The Firing Line Forums

Go Back   The Firing Line Forums > Hogan's Alley > Tactics and Training

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old October 8, 2013, 09:53 AM   #1
Deja vu
Senior Member
 
Join Date: March 14, 2010
Location: Border of Idaho & Montana
Posts: 2,132
best way to carry if you dont like OWB or IWB?

I dont know why but I have never liked to carry things on my hips. Currently I carry 95% of the time in my pocket. The other day at the range (my dads back yard) a friend of mine and I where practicing drawing our guns. He was notably faster, now I am not talking seconds but more like 10ths of a second.

Other than just getting use to it is there any advise you can give to speed up the draw on some one that does not like to carry on there waste band.

I have tried lots of different holsters including both IWB and OWBs and I just dont like the fat revolver sitting there.

p.s. most of my hand guns are revolvers (read my signature) the only auto I have is a Coonan Classic and it is a little bigger than a full sized 1911.
__________________
Shot placement is everything! I would rather take a round of 50BMG to the foot than a 22short to the base of the skull.

all 25 of my guns are 45/70 govt, 357 mag, 22 or 12 ga... I believe in keeping it simple
Deja vu is offline  
Old October 8, 2013, 10:38 AM   #2
Wreck-n-Crew
Senior Member
 
Join Date: March 8, 2013
Location: Ohio
Posts: 1,378
Quote:
I dont know why but I have never liked to carry things on my hips. Currently I carry 95% of the time in my pocket.
To me a pocket pistol is best for just that.

Being outgunned is not my idea of protecting myself to the best of my ability. Some people differ in their opinion, but any professional or LE I have ever known will agree. Compacts today have morephed and are better suited than a Pocket Pistol.


Quote:
I have tried lots of different holsters including both IWB and OWBs and I just dont like the fat revolver sitting there.
Shoulder holsters are a good alternaive depending on dress and weather.

Quote:
p.s. most of my hand guns are revolvers (read my signature) the only auto I have is a Coonan Classic and it is a little bigger than a full sized 1911.
My advice is get a semi-auto for carry if you can. I love my revolver, but it is not a better choice due to low capacity and reload time. Once again, Professionals, LE (one ex-swat and Special forces) I know will tell you that having as many rounds as possible is the best bet. It's about your life,not what you like and if pros say capacity....well you be the judge.
__________________
If you ever have to use a firearm, you don't get to pick the scenario!
Wreck-n-Crew is offline  
Old October 8, 2013, 10:52 AM   #3
pax
Staff
 
Join Date: May 16, 2000
Location: Washington state
Posts: 6,931
Tom Givens tells this story: the first time you put shoes on a toddler, the baby kicks them off. Then a responsible adult comes along and puts the shoes back where they belong. Toddler kicks 'em off again. Responsible adult puts the shoes back on the kid again. And on, and on, and on.

Then one day you have a kid running around wearing shoes, not getting his feet cut up from broken glass or rusty old nails in the yard, and not really thinking about it. Wearing shoes is just what people do.

Wearing a gun is kind of like that, but you have to be your own responsible adult. Find a holster you can tolerate (even if you don't like it much). Then wear it constantly, every moment you can, for at least four weeks. Give yourself a chance to adapt to the feeling, just like a toddler wearing shoes for the first time. Don't just keep pulling the gun off every chance you get. At the end of your trial time, you might still want a more comfortable alternative, but you'll always be able to wear the holster when you need it.

pax
__________________
Kathy Jackson
My personal website: Cornered Cat
pax is offline  
Old October 8, 2013, 12:07 PM   #4
Tinner666
Senior Member
 
Join Date: September 12, 2012
Location: Richmond, Va.
Posts: 344
You could carry SoB, or maybe one of those CC undershirts with built-in holster for underarm carry.
__________________
Frank--
Member, GoA, NRA-ILA, SAF, NRA Life Member
Tinner666 is offline  
Old October 8, 2013, 12:19 PM   #5
Claude Clay
Senior Member
 
Join Date: March 14, 2007
Location: CT
Posts: 314
whats been said about carrying a gun being comforting rather than comfortable

but it comes down to what works for you...
perhaps have a vest pocket enlarged and strengthened so you can pocket carry a hammerless 38, a 642 or a 332 ( 32 H&R Mag).
than practice point shooting, and shooting through the pocket.

--its very comforting when dudes in a parking lot may be talking jack at you and you have your hand in your pocket wrapped around a 642 pointed at their family jewels. it allows you to stay calm...and causes them to wonder how it is that you are not acting like a victim. throwhing them off their stride, often defuses their attack. otherwise you do still have the gun, yes?

but this requires you to become an accomplished point shooter. something most find doable after a few range lessons. remember, distances are under 10 feet and the target is rather large; 4" accuracy is fine.
__________________
NRA Instructor -- NRA Basic Pistol & Re-Loading

Make a fire for a man and you warm him for the night
Light him on fire and you warm him for the rest of his life
Claude Clay is offline  
Old October 8, 2013, 12:31 PM   #6
Nathan
Senior Member
 
Join Date: July 1, 2001
Posts: 1,940
What 357 revolver are we talking about. If we are talking a large frame 357 or j frame 640 in 357, I think your ideal rig is different.

Also, what is not working with OWB?
Nathan is offline  
Old October 8, 2013, 01:18 PM   #7
Frank Ettin
Staff
 
Join Date: November 23, 2005
Location: California - San Francisco
Posts: 6,700
Quote:
Originally Posted by Deja vu
...The other day at the range (my dads back yard) a friend of mine and I where practicing drawing our guns. He was notably faster,...
If you're concerned with speed, there is no faster access to your gun than carrying it at your waist, roughly mid-line on your dominant side, in a good holster on a good belt.

No matter how you carry, training and good practice can improve your performance. But dominant side waist carry will always be the most efficient for quickly deploying your gun.

So consider pax' post (post 3), and consider different holsters. Also, a good, sturdy belt made to support the weight of a gun is vital.
__________________
"It is long been a principle of ours that one is no more armed because he has possession of a firearm than he is a musician because he owns a piano. There is no point in having a gun if you are not capable of using it skillfully." -- Jeff Cooper
Frank Ettin is offline  
Old October 8, 2013, 08:20 PM   #8
PakWaan
Member
 
Join Date: December 9, 2007
Location: Sunny Florida
Posts: 57
I HATED IWB carry for years. A few months ago I decided to force myself to try it for 30 days. I bought a MTAC hybrid and reluctantly shoved my HK into it and strapped it on.

It took 4 days. Now I rarely carry any other way. From a concealability standpoint, it just beats the hell out of my belt holsters, and I like having my pockets free for keys, wallet, knife, and all the other crap that always wants to come along when I go out.
__________________
EDCs: HK P2000SK .40, Ed Brown Kobra Carry 1911
BUGs: Sig Sauer P938, Ruger LCP
____
Former LEO and USAF Security Forces
PakWaan is offline  
Old October 8, 2013, 08:30 PM   #9
Deja vu
Senior Member
 
Join Date: March 14, 2010
Location: Border of Idaho & Montana
Posts: 2,132
My carry guns is a S&W 640. I typically carry it with big name 110 or 125 grain ammo such as Federal or Winchester. I also carry 2 extra speed loaders in my left side pocket.

I think one of the reasons i dont like it is lack or opportunity to carry like that. I can carry at work but we have a dress code and I have to wear slacks and a single color button up shirt tucked in and a tie. This is the way I dress 6 days a week so may be I should just count on being a little slower draw. I like the idea of a coat or vest pocket. I may have to try that.
__________________
Shot placement is everything! I would rather take a round of 50BMG to the foot than a 22short to the base of the skull.

all 25 of my guns are 45/70 govt, 357 mag, 22 or 12 ga... I believe in keeping it simple
Deja vu is offline  
Old October 9, 2013, 07:07 AM   #10
daddyo
Senior Member
 
Join Date: August 5, 2013
Posts: 112
Fanny Pack!

Not as fast as on the waist but it does allow for discrete access for those way to common spooky situations that don't warrant a draw at that moment but could turn ugly fast. Those are much more common than the need for a hyper fast draw.

I have on multiple occasions accessed my firearm by either popping open the gun compartment and placing my hand on the firearm or completely removed the firearm in preparation for defending myself. In every instance the access or removal went completely undetected. I just don't think I could have done the same with waist carry. The angle of the arm and location scream "he's going for a gun".

Yes its a hated fashion piece but I'm too old, too married, and its too convenient to care about that anymore. I can carry a larger firearm in any clothing along with a spare mag and all my necessities.
daddyo is offline  
Old October 9, 2013, 07:18 AM   #11
BigD_in_FL
Junior member
 
Join Date: December 20, 2012
Location: The "Gunshine State"
Posts: 1,981
Pocket carry for me, a J frame in my front pocket of the cargo shorts du jour.
BigD_in_FL is offline  
Old October 9, 2013, 07:55 AM   #12
Qtiphky
Senior Member
 
Join Date: December 11, 2008
Location: Upper Michigan, above the Mackinac Bridge
Posts: 554
IWB for me

I have been carrying for many years, and just like everyone has said, it was weird at first. I own my own business so I wear dress pants and dress shirts that I must tuck in 95% of the time during the week. I tried with dress belts first but found my pants kept falling down and the gun would weight me down. I wasn't carrying anything big either, a Walther PPK. I got a true gun belt, that was dressy so it would work with my attire, and no more problems. I also got a different holster, one with two points of attachment to the belt and my shirts tuck in easier and the gun disappears. I now carry a S&W M&Pc in a minotaur comptac holster. Now the only problem I have carrying in work clothes is the fact that it is hard to find dress pants that aren't stinking low riders anymore. When I have normal dress pants, you can't tell. With the low riders, the gun sits directly on my hip and I look a little "wide", but you can't tell what it is when I untuck my shirt just enough so it is loose.
Qtiphky is offline  
Old October 9, 2013, 05:35 PM   #13
dawg23
Senior Member
 
Join Date: February 21, 2001
Location: Louisiana
Posts: 401
Quote:
Currently I carry 95% of the time in my pocket. Other than just getting use to it is there any advise you can give to speed up the draw on some one that does not like to carry on there waste band.
Well, one suggestion would be to never carry in the pocket of tight fitting Levis. And never buckle your seat belt while driving. Because if you do these things, you're more than likely gonna die if you need your gun in a hurry.

Others have posted good advice. Get a good holster, and carry on or slightly behind your strong side hip. Get used to it. Practice with it. Compete with it (if there's an IDPA or USPSA club in your area).

p.s. There's no rational reason to carry in a SOB holster.
__________________
.
www.PersonalDefenseTraining.net
dawg23 is offline  
Old October 10, 2013, 11:05 AM   #14
kinoons
Senior Member
 
Join Date: August 22, 2008
Location: las vegas, NV
Posts: 387
Quote:
I think one of the reasons i dont like it is lack or opportunity to carry like that. I can carry at work but we have a dress code and I have to wear slacks and a single color button up shirt tucked in and a tie. This is the way I dress 6 days a week so may be I should just count on being a little slower draw. I like the idea of a coat or vest pocket. I may have to try that.
If you're this constrained in attire, then you're right, you'll likely have to live with a slower draw. I usually carry IWB, but needs can dictate that i pocket carry sometimes. In those instances I accept the slower draw for the advantage of actually having a gun vs being unarmed.

In reality I don't believe I'd be getting in a fast draw competition with anyone. If my SA allows someone to get the drop on me completely unnoticed I'm most likely going to comply and go with the situation (extrainous circumstances aside like family and moving to a new location).
kinoons is offline  
Old October 16, 2013, 12:38 AM   #15
Tejicano
Senior Member
 
Join Date: April 4, 2013
Posts: 163
Strong side carry is not a realistic option for me so I either carry cross-draw, in a shoulder holster, or in a bag made for carry (separate compartment designed to carry a pistol).

I know that many people say off body carry is just wrong but I believe that if one a) has proper situational awareness and b) has good deliberation one can carry this way and be armed before a situation goes too far south. Besides, with a well-designed bag I can have my pistol in hand and ready to draw without even signaling that I am armed.

I have never lost something I was carrying under any situation – I cannot imagine having my bag + gun not on my person if that is where I am carrying. Besides, with my bag I can carry my FN FNP Tactical with 3 X 15 round magazines which would be difficult to conceal properly in any other rig.

Also, until both my boys (still toddlers) are old enough I will not be carrying any firearms on a belt. They are still at a stage where they sometimes want to be carried – which means little hands grabbing at my waist.
Tejicano is offline  
Old October 16, 2013, 05:28 AM   #16
kln4
Member
 
Join Date: August 13, 2013
Posts: 82
I have the same problem, except mine was the result of two lumbar spine surgeries starting 3 yrs ago, and yes I set off ALL metal detectors.
The first problem is the belts and suspenders. If you use leather, they all stretch. I went through a bunch of them. Those expensive "gun" belts I bought at the guns stores are no better or worse than the ones you buy at Wally mart. I'd guess 90% are made from the belly hide from the animal that supplied them, which stretches the most and quickest. The hide that borders the spine stretches the least, but will stretch eventually. I buy my belt hide from the local Tandy store and sew two of them together back to back, it works so far.
After going through the suspenders I bought a single shoulder rig and modeled the suspenders from the shoulder rig, That keeps the weight off my waist, and I used the same belt hide I use for the belts.
Finally I did buy a couple of the web tactical belts, they work ok but the big problem is with the buckle arrangement, and they are to wide to fit most of the normal 1 1/2 " belt loops.
kln4 is offline  
Old October 16, 2013, 06:36 AM   #17
Nathan
Senior Member
 
Join Date: July 1, 2001
Posts: 1,940
An IWB tuck able might be a good choice under a bloused shirt. Also, a shoulder rig under a jacket would work well...
Nathan is offline  
Old October 16, 2013, 08:26 AM   #18
pax
Staff
 
Join Date: May 16, 2000
Location: Washington state
Posts: 6,931
kln4 ~

Don't waste money on gun belts from the gun store. Buy them online from a reputable shop. I'm a fan of Galco's belts, but there are many others out there that do good work.

pax
__________________
Kathy Jackson
My personal website: Cornered Cat
pax is offline  
Old October 16, 2013, 06:19 PM   #19
kln4
Member
 
Join Date: August 13, 2013
Posts: 82
Quote:
Don't waste money on gun belts from the gun store. Buy them online from a reputable shop. I'm a fan of Galco's belts, but there are many others out there that do good work.

pax
I've got three of them.
kln4 is offline  
Old October 24, 2013, 04:15 PM   #20
gotthegoods
Member
 
Join Date: September 11, 2011
Posts: 51
Have you considered ankle carry?

I've never tried it, it definitely seems to be slow(er) draw and deep(er) concealment.

Have seen pricing for ankle holsters run from $20.00 to over $100.00.
gotthegoods is offline  
Old October 24, 2013, 05:16 PM   #21
FireForged
Senior Member
 
Join Date: November 4, 1999
Location: Rebel South USA
Posts: 1,186
don't laugh but I still use a Miami vice classic from galco. yep, that's what its called. I usually wear a tight underarmor shirt, the shoulder holster then a loose shirt(with collar).
__________________
Life is a web woven by necessity and chance...
FireForged is offline  
Old October 24, 2013, 05:23 PM   #22
ClydeFrog
Junior member
 
Join Date: May 1, 2010
Posts: 5,798
SOB carry, shoulder rigs, carry garments....

1st, Id advise no to any Small of Back or SOB carry(also called middle of the back). If you are pushed or fall on your back, you might have a serious spine injury or lower back problems. It's a common worker's comp injury for many state troopers/sworn LE officers who slip on the ice or are hurt on duty to fall directly onto the handcuffs, gear, weapon(s), etc.
If IWB or OWB carry is out, Id look at a decent horizontal shoulder rig with a slight cant & ideally horizontal mag holders. Aker Comfort Flex is a great rig that won't strain your neck or be hard to wear for extended periods. The Kirkpatrick Leather & Galco Miami Classic II shoulder holsters are great too. Some like the Ted Blocker Lifeline.
If shoulder rigs are not up to your standards, you might want to buy a few new concealable shirts & vests that have chest pockets. You can hide a small or compact pistol with 0 problems there. My long sleeve 5.11 charcoal shirt has pockets all through it. There are new active wear & undershirts too that can conceal small firearms too. For pocket holsters Id look at the Mika, the Tuff Products or the great DeSantis Nemnesis.
Don't forget to include a spare mag or 2. I always pack at least one extra magazine even if I have a 17/18 round pistol. The spare mags & maybe a small knife or white light can level off the weight in a shoulder rig.

Clyde
www.glockstore.com www.5.11tactical.com www.tedblockerholsters.com www.usgalco.com www.galls.com www.uscav.com www.policehq.com
ClydeFrog is offline  
Old October 24, 2013, 08:13 PM   #23
btmj
Senior Member
 
Join Date: November 1, 2011
Location: Near St. Louis, Missouri
Posts: 766
I have learned to tolerate carrying a gun on my belt, but I don't like it. If I do it one day, I have to switch to something else the next. It is not just a matter of comfort, I have an annoying medical condition that requires me to wear my belt and trousers quite loose... If I load my pockets up with too many keys or too much change, my pants start to fall off my hips... so a 25 oz gun means I have to tighten up the belt more than I should... and the next day I pay for it with bloat, constipation, and in some cases a painful bout of indigestion.... sorry to get into the gory details, but some people just don't believe me when I say I have a hard time wearing a belt holster.

That said, I still carry IWB or OWB about half the time. Particularly if I am going to be mostly standing or walking, or if the carry time is short (two hour trip to the hardware store)... IWB is very convenient.

For the other times:

I have found the "Kangaroo carry" all cotton shoulder holster to be great in the summer. I wear it over a tank-top undershirt, then a T-shirt, polo shirt, or button-up shirt over the top. Even in hot weather this works, If you chose your tank-top undershirt correctly. Get a good athletic one.

The Galco Miami Classic was mentioned. I enthusiastically recommend this rig. A really big heavy gun can be carried with this rig, so if you carry something modest like a Glock 19 or a Ruger SRC, the gun disappears, and you barely notice it.
btmj is offline  
Old October 25, 2013, 04:21 PM   #24
Skans
Senior Member
 
Join Date: November 20, 2008
Posts: 7,838
Pocket carry is all I do in my warm climate.
Skans is offline  
Old October 27, 2013, 07:54 PM   #25
Stevie-Ray
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 22, 2007
Location: The shores of Lake Huron
Posts: 4,519
Quote:
I have found the "Kangaroo carry" all cotton shoulder holster to be great in the summer. I wear it over a tank-top undershirt, then a T-shirt, polo shirt, or button-up shirt over the top. Even in hot weather this works, If you chose your tank-top undershirt correctly. Get a good athletic one.
Belly-band works great in this fashion as well. Not exactly a speed rig, but anything can be made faster through practice, and it's very comfortable. I have a DeSantis I use on occasion.
__________________
Stevie-Ray
Join the NRA/ILA
I am the weapon; my gun is a tool. It's regrettable that with some people those descriptors are reversed.
Stevie-Ray is offline  
Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 03:36 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
This site and contents, including all posts, Copyright © 1998-2014 S.W.A.T. Magazine
Copyright Complaints: Please direct DMCA Takedown Notices to the registered agent: thefiringline.com
Contact Us
Page generated in 0.13042 seconds with 7 queries