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Old October 2, 2013, 01:53 PM   #1
jdmcconnell
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308 bolt gun

I have been wanting to have a 308 bolt action rifle built and was wanting opinions on if it's worth paying the extra money and getting a special made action like surgeon or big horn or is it just a good to have a regular action trued. Thanks for the help
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Old October 2, 2013, 01:54 PM   #2
Doyle
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What and how far do you intend to shoot?
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Old October 2, 2013, 02:08 PM   #3
jdmcconnell
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Ideally 1000 yards but realistically probably around 600-700. Mostly target shooting but also whitetail and anything else like coyotes. I am probably going to go with a 20" barrel.
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Old October 2, 2013, 02:22 PM   #4
allaroundhunter
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A 20" barrel won't reliably get you 1,000 yards. I wouldn't worry about a custom action if you are just getting started in long range shooting. You can be successful at 600-800 yards with an off-the-shelf rifle.
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Old October 2, 2013, 04:06 PM   #5
Doyle
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1000 yd target shooting and deer hunting generally require two totally different rifles. Any rifle that you would really want to use for 1000 yd targets is going to be too heavy to carry around comfortably in the woods.
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Old October 2, 2013, 05:06 PM   #6
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I built mine on a 700 action,Shilen 26 inch barrel and a X-mark triger. I'm shooting golfballs off tee's at 140 yds.
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Old October 2, 2013, 08:31 PM   #7
Bart B.
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.308 Win. chambered barrels screwed into standard Win. 70 actions in well built rifles have been shooting as accurate as high-dollar single-shot benchrest actions since the 1960's. The only modification to the factory Winchester action is squaring up the bolt and receiver faced with the chamber axis and lapping the locking lugs to full contact. The best of both types with the best reloads shoot under 1/2 MOA at 600 and 3/4 MOA at 1000. As long as the action is repeatable in how its parts fit and how it fits the stock from shot to shot, most any action will do that. Besides, the Win. 70 receiver's near 3 times stiffer than the Rem. 700 long one; long actions shoot more accurate than short ones.

I've no idea what your accuracy expectations are, but I doubt any factory off-the-shelf rifle will consistantly shoot under 1.5 MOA (9 inches) at 600 or 2 MOA (20 inches) at 1000 yards. Remington's 40X rifles in .308 Win. from their custom shop may do that when new.

One can load .308 Win ammo with heavy bullets that'll shoot very accurate at long range from a 20 inch barrel. But the cases will only be good for 1 or 2 reloads as the recipie's somewhat over SAAMI max safe pressures.
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Old October 3, 2013, 09:19 AM   #8
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Ammo is a big factor. Is you hand load or can afford to shoot match ammo, then you can ask if it worth to spend extra on a custom super accurate rifle. A lot of money goes into the pride factor when you spend big bucks on custom rifle anyway.
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Old October 3, 2013, 10:25 PM   #9
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This is one of those times where "if you have to ask, you don' need it". At least not yet. I'd suggest a standard sporter weight hunting rifle for now. Not a heavy barreled varmit rifle, or one of the ultra-lights, just a standard 22" barreled hunting rifle in the action you prefer. Use it for casual target shooting and hunting. It will be better than you at the ranges you plan on shooting.

When you get to the point where you want to really get serious about long range shooting, you will know what you want. You could build off the action you have, or buy a separate rifle dedicated for long range shooting.
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Old October 5, 2013, 12:50 AM   #10
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By the time you buy a regular action and all the trick parts, have the action really and truly blueprinted, and then put it all together, you are almost $200 or $300 over the cost of a Surgeon action. For deer hunting or coyote hunting or just casual target work, just get a Remington action, have the lugs and bolt face trued. put a good barrel on it, you have no need of a Surgeon or Bighorn action. But if you want to compete, you gotta run with the big boys, and you will need a good action for that.
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Old October 7, 2013, 05:52 AM   #11
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Generally speaking you can get reliably to 800 yards with a 20" barrel. Even sedate 168 SMK loads are still supersonic at this range.

If you want a very precise 20" barreled 308, buy a new Savage in any flavor of their heavy barrel variants. It will shoot tighter than most people can hold.

Unless you are building a dedicated 1000 yard rifle, I won't bother with the cost of a custom action. Even then, you can buy a Savage F Class or Palma rifle off the shelf and be competitive without the cost of going custom.

So unless you are already an accomplished shot who can tell the difference between a 1/4 MOA rifle/ammo combination and a 3/8 rifle/ammo combination, I'd save the money by buying factory, and then spend that money on more ammo to practice/compete with.

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Old October 7, 2013, 06:01 AM   #12
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I've no idea what your accuracy expectations are, but I doubt any factory off-the-shelf rifle will consistantly shoot under 1.5 MOA (9 inches) at 600 or 2 MOA (20 inches) at 1000 yards. Remington's 40X rifles in .308 Win. from their custom shop may do that when new.

Bart I have to beg to differ on that one. We have a Guy that has been shooting F Class with us now for the last 3 months. He is shooting a Savage Axis 308 stock,other than he cut 1.5 coils off trigger spring. He is consistently shooting under 5 inches with it. I don't think shooting MOA with any rifle is to hard any more these day's. He was at out match on Sat this weekend again. Pulled a 187 out of 200. I also have a 243 stock hunting rifle. Under 9 inches at 600 yards is very easy with it . Now he is the only one I see do this,because all the rest of us have target rifles,but I have to believe if he can most any one can. There are some bad choices out there,but you usually find out first or second time out to range with those ones. Just my 2 cents worth.
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Old October 8, 2013, 07:42 AM   #13
Bart B.
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Quote:
He is consistently shooting under 5 inches with it. I don't think shooting MOA with any rifle is to hard any more these day's. He was at out match on Sat this weekend again. Pulled a 187 out of 200.
Doesn't a 187 score mean some shots went more than 3 inches away from target center into the 9 ring? Did he shoot any 8's at least 6 inches out from target center? Or was the 20-shot group for score very small but way off target center?

If Savages shoot under 5" at 600 consistantly, that's remarkable.
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Old October 8, 2013, 01:19 PM   #14
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Bart- I guess I am not sure I was not scoring for him,but to get a 187 you have to pretty much be in the 9's and 10 always. As for Savages shooting under5 inches at 600 yards, Yes. I have 9 Savages now. I have only shot 3 of them at 600 yards. 6BR,308 FVSS, And my 243 Axis. All shoot under 9 Inches (I believe is what you stated.) The 308 and the 6Br will shoot under 5 inches with ease. Last Match on Saturday I scored a 196. 20 shots 6BR 18 in 10 ring and of those 18--12 of them in the X-Ring. Your original quote was 9 Inches. Any rifle you buy better do 9 inches at 600 yards or be taking it back. 600 yards is not that far for 9 inch groups. With all your back ground you should know that. I would be very intrested in going shooting with you once Bart. There are about 10 of us out at Casselton Rifle Range that have no issues hitting Golf balls at 300 yards. Why does this seem to be so strange to you?. The other guys out there are doing it with Tika's and Remmy,s and old Winchesters. Heck we have one guy (78 yrs old) shooting those old Military open sights out there. He can hold 3 inch groups at 200 yards with it. He shoots in the Old Timers shoot out with it all the time. In short I guess, If I had a Rifle that did not shoot better than 9 Inches at 600 yards, It would be in the Garbage or for sale.

As for Golf Balls- I live on a golf course-Fairway one out backdoor and tee box 2 out front. I get lots of golf balls
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Old October 8, 2013, 04:34 PM   #15
Bart B.
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If one hits golf balls with every shot at 300 or never shoots over 5 inches at 600 with anything, that's fine by me. I'll applaude every instance.

You can shoot a 187 out of 200 with one 7, three 8's and four 9's with the rest 10's or better.
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Old October 8, 2013, 05:07 PM   #16
4runnerman
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You can shoot a 187 out of 200 with one 7, three 8's and four 9's with the rest 10's or better

I am new to this Bart-But 10 is the best you can get. There is no 11.
The 10 ring and the X ring both count as 10. Winner (if Tie) is determend by who got most x rings

Example- I scored 196-12. Score of 196 with 12 in X ring
18 in 10 ring for 180 ( 12 in X ring ) still 10 points
1 in 9 for 189
1 in 7 ( I knew it right when I pulled trigger) for 7. For a total of 196. Now this Is a NRA Sanctioned Match. This is how they do it here any how.

Don't hit them every shot ,but at least 7 out of 10 for sure. Golf Balls are a very big target.

Oh and By the Way--Thanks-I took your Advise on adding 1/10 grain more powder for the cold temps we were going to be shooting in.
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Old October 8, 2013, 07:58 PM   #17
Bart B.
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I was counting the Xes in with the 10's only because they're worth more with ties.

Hitting a golf ball every time at 300 requires almost a 2 in. (2/3 MOA) maximum group with 30 caliber bullets. Such accuracy at 300 opens to at least 9/10ths MOA at 600. As you missed the ball by some unknown amount, it's far to say maybe at least half again as much as the ball itself is; maybe an inch or more. And 50% more than 9/10ths MOA at 600 is about 1-1/3 MOA.

But 7 out of 10 on golf balls is pretty darned good shooting off the shoulder even with a rest under the stock's fore end.
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Old October 9, 2013, 03:00 AM   #18
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Bart B.,

Just a reminder, F Class targets have much smaller rings than High Power or Palma targets.

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Old October 9, 2013, 06:48 AM   #19
Bart B.
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Jimro, I know they're half the size of standard high power targets. The X through 8 rings are 3, 6, 12, and 18 inches respectively.

I judge accuracy by where all fired shots go, not just those closest to the point of aim. Not a popular way by all means, but it's 100% correct.
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Old October 9, 2013, 09:31 PM   #20
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Rem 700 LTR seems to fit your bill.
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Old October 18, 2013, 01:17 PM   #21
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Quote:
jmr40 said: This is one of those times where "if you have to ask, you don' need it"
I agree. Having said that, look at the Savage 10 FCP-K, for around $800 it'll get you to a 1,000 yards. Just make sure you start with a 20MOA picatinny rail.
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Old October 18, 2013, 01:41 PM   #22
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Re: 308 bolt gun

Quote:
Originally Posted by Eppie View Post
I agree. Having said that, look at the Savage 10 FCP-K, for around $800 it'll get you to a 1,000 yards. Just make sure you start with a 20MOA picatinny rail.
I have that rifle and can confirm it is a shooter. It's given me a few .5moa groups at 100 and 200yards. Plenty of groups submoa but plenty over too. Though I have to say the over moa is 100% on me.

Which I would say goes for the 600yard shots too. shooting a golf ball is as much in the shooter (imo) as the rifle.
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Old October 21, 2013, 11:25 AM   #23
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Savage LRP could fit the bill. Mine easily splits flower stalks at 100m with the 6.5 Creedmoor. I chose something besides .308 though. I like the 6.5 Creedmoor, and if you look at scoring results, unless it's a military caliber shoot, you won't see a 7.62 on there. 6mm, 6.5 and 7mm all day long. Savage makes the 12- F class rifle pretty much already set up... 2 1/4 groups at 400 yards with a 6.5x284.

I wouldn't say ammo selection is a limiting factor (but I reload) I can find 6.5 creedmoor here, but .308 anything goes really fast.

http://www.gunblast.com/Savage-12F.htm

I tried to dig up the score results that had the actions, barrels, stocks and calibers of the shooters and what they placed, but I couldn't dig it up again.

I'm not trying to knock a .308, I know it can be done and has been done...yada yada... I'm just saying there are some alternative/better choices out there.
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