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Old September 21, 2013, 08:16 PM   #1
Ultra12
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How important is double striking capability in a gun?

I am seriously considering Beretta px4 storm 9m with constant action trigger. There are few attributes to this gun such as lack of safety , constant action ( lighter doa) twisting barrel. But unlike other doa guns it cannot double strike a roundnbIf the gun didn't go bang on the first try a regular doa you can strike the same round again by squeezing a trigger. With constant action because its half cocked if it doesn't go bang you have to rack the slide. Similar to Sao like a 1911. How important is being sble to doyble strike a round in a hand gun to you?
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Old September 21, 2013, 08:32 PM   #2
Nick_C_S
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I have a 1911, and a Beretta that I can double-strike; as well as others that I can't.

But. . .

Regardless of which semi-auto I have in my hand, if I go "click," and it doesn't go "bang," I'm racking the slide.
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Old September 21, 2013, 08:38 PM   #3
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Agree. If I hear click it's time to tap, rack, bang. No reason to think a bad primer will go off if hit again.
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Old September 21, 2013, 08:44 PM   #4
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Quote:
Regardless of which semi-auto I have in my hand, if I go "click," and it doesn't go "bang," I'm racking the slide.
X2, or X3 should I say.

If you have ever had a round fail to chamber, you would not want to guess in a bad situation if there is one in the chamber.

That's why I hate the "double strike" selling point, it's dangerous and if someone who doesn't know any better decides to keep pulling the trigger, bad things can happen.
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Old September 21, 2013, 08:55 PM   #5
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X4
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Old September 21, 2013, 08:59 PM   #6
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The odds of a 2nd strike actually working when the 1st didn't are well under 50%. With those odds I'm not wasting time trying. Not a concern at all for me.
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Old September 21, 2013, 09:22 PM   #7
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In 35 years of shooting handguns the only incidents I've had in hearing "Click" instead of "Boom" with a factory load was the result of high seated primers. The first strike that didn't set the primer off, did seat the primer to its correct depth. In every occurence the second strike fired the round. There are many schools of thought on this issue, but mine is that a second strike is much faster than executing a TRB. If the round fails to go off on a second strike, you've lost very little time anyway and could go ahead with the TRB, but I've never had a failure that wasn't related to a high seated primer where the second strike fired the round.

Things are a bit different today and my former tactical philosophy on this issue has changed for several reasons. One being that I've been handloading for about 28 years and I rarely shoot factory ammo and my defense handloads get meticulous attention including loading them on a single stage REDDING press and dies. But, even with factory ammo, it's just not likely these days that you'll encounter a high seated primer with premium defense ammo and I'll give you a good example. Either in 2002 or 2003, SPEER had a recall on their 124 gr. +P Gold Dot load in 9mm. Later, they repackaged the ammo and resold it as "Practice Only/Not for Law Enforcement Use" and as it turns out, it was due to 1 primer in about 50,000 failing to ignite. I took the oppurtunity to buy some of that ammo and carried it with confidence since I carried a DA/SA pistol. But if SPEER and the other premium defense ammomakers issue a recall because of an incident that might occur once in 50,000 rounds, I'd say QC is pretty tight and probably even tighter today.

Earlier this year, Ruger replaced a P-89 I owned and used as a handload test platform by selling me an SR9 at a very low price. I didn't think I would go back to a striker fired pistol and mainly used my XDm .45 for the range and at home. I thought I'd just use the SR9 as a handload tester as well until the trigger just kept getting better and reliability was perfect. I sold the XDm and bought an SR45 in April and I'm just as pleased and really enjoy shooting .45 loads up to +P level. I haven't had the slightest hint of any striker incident and combined with the fact that my handloaded defense loads get special attention, I'm just not as concerned about not having second strike capability. Once you do get the Beretta, put several hundred rounds through it to break it in. Hopefully, you won't have any striker issues and at that point can call it good. Then in practice, make the TRB drill part of your shooting regimine for just in case. I can't seak for the Beretta, but I have complete confidence with both of my Ruger SRs.
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Old September 21, 2013, 09:32 PM   #8
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Quote:
In 35 years of shooting handguns the only incidents I've had in hearing "Click" instead of "Boom" with a factory load was the result of high seated primers.
As a counterpoint to 57K's experience, every "click" I can recall from shooting centerfire factory ammunition has been the result of a failure to feed a cartridge, or failure to fully chamber and a second strike had no effect.

In fact, I can't remember a single instance where a factory centerfire round that didn't go off the first time could be persuaded to fire with a second hammer strike. I'm sure it happens, but I guess I've been unlucky in that respect.

Anyway, although my experience differs from his, my conclusion is the same--I'm not particularly concerned about not having second strike capability.
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Old September 21, 2013, 11:39 PM   #9
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John, I didn't mean to insinuate that I've never had similar issues; I just didn't include them because the trigger would be irrelevent until such a stoppage was cleared. I just wouldn't carry a pistol that wasn't 100% reliable and second strike capability just isn't the issue for me that it once was.
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Old September 21, 2013, 11:49 PM   #10
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Tap, rack, bang. Regardless of the weapons capabilities. That's an international language of all semi-auto handguns.
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Old September 22, 2013, 12:06 AM   #11
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Amazingly, I have never had a misfire of any kind - ever. Be it factory, or my personal loads, every primer hit has resulted in a "bang" for me. Just lucky, I guess. There may be a day, who knows.

I'm doing a TRB simply because I don't want to take the time to second-guess the situation. Fall back on training, as it were.

Last time I was at an IDPA event, a mis-fire happened with a lady shooter. She did the TRB method superbly! I was impressed. And well, . . . it was kinda hot - there I said it
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Old September 22, 2013, 02:58 AM   #12
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It depends on the ammo, not the gun.

If you are going to always use new, recently bought ammo, then, i agree, it is irrelevant.

If you put yourself in a situation where you have to use old, stale ammo for self defense (because you don´t have anything else, ), then i prefer a DA.

Whatever your training, in a high stress situation, you will pull the trigger again.
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Old September 22, 2013, 05:57 AM   #13
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I think restrike capability is poor substitute to good tactics.
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Old September 22, 2013, 09:12 AM   #14
Polinese
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Not important at all to me as I was taught to Tap Rack as soon as I don't get a bang.
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Old September 22, 2013, 01:37 PM   #15
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A second strike may be of use in certain guns, especially the smaller pocket guns that are not conducive to any quick drill. The other occasion a double strike may be of value is when you are unable to use your other hand for what ever reason. Better to have it than not, IMHO, whether it's ever used or not.
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Old September 22, 2013, 02:29 PM   #16
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How important is double striking capability in a gun?

Tap, rack, ready. Not a big enough advantage for me to make the sacrifices it takes to get the ability to double strike.
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Old September 22, 2013, 02:39 PM   #17
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I'm with the Tap,Rack,Bang crowd. I theorize that the second strike "capability" was originally a marketing afterthought on a SA/DA pistol.
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Old September 22, 2013, 02:41 PM   #18
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Okay, I'll go ahead a look uninformed by asking for clarification on TRB. I've owned handguns for 22 years now and cleared quite a few stoppages in semiauto pistols... And I learned SPORTS for the M-16 in the army, in which "tap" refers to hitting the forward assist. The "S" stands for "slap", as in slap the bottom of the magazine to ensure it is properly seated. Does "tap" in the TRB context refer to tapping the bottom of the magazine?
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Old September 22, 2013, 02:54 PM   #19
DasGuy
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^ Yes

1.) Tap the magazine to make sure it's fully seated
2.) Rack the slide to eject / chamber new round
3.) Bang, pretty self explanatory

"2nd strike" capability is of no use to me.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BfyULpEhmug

Here's a good video from Clint Smith about malfunction clearing a handgun.
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Old September 22, 2013, 03:34 PM   #20
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striker pistols sometimes do not ignite the primer, at least in practice ammo... I have seen it work on second strike.... also for this reason, I have migrated back to hammers....

As mentioned above... I bet an average joe pulls the trigger again
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Old September 22, 2013, 04:07 PM   #21
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I had one that had such capability. Out of all of my reloads that didnt go bang the first try i think i only had one that did on the second. Pretty bad odds in a situation if you ask me. I dont think its worth it.
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Old September 22, 2013, 05:23 PM   #22
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Sometimes primers are bad!!!! Or they get bad, wet, oil, etc. Most of the time, at least my experience has been that the auto had weak spring due to years of use. On my HP I experience this and cocked hammer (again) and it went off. Put Wolf spring into her. I have been shooting or hunting for over 50 years and reloading since about 78. I may have experienced half dozen defective primers. 3 or 4 of them were in NEW Rem 30-06 ammo but it was an old firing spring that needed replacing. I had a couple of 12 guage shells that ddn't go boom, but they had been exposed to numeroswet days. If you feel concerned, paint fingernail polish on primers. Red is good golor and it marks your brass at range, if someone elese tries to pick up your brass. It worked will on my 44 mag bang stick when I used to scuba dive. But even then, I through the exposed shells away after each season. Just to be safe.
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Old September 23, 2013, 07:06 AM   #23
Mike Irwin
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For me, not important at all. If it doesn't fire first pull of the trigger, it's out of the gun in favor of the next round in the magazine.
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Old September 23, 2013, 09:08 PM   #24
peacefulgary
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I agree with most of the others who have posted here...

I just don't have any use for a 2nd strike capability.
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Old September 23, 2013, 10:11 PM   #25
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I don't think of it as one or the other. I train for TRB, and I would plan to TRB in a real life situation. It is the better choice, more or less indisputably. However, to me, second strike isn't about choosing not to TRB. It's about in the stress of a real life situation, things don't always go as planned. You may forget your training and just squeeze the trigger as fast as you can. You may be injured and have trouble racking the slide. You may have to hand the gun to someone else who has no idea how to run it.

In all of these situations, a gun with second strike capability is superior. It is not a significant differentiator, and I wouldn't make a buy/not buy (or carry/not carry) decision based on it, but it is worth something.

My carry gun of choice is an HK with their LEM system. It is similar to the Berettas action, except it does have a second strike. It is a very heavy second strike (like 15-18lbs), as the gun is not designed to be fired without being cocked. But its there, and I prefer that, even though I will likely never use it.
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