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Old October 6, 2013, 03:34 PM   #26
Gaz_in_NZ
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New Zealand is not a cheap place to live if you are a shooter, but you can still own and shoot handguns here.

Most of the shooting related retailers are 99% geared around hunting (which is big business in NZ, everyone and their dog here is tooled up for hunting in some form or other), but target shooters aren't catered for that much.
There are several "endorsements" to your license that you need for certain things.

1) Standard Firearms License :- once you have passed the "Mountain Safety" course (Lecture followed by a simple, common sense 30 question, multi-choice exam) you can go and buy any hunting rifle, any shot gun, any caliber, a pocket full of HP ammo or solid slug and go off into the bush and kill stuff. After seeing the type of people (and their lack of firearms knowledge) who were struggling to "pass" this exam there is no way I'll be putting myself at risk in the bush with these bozos trekking around out there. My 13 year old son passed the "exam" without a problem and he can't get a license 'till he's 16, but he has had firearms safety drummed into him since I started him shooting when he was 6 years old (in the UK).
Also includes PCP air rifles (of which I have 3).

2) "B" category endorsement :- Allows the holder to possess and use handguns. Granted only to bona fide members of pistol clubs. Weapons held under a "B" endorsement may only be fired at an approved pistol range, and are subject to strict controls on carriage away from the owner's home.
You have to jump through a lot of hoops to get this endorsement, I'm still hoop jumping at present.

3) "C" category endorsement :- Allows the holder to possess and use pistols and restricted weapons. Granted only to bona fide collectors, to people for whom a particular weapon has a special significance (e.g. as an heirloom), to museum curators, and to theater, film and TV production armorers. Weapons held under a "C" endorsement may not be fired with live ammunition (ya think???), though blanks may be fired for film, TV and theater purposes.

4) "D" and "F" category endorsement :- Special ones for Firearms dealers.

5) "E" category endorsement :- Allows the holder to possess and use MSSAs (Military-Style Semi-Automatic) or high capacity mags. Granted only to applicants showing a genuine reason for needing to use an MSSA - such as professional hunting, or participation in service-rifle or IPSC 3-gun competitions.

So shooting is alive and well over here even if you have to go through lots of time consuming crap to own and shoot handguns, but any brain-donor can walk about the countryside with a high powered hunting rifle shooting anything that moves.

Ammo is very expensive over here so are guns, decent firearms safes etc etc, which is why I bought this Commercially Reloaded Ammo from the club in the first place.


Cheers
Gaz

Last edited by Gaz_in_NZ; October 6, 2013 at 03:41 PM.
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Old October 6, 2013, 04:13 PM   #27
mikld
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The "Commercial Reloader" is prolly someone at the range that's reloading for the range; ie, "range ammo"?. There is no excuse for missing that many split necks (from not inspecting them, just dumping the brass into a hopper), and someone doing this as a business, wouldn't be in business very long. A "real" commercial/professional reloader would have to exert a lot more effort just to get started legally. If I paid good money for that ammo I would return all the stuff I could and tell everyone I know/shoot with all about it.

The yellow stuff looks like unburned powder. Reloader trying to save money on powder makes loads that are too low for good complete burning/low pressure and a get lot of unburned powder. Also the soot from too light loads not sealing brass/chamber is apparent. Too cheap to provide a decent powder charge?

For me and my guns, I wouldn't buy that ammo, for any reason...
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Old October 6, 2013, 04:20 PM   #28
manta49
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Quote:
5) "E" category endorsement :- Allows the holder to possess and use MSSAs (Military-Style Semi-Automatic) or high capacity mags. Granted only to applicants showing a genuine reason for needing to use an MSSA - such as professional hunting, or participation in service-rifle or IPSC 3-gun competitions.
Sounds worse than this part of the UK. I thought the firearms laws would be a bit more relaxed in New Zealand.
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Old October 6, 2013, 05:22 PM   #29
Paul B.
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Back in the early part of the mid 1970's I had a small commercial reloading business. I have to agree either the reloaded was just plain sloppy or is trying to milk that brass for as many reloads as he can get away with.
The sooty cases and yellow residue are definitely signs of underloaded crtridge. I'm guessing with some confidence that the powder used was one of the ball type, probably W321 or HP38. (Different lots of the same powder.) The large amount of split necks is probably brass loaded too many times with the necks belled a bit too much and possibly too mich crimp. The anaolgy of bending the paper clip being spot on. As the reloader is loading lots of ammo at a time, I'm thiking progressive press wit an automatic case feeder. He wouldnt have a chance to inspect anyhing until he final product and considering the large quantity of procuct, he didn't bother except possibly on a sporadic basis.
I only load two cartidges on a progressive, 9MM and .45 ACP. It's a Dillon 500B and as I have to insert each case into the machine, at least each case get some kind of inspection.
Most of my shooting is .38 Spl. with a 148 gr. wadcutter I cast myself. I use 3.1 gr. of either Bullseye (rarely anymore) or 3.1 gr. of W231. I once bought a couple of boxes of commercial .38 Spl. target loads Federal and Winchester) and to my shock, my loads outshot both brands and the Federal ammo had long longitudinal splits almost the full length of the brass case. My last run was 1,88 rounds on a Rockchucker single stage press. I've got to sit down and cast up more bullets a I'm almost done with the last run.
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Old October 6, 2013, 05:47 PM   #30
Gaz_in_NZ
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Quote:
Sounds worse than this part of the UK. I thought the firearms laws would be a bit more relaxed in New Zealand.
Well at least I can get back to Handgun shooting here, not like in the UK when that smarmy git and traitor Blair used the banning of Handguns as a vote winner on a knee-jerk reaction from an uninformed voter base to get him elected with promises of "no more gun crime in the UK" and there are more illegal guns on the streets of Britain now than there have ever been, but that's OK 'cause they have taken away the "threat" from the licensed handguns that were legally held and legally used by responsible licensed shooters....that all worked out well didn't it.
Please don't get me started on that subject 'cause I'll go on for ever.....
Gun control will never do anything but punish the innocent for the acts of the guilty.


With an "E" cat endorsement I can have an AK47 or Bushmaster M4 if I so desire so it's not all bad.

Cheers
Gaz

Last edited by Gaz_in_NZ; October 6, 2013 at 06:27 PM.
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Old October 7, 2013, 05:15 AM   #31
Salmoneye
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As mentioned...

'Yellow Stuff' is unburnt powder...Some powders need high pressure to burn completely...

Sooty cases are due to light load that is insufficient to seal the case against the chamber...

Both of these issues are due to the light charge used in this .38SPCL target load...

The split cases being reloaded is all the loaders fault...Inattention to detail...
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Old October 9, 2013, 06:40 AM   #32
Bezoar
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well the thing is, range ammo that the range provides for sale is intended to do very few things.

1. not to destroy the target/backstop. they dont want you popping off at that brand new 70,000 dollar bullet trap system with your max pressure loaded 300 grain fmj 44 maggie loads.

2. not to blow up the gun.

3. not to stick the bullet in the barrel or cylinder.

the ammunition you used was a success on that part.
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Old October 9, 2013, 03:22 PM   #33
Gaz_in_NZ
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Quote:
1. not to destroy the target/backstop. they dont want you popping off at that brand new 70,000 dollar bullet trap system with your max pressure loaded 300 grain fmj 44 maggie loads.

2. not to blow up the gun.

3. not to stick the bullet in the barrel or cylinder.

the ammunition you used was a success on that part.
While I do agree with your synopsis my beef is with the quality of the product, low load that causes unburnt powder to drop all over the place especially clogging up behind the ejector star.
Bullets that appear to be not seated to the right depth, reloads put into already split cases and supplied to a club and loads so inconsistently inaccurate so that in the comp I shot on Sunday I even put a hole in the next target with one (and believe me I ain't that bad) the first five sighters were one in the 8, one in the 2 at 12 o'clock, one in the 5 @ 3 o'clock, one in the 6 @ 6 o'clock and one off the bottom of the target @ 6 o'clock. With the same gun (a club gun that really needed a cleaning session spending on it) that I can normally get 5 Factory Fresh sighters off with nothing outside the 8 ring.
One set of 10 had a group of 8 shots (@ the 7 o'clock position) that was 1.5" diameter and 2 fliers in the 2 @ 11 o'clock, the next 10 looked like They had been all shot with SG's from an unchoked, short barreled shotgun, 1's, 4's, the odd 7 and 3 off the target.
It's just the sheer all round crap quality of the ammo that I find hard to swallow, and if it was free then there's nothing really to gripe about but it was $30 for 50, and yesterday I replenished my stock with FMJ CCI's for $35 for 50.
I have sent a complaint in to the club president, with photographs, and I'm awaiting a reply from yesterdays committee meeting as he replied to my original e-mail saying someone else had complained to him with exactly the same problem.

Cheers
Gaz
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Old October 10, 2013, 07:59 AM   #34
Real Gun
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Note that it is difficult to demand higher quality without agreeing to a higher price or finding a competitor. If it were me, I would not buy from this source again. Fortunately, I have been reloading my own.

The Lee Pro 1000 should work fine, but I would start with all new brass or my own once-fired from new ammo (not necessarily redundant, considering what gets passed off as "once-fired").
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Old October 10, 2013, 02:04 PM   #35
Gaz_in_NZ
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Quote:
The Lee Pro 1000 should work fine, but I would start with all new brass or my own once-fired from new ammo (not necessarily redundant, considering what gets passed off as "once-fired").
I have (or will have) 400 once fired (by me from factory bought) Nickel plated cases from my own stock of CCI 38's (it's older ammo but works very well) and I've just started picking up new Starline Brass as and when I can find it @ $39.90 per 100. my local gun shop is waiting for delivery and I bought his last 100 on Wednesday (everything in NZ is geared around hunting and only a few shops carry supplies for the hand-gunner). I say it's my local shop, it's an 80 mile round trip, but there are so many hunting and fishing shops in each small town who don't carry anything but rifle and shotgun stuff, ask for .38Spec and they look at you blank, but will order it for you at a premium price.

On a different subject but still 38Spec related, he (local gun shop dude) had a Rossi stainless steel lever-action in .38/.357 in stock it looked quite short and I think it was the M92 carbine.
I have always had a lusting for lever-action (Winchester Yellow Boy type saddle gun) rifles and this one looks OK.
How do these rate alongside say the Uberti Yellow Boy?
The Rossi is half the price of the Uberti over here.
Any Pro's and Con's for either?

Thanks and Cheers
Gaz

Last edited by Gaz_in_NZ; October 10, 2013 at 02:20 PM.
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Old October 10, 2013, 03:09 PM   #36
Gaz_in_NZ
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Just checked with the Gun Shop and the Rossi is an M92 Trapper, 16" barrel in .357/.38...
I think I'll have to talk very nicely to my wife about this one... If you guys reckon it's a decent rifle.
I think I'll start a new topic with this one as it's a little unfair to run it in the reload section.

Cheers
Gaz

Last edited by Gaz_in_NZ; October 10, 2013 at 03:22 PM.
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