The Firing Line Forums

Go Back   The Firing Line Forums > The Skunkworks > Handloading, Reloading, and Bullet Casting

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old October 2, 2013, 09:37 AM   #1
will99
Member
 
Join Date: June 13, 2009
Location: western Pennsylvania
Posts: 39
P3AT failure to eject

I've made up at least a half dozen loads for my Keltec .380 and have always had good results feeding and ejecting until yesterday. My load is a 100 gr Berry's plated bullet with 2.9 gr Titegroup. This load is hot, maybe too hot. I had numerous fte's. Does this happen more often with hot loads? My thought was that weak loads would be more likely to not eject. Brought the gun home and cleaned it well, removing the extractor and touching up the claw with an emery board. Tried to bend extractor spring slightly to give it more tension. One more thought: my cases had been fired numerous times. Could the claw be gripping a place on the rim that was chewed up? Anyone have this problem with a small autoloader?
will99 is offline  
Old October 2, 2013, 12:13 PM   #2
spacecoast
Senior Member
 
Join Date: October 14, 2009
Location: Sunshine and Keystone States
Posts: 4,114
I have found that my LCP tends to chew up the rim of my .380 brass pretty badly.

2.9 grains of Titegroup is within the upper and lower limits suggested by Hodgdon, so it should be OK and not especially hot. The P3AT and its clone (the LCP) are both fairly tough to hang on to when it comes to recoil.

If you've had good luck with other loads, you might want to stick with them.
spacecoast is offline  
Old October 2, 2013, 02:37 PM   #3
will99
Member
 
Join Date: June 13, 2009
Location: western Pennsylvania
Posts: 39
A 2.9 charge of Titegroup with a 100 gr Berry's plated is pretty hot. Don't have a chart right here but that's what I recall. Usually only practice with light loads and then not too ofter. This pocket gun has to be reliable.
will99 is offline  
Old October 4, 2013, 01:21 PM   #4
will99
Member
 
Join Date: June 13, 2009
Location: western Pennsylvania
Posts: 39
Had a chance to run three more loads through the P3AT, one of which was my SD load: 90gr Hornady FTX over 3.2gr of Titegroup. I had no failures to extract. I have concluded that the 100 gr Berry's was too much for the 2.9 charge of Titegroup since a plated bullet should be treated like a cast bullet and take a lower charge. My pressure was too high causing the case to stick. With the 90gr FTX seated long at about .960 there are no pressure concerns. It also penetrated 3 1/2 inches of lumber at close range. Doubt if it opened though.
will99 is offline  
Old October 4, 2013, 10:23 PM   #5
bt380
Senior Member
 
Join Date: December 14, 2012
Posts: 331
What's the possibility that the Berry's bullet as the problem source for your gun as Berry's diameter .356." Lyman 49th, p338, 340 speak to the new industry standard using .355." Because of chamber restrictions, they don't recommend larger than .355." The assumption is, they mean ie fmj, etc, not lead or plated lead for that .355" number. But if the barrel tolerance for your gun is a bit snug, who knows. Another person might have the same gun that shoots it ok. Just never know w/ lighter caliber auto's. Just punting here for another thought.
-
Here is a string for Berry's (in 9mm), but some of the comments may apply.
http://thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=438485
-
Berrry doesn't have a lot of load data:
http://www.berrysmfg.com/faq-q21-c1-...d_Bullets.aspx
ie: Other than the data from Western and Accurate for the 9mm, .40S&W and Hodgdon .40S&W there is no printed data available.

Last edited by bt380; October 4, 2013 at 10:29 PM.
bt380 is offline  
Old October 5, 2013, 02:48 AM   #6
JustSomeGuy
Member
 
Join Date: October 2, 2013
Location: Oregon
Posts: 49
I think you are correct to assume that with the 100grn bullet, and its longer length as well as the pressure it can induce over a longer period, your gun is not getting the correct recoil impulse to operate correctly. It is a blowback operated pistol and needs to operate in a very limited pressure range in the chamber for that to work. As you have other loads that DO work, I would stick with those and either find a different powder with a different pressure curve to try with the 100grn bullet, or just forget those bullets and go with what works.
__________________
I, Procrastitron will destroy evil.... eventually.
JustSomeGuy is offline  
Old October 5, 2013, 06:03 AM   #7
spacecoast
Senior Member
 
Join Date: October 14, 2009
Location: Sunshine and Keystone States
Posts: 4,114
For some reason both Berry's and Rainier only offer a 100 gr. plated bullet, it would be nice if they offered a 90 or 95 gr. option.

I shoot the plated 100 gr. Berry's through both of my small .380s, but with lighter loads (usually 3 grains of AA#2).
spacecoast is offline  
Old October 12, 2013, 08:13 AM   #8
bkhann
Member
 
Join Date: August 5, 2009
Location: Grand Rapids MI
Posts: 96
I am successfully using the following load through my P3AT:

Barry's 100 gr RNHB
3.8 gr Power Pistol
COL: 0.94:
755.9 fps

We were looking for a load that would mimic some self defense loads that we carry. The above load works flawlessly, but early on, my P3AT was returned to KelTec due to reliability issues, and they worked their magic on it. It seems that many P3AT's do not work well out of the box. Since KelTec fixed mine, it has not missed a beat. Probably the only issue (observation) on the re-worked P3AT is that when brass is ejected, only about 1/2 of it is ever found. I don't know where the shells are being ejected to (Ionosphere?), but they are gone!.

If your P3AT is not reliability eating factory ammo, I would sent it to KelTec and have them go through the gun. I think that this is a more reliable solution than the "fluff and buff" that people have done to their P3AT's.

Best of luck!
bkhann is offline  
Old October 12, 2013, 01:16 PM   #9
LE-28
Senior Member
 
Join Date: September 24, 2012
Location: North Carolina
Posts: 375
Limp wristing will cause your P3AT to not eject reliably also. It certainly does it on my PF9. They are small and hard to hang onto which makes the problem worse. Even if you aren't letting the gun recoil upwards it still does in your hand and takes momentum away from the slide.

2.9 of Titegroup is under Hodgdon's max load by 1 tenth, but over Lyman's max load by 1 tenth for 100 gr bullets. Unless you are trying to load +p loads.

I went to a slower burning powder in my subcompacts and they are a lot more reliable.

bkhann's load is more along the lines of what I'm trying to get at. Universal and Power Pistol work better for me as far as feeding and cycling goes in my sub-compacts. It's hard to keep those little pistols from moving in your hands, my hands are to big for them and I can't hold them still after they fire. Going to the slower powder seems to have helped me a lot.
LE-28 is offline  
Old October 12, 2013, 01:45 PM   #10
clemsonal
Member
 
Join Date: July 18, 2010
Location: South Carolina
Posts: 29
Blow back ?????

Post 6 describes the P3AT as a blow back design. That is incorrect. It is a locked breach pistol.
clemsonal is offline  
Old October 12, 2013, 07:24 PM   #11
bt380
Senior Member
 
Join Date: December 14, 2012
Posts: 331
Hodgdon 2013 Annual Manual p153 and their web site list titegroup 100 gr hdy fmj start of 2.6, max 3.0 col .980. Hornady 9th 100gr fmj rn titegroup start 2.3, max 3.0 col .980. Lymans 49th doesn't list a 100gr 380 round.
Berrys site: http://www.berrysmfg.com/faq-q21-c1-...d_Bullets.aspx
We recommend using hard cast load data or start with mid-range jacketed data. Make sure data is below 1250fps unless you are using a Thick-Plated bullet that we list a higher max velocity for like the 9mm 124gr HBRN-TP that can be shot to 1500fps in open class guns like a .38 Super. Keep in mind that since our plated bullet has the same pressure curve as a hard cast bullet, the published cast data will be very close to what you will get with our plated bullets. If you use Jacketed data with our plated bullets you can get from 5% - 8% increase in velocity using that data.
For further questions you can email sales@berrysmfg.com
bt380 is offline  
Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 11:51 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
This site and contents, including all posts, Copyright © 1998-2014 S.W.A.T. Magazine
Copyright Complaints: Please direct DMCA Takedown Notices to the registered agent: thefiringline.com
Contact Us
Page generated in 0.09078 seconds with 9 queries