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Old October 2, 2013, 02:10 PM   #1
Sunklands
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M1 garand and hunting ammo.

A friend just bought a garand that was made by H&R. He bought it at a gun show and was told it had a new barrel and to only shoot military ammo through it. He told me he was aware of a gas plug he could purchase for shooting hunting ammo. Would it be ok to shoot 150gr core lokt's or ammo similar to without changing this plug? What's should he do?
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Old October 2, 2013, 02:24 PM   #2
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I bought a plug for mine they are cheap compared to replacing an operating rod.
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Old October 2, 2013, 02:28 PM   #3
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This site shows in detail various loads and if they can be used in a Garand or not.
http://www.garandgear.com/index.php?...oting-commerci
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Old October 2, 2013, 02:30 PM   #4
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He could just handload some softpoints using a Garand friendly load of IMR 4895 or IMR 4064 ......Midway has Lee Breechlock kits on sale for $99 right now ......
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Old October 2, 2013, 06:15 PM   #5
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The situation with the M1 is this: It's a military rifle that was carefully engineered to work with a very specific powder and bullets from 150 to no more than 173 grains.

Commercial ammo usually has different burning rate powders then the military specification ammo and the different pressure curve can cause damage to the rifle such as bending the operating rod.
So can shooting heavier bullets.

For that reason you need to either be certain any ammo you use is loaded to USGI specifications, OR buy an adjustable gas cylinder lock screw.
The adjustable screw allows adjusting to vent excess gas but still allow the rifle to operate correctly.

So, unless you're 100% certain about the powder used in ammo the smart move is to use the GI gas cylinder lock screw for ammo you know is USGI specification ammo, and use an adjustable gas screw for everything else.

Also, tell your buddy that the M1 Rifle REQUIRES grease as the lubricant.
In the M1 a thin coat of oil is used to prevent rust, grease is the lubricant.
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Old October 2, 2013, 06:16 PM   #6
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more than likely it would not. with the plug yes corelokts would be fine but without it stands a chance of bending the oprod.
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Old October 2, 2013, 06:27 PM   #7
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In addition to possibility of bending the op rod, commercial ammo may slam fire.

-TL
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Old October 2, 2013, 06:48 PM   #8
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Quote:
commercial ammo may slam fire.
When loading for the Garand, use CCI no. 34 primers ..... mil-spec sensitivity to prevent slamfires.
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Old October 2, 2013, 07:03 PM   #9
tangolima
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I handload for my garands.

Bullet weight
150gr, loaded to M2 ball specs
165gr, loaded to M1 ball specs

Powder
Varget, N135, IMR4895

Primer
Winchester LR, slam fire
Tula LR NATO, no slam fire

The key is pressure at the gas port. Slow powder with heavy projectile, bad combination.

-TL
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Old October 2, 2013, 07:16 PM   #10
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Unless the ammunition says it is for Garands, it is not.

The M1 Garand was type classified in 1936 with ammunition that is positively mild compared with today's stuff.

I remember the Garand Match in 2001 when the CMP issued Federal ammunition for the first time. They had run out of US GI ball and purchased commercial ammunition from Federal. It was in a special CMP white box.


This stuff slamfired often. I shot in the afternoon and upon the “load” command standing, everyone heard a slamfire. I was surprised by the sang froid attitude of the line judges and line tower. It was if there was nothing special about a rifle discharge on the load command. I found later, from a friend in the morning session, they had so many slamfires that my friend said “they like never got the match going”.

The 2001 ammunition was also loaded to commercial specs. The stuff clocked 2800-2900 fps for a 150 grain bullet. Period LC that I have tested is 2500 to 2600 fps. There were malfunctions all over the place. The shooter on my point, during prone rapid fire, the loaded clip unlatched, jumped out of the magazine and jammed the bolt. The shooter was so disgusted he removed the clip and threw it on the ground.

M1 Garand Douglas Barrel 1:10 twist

150 gr FMJBT 1966 Ball

14 Nov 2011 T= 74 ° F

Ave Vel = 2545
Std Dev = 20
ES = 68
Low = 2513
High = 2581
N = 8


174 FMJBT White Box 1968 NM M72, Headstamp LC67 match, box velocity 2640 fps

14 Nov 2011 T = 74 °F

Ave Vel = 2592
Std Dev = 28
ES = 103
High = 2647
Low = 2544
N = 10




I recommend reloading for Garands. I have provided plenty of advice on this topic on this forum, if you are interested.
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Old October 3, 2013, 08:40 AM   #11
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The comments in this thread illustrate why I am not a fan of the Garand. Pretty useless and as handy as a tree trunk to carry in the woods.
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Old October 3, 2013, 08:56 AM   #12
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Quote:
The comments in this thread illustrate why I am not a fan of the Garand. Pretty useless and as handy as a tree trunk to carry in the woods.
That is unfair to the rifle and ignores why the rifle was created and the environment it was issued. The Garand was first and foremost a service rifle. Soldiers were issued ammunition, ammunition whose operating characteristics were correct for it, and a number of other automatic weapon systems. Soldiers were not expected to roll their own, when these obsolete rifles get onto the market place, reloaders need to understand the limitations to produce safe, reliable ammunition.

With good ammunition the Garand is a reliable rifle and has functioned in severe environments the world over. There are few military rifles that are as reliable as a Garand, and as environment and dirt tolerant. A Korea war veteran, he found I had a Garand, and he just up and said, that no matter how dirty his Garand got, it functioned. The M16/M4, if the thing is not cleaned three times a day, in a combat zone, the Soldier is risking his life because of the high rate of malfunctions.

Because semi automatic weapons require ammunition that operates within tight parameters, for decades the number of semi automatic rifles has been in the minority compared to bolt rifles. Just how many commercial semi auto’s are there? The most successful semi auto sold to US citizens is the AR15, based on a military rifle, the action and operating system refined at the cost of $100’s of millions of dollars by the US Army, and the 223 version is surprisingly tolerant of variations in ammunition. I have heard the 308 version is not.

For sloppy reloaders, for those who neck size, partial neck size, think their ammunition is fine if they can beat the bolt down with their hand, and knock it open with a block of wood, for those who don’t keep their rifles cleaned and maintained, and don’t pay attention to the operating characteristics of the mechanism they are using, semi automatic rifles are not for these people. They will just have problems.

There is a thread somewhere on a SKS rifle slamfiring. The owner did not clean the rifle, did not notice the firing pin jammed forward through the bolt face, and the rifle slamfired. Semi autos are not for such people.
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Old October 3, 2013, 01:55 PM   #13
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Quote:
handy as a tree trunk to carry in the woods.
It gets handier if you work out with tree trunks ......

Folks that complain about 9 lb hunting rifles need to get out of their cubicles and work with their hands on a regular basis ....... the kids that grew up on fried wind and rabbit tracks in the Depression schlepped these guns, a basic load of ammo and a combat pack halfway across the ETO, yet well fed young folks today can't manage a gun that weighs more than 6 pounds and shoots anything heavier than a varmint cartridge .....
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Old October 3, 2013, 03:40 PM   #14
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Another way to shoot hunting style bullets exists. Mex-Match the 150 gr soft point into M2 ball ammo. Pull the 147 FMJ , leave the powder charge as is and seat the soft point. The pressure curve remains the same avoiding any op-rod problems and it's likely that there will be an improvement in accuracy. Typical hunting bullets are usually better quality then the FMJ.
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Old October 6, 2013, 08:42 PM   #15
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Problem is, once you pull those factory FMJ tips you'll need to resize the case again which requires recapping a live primer.
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Old October 7, 2013, 08:17 AM   #16
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Quote:
Problem is, once you pull those factory FMJ tips you'll need to resize the case again which requires recapping a live primer.
Such is not the case. Unless the case mouth is damaged the neck tension remains the same. Collet style bullet pullers have the strength to remove the slug in a straight line. It might only be necessary to chamfer the case mouth.
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Old October 7, 2013, 07:36 PM   #17
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Why would you decap a live primer when replacing a bullet? You just remove the decapping pin from the expander. If you don't need to resize the neck, you can just remove the expander altogether.

Jim
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Old October 7, 2013, 08:01 PM   #18
tahunua001
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I'm afraid I must concur with jim. you do not need to resize your brass after you pull a bullet. I have reloaded a number of demilled military cartridges, none of it required resizing the brass. good thing too, most of what I've done was berdan primed anyway.
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Old October 7, 2013, 09:37 PM   #19
chris in va
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My bad. It was my understanding you'd need to resize the neck after pulling to achieve proper tension and being a semiauto it would need FLR.
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Old October 8, 2013, 06:46 AM   #20
Bart B.
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There's two issues regarding pulling bullets then replacing them with others when using military ammo.

If the original ammo has crimped in bullets, you may want to resize the military case neck after pulling the bullets. That way, the crimp will not score the new bullet making it less accurate. Run the case mouth halfway onto an expander ball and that's usually enough.

If pulling bullets from military match ammo, there's no crimp but the sealant left in the case mouth may not grip the new bullet tight enough; expecially when the new bullet's smaller than the military one. Loading a full clip of such rebulleted ammo in Garands has often resulted in bullets backing out of rounds still in the clip/magazine area of the rifle. So, the case neck may need resized to hold the bullet tight. It's best to clean out the sealant first.
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