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Old October 3, 2013, 12:03 AM   #26
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Stating the obvious, the 7mm Rem Mag recoils like a .30-06 and requires a long action. The 7mm-08 has a well earned reputation for accuracy and why it was legitimized in the first place. Sometimes accuracy comes at lower velocity, but there are a few new powders that add greater performance than the typical factory loads with a 140 at 2800 FPS, if you're lucky. So, building a load that achieves the highest velocity possible and still provides good accuracy is not some kind of voodo. For the OP's requirements, I would want as much energy as possible so long as the powder is capable. Since he already has 2000-MP, I'll mention a few more: IMR 4007, RE-17 and Ramshot Hunter is definitely worth considering, but for 140's and 145's that are not listed in their data, their ballistician will provide loads for 140 & 145's. If it were me, I'd be giving that 2000-MP some serious testing. And don't forget about the powders that are pretty much considered the standard for 7mm-08, W760/H414. Same powder, different labels.
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Old October 3, 2013, 03:38 AM   #27
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I just got through working up a new load for my Mod 700 7mm08. After about 2K rounds through it, the barrel was no longer giving me the groups I wanted. I ended up with 46gr IMR 4350, Nosler 140 gr Ballistic Tip, WLR, Rem brass, loaded to a COL of 2.81. It shot a 7/16" group at 100 yards. I have not shot it over the chronograph, so I do not know the actual velocity. Advertised at 2850 or so. No pressure signs at all. The best I could get, before this, was 43 gr of IMR 4064, 140 gr Core Lokt, CCI Bench rest Primer, Winchester brass, , col of 2.82. This load shot a 7/8" group at 100 yards. Prior to all this, this rifle shot 1/2" groups with 42.5 gr IMR 4064, WLR, and 140 Game Kings. Unless you have a Remington Mod 700 with a 24" barrel, these loads may not work for you.
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Old October 3, 2013, 09:21 AM   #28
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Here's a Range report: I didn't get the velocity I was hoping for with the 145s. With 2000-mr I was barely getting in the 2700fps area with max loads. I didn't get great groups with it either, except with H4350 (but a very slow load). Most all of these loads were at lands or very close to them. I didn't play with seating depth much due to my limited time. I wonder if the long bearing surface is a part of it, and/or new barrel(about 150 total)?

The 139 btsp did best in my limited testing. It shot about 2750 with 2000-mr and decent accuracy. It shot better with varget, getting about 2820 and roughly 1" groups. Good enough for hunting this fall. This will be my round for now and I'll play more during the winter.

I did run one load of H4350 under a 162gr Hornady btsp. It was slow (read 2450) but very accurate. Problem is at that speed the retained energy is poor, and the 139 is a better choice. I also ran a load of H414 under some old speer hot cor 160s that were given to me. This was about 2700 fps and quite accurate as well. Problem is I don't have many of very many of these, or H414 and the powder is temp sensitive. I will have to play more with the 160 class as they seem to have potential.
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Old October 3, 2013, 11:03 AM   #29
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Define accuracy. What does it mean to you? Group size, or the ability to hit a precise spot on any target?

Most of us strive for tiny groups, not necessarily exactly on the aiming point. Whether it be a black bullseye, or some sort of florescent dot. I actually WANT the bullets hitting alongside of the dot/aiming point so it's easier to measure them.

Others want those groups exactly ON the aiming point for scoring in a match. It does NOT matter how fast the bullets were moving, just that they all hit inside the ten ring or the X ten.

The third group wants the bullets to be hitting high off the bullseye or dot, so that at longer range the bullet will drop into a precise spot for a kill shot. Now the hunters want the most velocity the rifle/cartridge is capable of. Why? Because the faster it leaves the muzzle, the flatter it will shoot, AND the better it will buck the wind,(less deviation caused by winds from the side).

Tiny groups at midrange powder charges are nice to carry into the clubhouse to brag over along with a few barley pops, maybe some shine. Yes they would kill just fine at close ranges on those hard-to-find-perfect hunting days. Provided there's enough velocity to open the bullet allowing it to expand to provide the shock/wound cavity it needs to quickly kill.

Running any cartridge to it's full potential,(yes that means max velocity), is the main reason we handload. Well, it's the main reason why I handload.

Some fear striving for velocity, most because they lack the experience, don't have a chronograph, or are just pain old chickens. Reading pressure by what the fired brass looks like is another trick to loading to max.

When I bought my Browning A-bolt 300 WSM, it was the first rifle of it's kind to get to my area. Loading data was non-existent. Brass was only obtainable by buying loaded rounds which were also hard to find. Redding had some dies out, so I could at least use those.

The ammo I found was 180 grain power point Winchester, and some 165 black coated ballistic tips, also Winchester. I fired those over my chrono to see if their velocity claims were true, yep, the 180's did the trick of 3K. BUT half those cases were not reloadable, they were so hot, the primer pocket would not hold a primer! In fact the headstamp was nearly unreadable.

Winchester came out with some data soon after that, they called for using WW-760. I tried some, it was way too fast of a burn rate to get close to 3,000 fps with a 180,(180 Hornady spire points.) I tried other powders, H4831, IMR-7828 H-870. All could get to 3K without running into pressure,( no hard bolt lift, primer pockets were still snug after multiple reloads.) This was 2005, so the slower winchester powders weren't out yet. I'm sure WW-760 was what they were loading their factory ammo with.

All that to say, why would I accept any load for the 300-WSM that was like shooting a 30-06? My current load is with the Hornady GMX 165 grainer. I'd have to go look, but IIRC it's running just under 3300 fps.
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Old October 3, 2013, 11:11 AM   #30
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Snuffy, for me accuracy is defined by group size. In my 1911, 9mm a 3" group at 25 is fine. A 3" group for my hunting rifles is not. Getting the roughtly 1" group in my 7mm-08 is hunting acceptable to me. I'd like better, but it's fine for now. My 22-250 will shoot cloverleaf groups to a 3/4" group all day (that mostly depends on the nut behind the trigger). I'd like to get this new 7-08 to shoot like that, but for now we're going to hunt with it.
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Old October 3, 2013, 11:14 AM   #31
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Well said, Snuffy.

I own a 7-08 because I want a 7-08, not a .30-30 that shoots 7mm bullets.

There's no reason that a gun can't be fast AND accurate.

There's no difference to the deer between a 1/2" group and a 1" group or even a 2" group at most distances. There's also no difference between 2,700 and 2,900 fps for most shots, which are certainly under 200 yards and often under 50 for an awful lot of hunters.

I've never understood the quest for the absolute max of either speed or accuracy. Yes, I like light, fast bullets and I like to load them near max speed. Yes, I like to shoot tiny groups. Neither is a necessity and there's no point in disparaging someone who prefers the opposite.
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Old October 3, 2013, 11:26 AM   #32
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Good points, Brian. I agree, deer don't know the difference. This logic is part of why I shoot a 7mm-08 and 270win instead of a 7mag, etc.

I'd add that I'm hunting mule deer and my hunting group hasn't had a shot under 100 that I can think of with the exception of the first deer ever shot by a 12 year old (it was a young, dumb doe). Most shots we have are 150-300. One in the group got his mule deer at 460 last year (but this was with ideal conditions. We won't try them much beyond 400 usually as too many variables start to really play into the shot). It's a little different than the common hunting scenario of white tail deer in the woods of the NW from what I understand.
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Old October 3, 2013, 11:52 AM   #33
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Old October 7, 2013, 12:39 PM   #34
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Well...I got it honed in. This is the best group I got Saturday:

https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B_uv...=sharing&pli=1

Last edited by ntg; October 7, 2013 at 02:11 PM.
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Old October 7, 2013, 01:29 PM   #35
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Oh my goodness a discussion about 7mm-08 accuracy and NOBODY has mentioned H380?! Across the board the most accurate powder in mine, just as the fine folks at Lymann said it would. H4350, RL19, H414.....etc were all a let down in mine, the only other powder that shot great was Ramshot's Big Game a max charge of 47.5gr shoots remarkably good with 140gr.
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Old October 7, 2013, 02:13 PM   #36
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Sounds like one I need to try...but I'm more interested in the Big Game load as I know 380 is temp sensitive. Whats your velocity with that Big Game load and how were the groups.
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Old October 7, 2013, 03:15 PM   #37
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ntg, Big Game gave NOSLER their best accuracy with 140 gr. bullets: http://www.nosler.com/7mm-08-remington It's similar in burn rate to H-380 but should have better temperature stability.
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Old October 7, 2013, 03:31 PM   #38
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Quickload estimates aprox 2800fps in my 22" tube. I think I am a hair over that but have not chronoed. A very stout load for a 7mm-08 kicks like a 308 but the accuracy is consistently .75" in my normally very inaccurate Browning. My 140gr Sierra Game Kings should be a show stopper at that speed but I have yet to get the chance to test them out on game.
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Old October 7, 2013, 03:31 PM   #39
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Big Game is on my list, but I won't be able to buy and try it until after the hunts.
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Old October 7, 2013, 03:36 PM   #40
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Don't let temperature stability bug you H380 is some good stuff. 120gr Pro Hunters shot into one ragged hole with it, 150gr Ballistic Tips went sub MOA first try, and even hefty 160gr Deep Curls/SGKs scored impressive accuracy with every group. That is impressive from the same powder, considering that every other powder was doing good to hold 3" with anything!
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Old October 7, 2013, 04:02 PM   #41
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Kachok, That's about what this load was doing for me. I'm using a max Varget load under the hornady 139btsp, getting about 2820fps and .75 to .5" every group.
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Old October 7, 2013, 07:14 PM   #42
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Never tried Varget in mine, I had a scary pressure spikes in my 308 using it that locked up my bolt 2.5gr under max load. So I approach that stuff with caution.
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Old October 8, 2013, 04:25 PM   #43
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Humm...I've used varget in my 22-250 for some time now and never had one issue. I'll have to look into that more.
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Old October 8, 2013, 08:23 PM   #44
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I use Varget in several different cartridges. Never had any problem with it. It is probably the most versatile powders made.
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Old October 8, 2013, 10:50 PM   #45
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Reynolds,

I only use Varget in my 22-250, but never heard of issues from others that I know who use it. Worth looking into, however. I'm not saying it didn't happen, Kachok...hopefully it was a fluke.
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Old October 9, 2013, 12:56 AM   #46
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Maybe I just got a bad batch of Varget but in my years of reloading I never had another powder spike like that, or show major pressure signs that far below published max load, and yes I triple checked everything. The good side is that it is still the most accurate powder in my 308 with 150gr, mind you at a reduced 44.5gr charge but still fast enough to make a decent hunting load with super soft 150gr Speer BTSP.
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Old October 9, 2013, 07:35 AM   #47
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I shoot this load in my Sako 75 7mm08 and both of my Remington 700 Varmint 7mm08's. 45.5grn of H4350, 150grn Nosler Ballistic Tip over a Win LR primer. All guns shoot the load at sub MOA with the 700's both shooting it under 1/2". It runs 2700fps MV. I've killed 100+ critters with the load, the farthest one has traveled has been about 25ft, most are DRT. I could find a faster powder or go to a lighter bullet to gain velocity but why. The load hits like a brick wall and it's so accurate, I can pick and pretty much call my shots.
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Old October 9, 2013, 08:35 AM   #48
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^ +1 on the accuracy of that load, I have shot the exact same bullet/charge/powder in mine and it came in just over .8", I have not used it on game yet but I have no doubt about Ballistic Tips hitting hard. H380 really worked across the board, have not tried a 175gr yet but I would bet you that same powder would give satisfactory results.
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Old October 9, 2013, 09:21 AM   #49
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I plan to play with it more after the hunt, but I'm pleased with the load I showed above. I'd like to get some BigGame to try in it as I hear so many good things about it.

I'd love to see the 2950 fps that Hornady is running 140 class bullets in their superformance factory load, but doubt it will happen, unless they start selling the mystical superformance powder they use in that load.
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Old October 9, 2013, 10:26 AM   #50
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Well truth be told you CAN get 2950fps out of a 7mm-08 you just need a 26" tube, that 47.5gr of Big Game load I use is listed at 2953fps but in a long barrel. Cut that down to 22" and you figure 30fps per inch and I am probably pushing around 2833fps. Unless you are shooting some really impressive range you really don't NEED 3000 fps speeds out of a 140gr 7mm but if you do it is a whole lot easier and safer to push it out of a 280 or 7mm Rem Mag.
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