), .30, and .32.
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Old September 24, 2013, 10:11 AM   #14
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Little trivia, In one of the Sabata movie series, Lee Van Cleef used a Palm gun in one of his gun fights. He was shooting bad guys and dropping them with one shot at 50 feet ( no sights ), he must have killed at least a half dozen with that little gun. Not bad shooting for an ex accountant.
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Old September 24, 2013, 10:56 AM   #15
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Cartridges can still be purchased, though admittedly not cheaply enough ( usually ) to just go out & shoot them...

at least one of these auctions has a buy it now of $110.00 for a full box of 50

http://www.gunbroker.com/Vintage-Amm...ds=32+rim+fire
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Old September 24, 2013, 11:01 AM   #16
Mike Irwin
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Magnum,

Neither one of those auctions is for the correct ammunition.

The box of Peters ammo is for .32 Short, which is a longer cartridge.

The other box is for .32 Rimfire, which is MUCH longer than either the correct .32 Extra Short or the .32 Short.
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Old September 24, 2013, 11:03 AM   #17
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yep... sorry... forgot about the "extra"
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Old September 24, 2013, 11:05 AM   #18
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There is a solution.


Dixie Gun Work sells a .32 rimfire "case" that is eccentrically cut in the bottom allowing for .22 rimfire blanks/cases to be inserted as the priming mechanism.

I would get a few of these, shorten them, get some of the starter blanks (the really short ones made by RWS) and put a round ball on the end of the case and it should work fine.

Only thing is, you will have to place the cases in the chambers so the firing pin only hits the rim of the .22 blank, which is no problem.
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Old September 24, 2013, 11:11 AM   #19
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I was also thinking you could take 32 shorts, & nip the tip of the bullet off as needed to fit ( would also help keep pressures down to help save the old mechanism )

was thinking about doing this if I ever decided to try shooting my old bottom break S&W

the Dixie cases would be a good option for the ol S&W as well, though I'm not itching to shoot that one
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Old September 24, 2013, 11:14 AM   #20
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The palm pistol has two reasons to need a short round. The major one is that it has to fit inside the "cylinder", the second is that you have to be able to get it into the center hole to load the chambers.

I have never fired mine, but IMHO the idea that anyone could reliably hit a man-size target at over 10 feet is Hollywood fiction.

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Old September 24, 2013, 11:25 AM   #21
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ah... so the side cover comes off, & cartridges are fed through the gate in the center ( which I assume is the firing pin mechanism )

is the "cylinder" difficult to remove ??? it looks like a longer cartridge could be more easily fit into the cylinder, if it were removed from the gun ???
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Old September 24, 2013, 02:19 PM   #22
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No, the side cover is turned to unlock and remove it. Once the cover is off, the gun is turned on the open side and the cylinder falls out; it has to be loaded out of the gun. (Sometimes, the "trigger" needs to be pulled to get it out of the way of the cylinder, but nothing really holds the cylinder in.) The cylinder rotates on a drum shaped part that is part of the frame and inside which the hammer fits. The hammer spring lays alongside the cylinder. The "trigger" acts like a grip safety to prevent firing unless the gun is properly held; the palm squeezer part does the work of both revolving the cylinder and tripping the hammer.

Like the cylinder of any revolver, the "length" of the cylinder chamber limits the cartridge length; if the round is too long, it sticks out the front.

Jim
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Last edited by James K; September 24, 2013 at 02:24 PM.
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Old September 24, 2013, 04:23 PM   #23
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For giggles and grins, there is another Palm Pistol that looks very similar to the Chicago, but is reported to be slightly smaller. The Minneapolis Firearms Company Palm Pistol " The Protector ". .32 center fire. They look about the same but are listed separately in Flayderman's
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Old September 24, 2013, 04:56 PM   #24
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I have to ask why would you want to mess with with this nice little Palm gun that is so valuble, wouldn't that hurt the value of this gun ?
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Old September 24, 2013, 06:04 PM   #25
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The Minneapolis gun is rarer and is CF rather than rimfire. Otherwise, they seem to be identical or nearly so. Here is a link to info on the Chicago version.

https://www.google.com/search?q=Chic...pistol+value&r

Jim
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