The Firing Line Forums

Go Back   The Firing Line Forums > The Hide > The Art of the Rifle: Bolt, Lever, and Pump Action

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old September 20, 2013, 03:37 PM   #1
Shriner81
Junior Member
 
Join Date: September 19, 2013
Posts: 14
Budget long range setup results

New to this site, just looking to see what kind of long range setup you guys are running. I just currently got into long range, purchased a savage model 10 FCP-K chambered in .308. Topped in with a SWFA SS 16X42 scope in some cheap UTG rings which have impressed me beyond measure. First time out to a thousand yards I shot a 6 inch 4 shot group off of a bipod with a rolled up jacket for rear support. Total setup cost me just under 1200 dollars which I would say isn't a high price to pay for repeatable 1000 yard accuracy. What kind of rig and results are you guys getting?
Shriner81 is offline  
Old September 20, 2013, 03:46 PM   #2
allaroundhunter
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 6, 2012
Location: Southeast Texas
Posts: 1,668
What type of ammo are you using?

I have a Remington 700 SPS Varmint in .308 that I have swapped the stock on with a Millett scope. I have only taken it to 1,050 yards once. It works well, and I'm sure it would shoot better now than it did then (3 shots into about 12"). Total cost of the gun, stock, base, rings, and scope is about $1400.

allaroundhunter is offline  
Old September 20, 2013, 06:41 PM   #3
Shriner81
Junior Member
 
Join Date: September 19, 2013
Posts: 14
I reload my own ammo. Just regular old federal brass. Believe it or not I use the lee classic loader, using a rubber mallet. I weigh and measure each load individually. Currently using 40.5 grains of imr4895 with a 168 gr smk. I'm at 4 thousand feet elevation and it's able to reach a thousand yards while staying super sonic. I haven't had it chronographed but through drop charts I'm guessing it's doing about 2625 fps. I'm amazed with the accuracy I've been getting using the lee loader.
Shriner81 is offline  
Old September 21, 2013, 09:47 PM   #4
Nomadicone
Senior Member
 
Join Date: January 31, 2008
Location: Arizona
Posts: 214
I like the 6.5x284 if you are going custom barrel/chambering and relaoding.
__________________
Outdoor Equipment Outfitter for your outdoor equipment needs www.outdoorequipmentoutfitter.org
Nomadicone is offline  
Old September 22, 2013, 12:35 AM   #5
Clark
Senior Member
 
Join Date: December 4, 1999
Location: WA, the ever blue state
Posts: 2,583
I build about 3 rifles a year for myself and buy more rifles.

The longest useful range I can get to is 500 yards. That is with a 7mmRemMag. I have built 4 of them and bought more.

My problem is reading wind. I can measure the wind where I am, but have not got good at estimating and compensating at long range.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg VZ24 7mmRM.jpg (186.9 KB, 59 views)
__________________
The word 'forum" does not mean "not criticizing books."
"Ad hominem fallacy" is not the same as point by point criticism of books. If you bought the book, and believe it all, it may FEEL like an ad hominem attack, but you might strive to accept other points of view may exist.
Are we a nation of competing ideas, or a nation of forced conformity of thought?
Clark is offline  
Old September 22, 2013, 12:56 AM   #6
Shriner81
Junior Member
 
Join Date: September 19, 2013
Posts: 14
My local range is really tough to read wind, and the firing line the wind can be howling, then at a thousand it'll be howling but everywhere in between isn't even a breeze. I've managed to deal with it so far. I'm gonna hunt elk this October and am hoping for 5 or 7 hundred yard shot to really test my abilities as a marksmen. Worried about the kinetic energy of the .308 at those distances though.
Shriner81 is offline  
Old September 22, 2013, 05:42 AM   #7
Mobuck
Senior Member
 
Join Date: February 2, 2010
Posts: 1,967
"am hoping for 5 or 7 hundred yard shot to really test my abilities as a marksmen. Worried about the kinetic energy of the .308 at those distances though"
I gotta say this is WRONG. Shooting at a game animal (especially an elk that can run a LONG way with a marginal hit) to "test your marksmanship" is counter to any and all ethics of a hunter.
Shooting at long range is less about equipment and more about doping the wind and other environmental factors. Range finders eliminate the guessing and a ballistic chart gives you the required elevation but nothing besides vegetation/dust/snow in the field (ranges have flags at various distances to give you an idea of wind shifts) gives the shooter any reference to allow for windage.
I've shot at long range at targets, game, and "other animate objects" and was good at it 40 years ago. I can still make it happen on occasion but the wind is still my nemesis.
Mobuck is offline  
Old September 22, 2013, 09:23 AM   #8
Shriner81
Junior Member
 
Join Date: September 19, 2013
Posts: 14
I understand ethical hunting. I was full draw during archery season on the biggest buck I've ever seen and didn't shoot cause he never gave me a good shot. Sure I kick myself about it but I did the right thing and I'm glad I did. I won't be slinging random rounds at those distances. I've put hundreds of rounds down range practicing for it. If I don't feel right about it ill surely stalk closer to a more appropriate distance.
Shriner81 is offline  
Old September 22, 2013, 11:39 AM   #9
tobnpr
Senior Member
 
Join Date: August 1, 2010
Location: Tampa Bay
Posts: 2,761
Four into six at 1000 is certainly nice shooting by most anyone's standard.

No question Savage provides among the best (IMO, THE best) out-of-the box accuracy, and the FCP-K is well regarded for exactly this among LR shooters preferring the .308.

My younger son and I both shoot Savages, and my older son likes his 700.

Team Savage helped the US win the F-Class World Championship a few years back with bone-stock Savages. 'Nuff said.

Most anyone here will agree that it's more the shooter than the rifle at 1000, and there are many rifles (including factory ones) that shoot sub-minute and can get the job done. It's then up to the ammo, and the shooter to deliver.
__________________
Custom Gunstocks for the Mosin-Nagant and Stock Duplication
www.biggorillagunworks.com
tobnpr is offline  
Old September 22, 2013, 11:55 AM   #10
Shriner81
Junior Member
 
Join Date: September 19, 2013
Posts: 14
Yeah I'm very impressed with the savage rifle. The next addition to mine will be the XLR industries chassis. Or a better reloading setup. The lee classic loader is slow and doesn't allow much adjustment. However it's managed to produce some accurate ammunition so I can't complain
Shriner81 is offline  
Old September 22, 2013, 03:20 PM   #11
Clark
Senior Member
 
Join Date: December 4, 1999
Location: WA, the ever blue state
Posts: 2,583
The first year I ever got a deer, I got 4 of them standing broadside, up to 500 yards.

I had an elk tag and 76 elk were walking at an angle toward me.

I started shooting at 625 yards. They looked easy to hit compared to the deer.

What I did not realize was how far an elk can walk while a bullet is going 625 yards.

Shriner81, I hope you do better than I did.
__________________
The word 'forum" does not mean "not criticizing books."
"Ad hominem fallacy" is not the same as point by point criticism of books. If you bought the book, and believe it all, it may FEEL like an ad hominem attack, but you might strive to accept other points of view may exist.
Are we a nation of competing ideas, or a nation of forced conformity of thought?
Clark is offline  
Old September 22, 2013, 05:49 PM   #12
tobnpr
Senior Member
 
Join Date: August 1, 2010
Location: Tampa Bay
Posts: 2,761
Yep...I don't hunt, but one second of flight time must equal the difference between hitting the vitals, or not...at that distance if you don't account for it.
__________________
Custom Gunstocks for the Mosin-Nagant and Stock Duplication
www.biggorillagunworks.com
tobnpr is offline  
Old September 22, 2013, 05:59 PM   #13
Bart B.
Senior Member
 
Join Date: February 15, 2009
Posts: 3,819
Quote:
Team Savage helped the US win the F-Class World Championship a few years back with bone-stock Savages. 'Nuff said.
Were their barrels hand picked after measuring several to ensure they have tight and uniform bore and groove diameters?
__________________
US Navy Distinguished Marksman Badge 153
Former USA Palma Team Member
NRA High Power Long Range High Master
NRA Smallbore Prone Master
Bart B. is offline  
Old September 22, 2013, 06:16 PM   #14
Shriner81
Junior Member
 
Join Date: September 19, 2013
Posts: 14
It'll be a experience to take an animal at those distances for sure, but like I stated, I'll stalk within an appropriate distance if the conditions don't permit a longer shot. It makes my challenge seem easier knowing I have an extended effective range.
Shriner81 is offline  
Old September 22, 2013, 07:24 PM   #15
Powderman
Senior Member
 
Join Date: September 7, 2001
Location: Washington State
Posts: 2,151
Shriner:

Please be aware that the energy of the .308 at that range will be marginal, as far as ensuring a clean kill on a big game animal.

When you get out to the ranges you're talking about, your round will only be carrying between 700 and 800 ft/lb of energy--if that. Plus, if you shoot with a 10 mph wind, full value, your POI will displace by as much as 60 to 65 inches.

Not a good state of affairs.

For that range, I'd be looking at something in the area of a .300 Win Mag, with a 180 grain soft point.

By the way, if you want a challenge then try this: Stalk to within 50 yards, and take your animal with a big bore revolver, like a .44 magnum pushing a 240 to 300 grain bullet.
__________________
Hiding in plain sight...
Powderman is offline  
Old September 22, 2013, 07:33 PM   #16
Shriner81
Junior Member
 
Join Date: September 19, 2013
Posts: 14
My ballistics show 1100 ft pounds of energy out to 700 yards, plenty enough to humanly kill the animal with a good shot. Hopefully I'll be able to film the hunt as well and share it with you all.
Shriner81 is offline  
Old September 23, 2013, 04:00 PM   #17
Kimbercommander
Member
 
Join Date: September 23, 2013
Location: Oregon
Posts: 52
My primary hunting rifle is a Kimber M8400 long action in .300 win mag. i have had great sucsess with the 195gr hornady match ammo. with a BC of .550 and a MV of about 3070 out of my 26" barrel they are doing anywhere from
.85 to .45 groups at 100 yards. thats with a 1 in 10 twist rate. I topped it with a Nightforce 5.5-22x56 NXS. Now i am a believer in Long range and cheap should not go into the same sentence. however for anyone wanting to shoot long distance please take this tip and try it. take a six inch paper circle(if you are hunting deer, 10" if you are hunting elk) put one out at every 100 yards you plan on being able to shoot. now shoot at it not from a benchrest i.e. from prone supported or kneeling supported such as you would find yourself in out in the field. however far you can hit 5 out of 5 shots is your "Long Range" once you start missing those size of targets you should not hunt that far out. from my experience most all bolt weapons can do this out to about 500-600 yards depending on ammo and shooter. most all weapon companies today are cranking out some really impressive weapons. i would be willing to say most weapons made today are capable of outshooting the shooter 9 out of 10 times. just buy something you are comfortable with and is not such a butt kicker you start to develop a flinch. shot placement is always better then trying to muscle a huge round on to target when you are scared of it. in the end it all comes down to just being honest with yourself about what you want and what you are capable of. if all you want to do is test your skills as a marksman then please do it at the range not on a animal that can take a hard hit and still run for miles. hunting is not the forum for testing yourself. thats what the ranges are for.

Last edited by Kimbercommander; September 23, 2013 at 04:10 PM.
Kimbercommander is offline  
Old September 23, 2013, 04:09 PM   #18
Shriner81
Junior Member
 
Join Date: September 19, 2013
Posts: 14
That is some very good advice kimbercommander. I'm going to do that next time I'm at the range. Deliver first shot hits to a paper plate hopefully out to 700 yards and I will feel much more comfortable about taking game at those distances.
Shriner81 is offline  
Old September 23, 2013, 04:55 PM   #19
tobnpr
Senior Member
 
Join Date: August 1, 2010
Location: Tampa Bay
Posts: 2,761
Quote:
Were their barrels hand picked after measuring several to ensure they have tight and uniform bore and groove diameters?
Don't know...but, factory barrels nonetheless. Like any other mass produced item I'm sure there are tolerances. Did they "hand pick"? I know I would have...

Skeptics raise the question (it's a fair one) all the time, so I'll contact Savage to see if I can get an answer (seriously...).
__________________
Custom Gunstocks for the Mosin-Nagant and Stock Duplication
www.biggorillagunworks.com
tobnpr is offline  
Old September 23, 2013, 08:24 PM   #20
Kimbercommander
Member
 
Join Date: September 23, 2013
Location: Oregon
Posts: 52
the key to the reliable accuracy of a savage is the way they use the barrel nut to also set the head spacing. in do so they take most of the variables out of the building of the gun. i have had a few savage varmit guns and they all shot well under 1 MOA. im not to sure about the barrels but i do know thats where the accuracy comes from. they tend to shoot just as well with factory loads as they do with handloads the only one i havent had much luck with was a .338 LM that i got but it had a problem from the factory which after i sent it back it was good to go i was shooting 285 gr hornady match and was shooting better at 300 then i was at 100. but thats another topic altogether. all things aside if you buy a savage you wont be unhappy i believe. however one thing to check if it has the one piece base or the two piece bases is make sure to take the screws out and please put a thread lock on the screws. i had a Leupold M4 tac scope on my .338 and the bases literally fell off the gun. i know bad on my part for not checking but i had never had a problem with that before after talking to a savage rep they had been having problems like that for a while i guess.
Another tip to add to my previous tip is to make sure you get your heart rate elevated when you are doing that test i know i keep adding to it but this will help as i have never seen elk and not had my heart race a bit. i mainly cow hunt anymore but i used to do bull only and there is nothing like drawing down on a big 6 and having your cross hairs doing a little dance.

Last edited by Kimbercommander; September 23, 2013 at 09:00 PM.
Kimbercommander is offline  
Old September 23, 2013, 09:09 PM   #21
Shriner81
Junior Member
 
Join Date: September 19, 2013
Posts: 14
Another good piece of advice. I went out shooting tonight and dropped a 12 ounce beer bottle at 475 yards first shot. I feel pretty good about that in comparison to the vital size of an elk. Can't wait to get out there hunting
Shriner81 is offline  
Old October 24, 2013, 05:18 PM   #22
byronick87
Junior Member
 
Join Date: October 21, 2013
Posts: 4
hi guys,

im new to the firing line and this is literally my first post.

this is just my experience:

i bought a 700 sps varmint with 26" from bass pro for 550 + a 50$ rebate to bring it down to 500 this past May and I loved the feel of it.

initially, even with factory premium ammo, i could not get it to group under 10" @175 yrds - painful

after doing a bedding job, and buying a reloading die for it, it tightened up a little bit to around 6" at 175 yrds but thats still terrible - especially for handloads.

i then went all out at figured that if i ruin the stock, i can just have an excuse to buy a nice BC or HS precision.

I bought a 5' long aluminum I beam from RONA for ~15$, a two part epoxy enough for 10 bedding jobs for another $15.

after removing all the internal plastic reinforcement inside the stock and channeling out the forend for the barrell contour, i put the aluminum bars in the forend of the stock and literally FILLED it to the top with epoxy.

i then proceeded to fully bed the action to about 1" in front of the lug nut.

verdict

a fully free floated r 700 sps varmint

i took it to the range the next day and i shot sub moa at 100yrds all day - no matter what load i had for it.

i rang a metal plate out at 380 yards shot after shot until my ammunition ran out.


its hard to find any reloading components in canada right now for some reason so i didnt have much selection on powder.
after a few weeks of trial and error, i found my 700 liked speer 168 gr HPBT backed by right on the dot 41 gr of AA2230 and cci 200 primers winchester or federal brass never did much of a difference.


end of the day, if the load mentioned above consistently rings the gong at 380 yrds, im happy and for $45 (15 for the epoxy, 15 for the aluminum re-bar, and 15 for the 6 pack) and a solid saturday evening, I found myself an awesome target/tactical rifle for a deal!!!

hope this post helps anyone looking to improve their groupings ( and their love for this slowly dieing brand)

-B
byronick87 is offline  
Old October 24, 2013, 07:15 PM   #23
Bart B.
Senior Member
 
Join Date: February 15, 2009
Posts: 3,819
KimberCommander says the key to the reliable accuracy of a Savage is the way they use the barrel nut to also set the head spacing. In doing so, they take most of the variables out of the building of the gun.

I don't think so. Headspace in the barrel stays the same from shot to shot; it doesn't change at all. Plus, even if it was anywhere between SAAMI minimum and maximum amounts, accuracy would not be effected in any way. The best reloads would be sized so their case headspace was a couple thousandths short of chamber headspace. Doesn't matter what that number is.

The above aside, the headspacing method Savage uses does make it inexpensive and very good; several bolts don't need to be checked with a GO and NO GO gauge until one's just right for Savage's specs.
__________________
US Navy Distinguished Marksman Badge 153
Former USA Palma Team Member
NRA High Power Long Range High Master
NRA Smallbore Prone Master
Bart B. is offline  
Old October 24, 2013, 07:34 PM   #24
Metal god
Senior Member
 
Join Date: April 10, 2012
Location: San Diego CA
Posts: 1,664
Shriner81 : I have the same rifle and it shoots really well with 168gr smk. I've been trying to get 175 and 190s to shoot out of it as well . I have had some good results but ran into a action screw problem . They kept coming loose . If I were you I'd keep an eye on that with your rifle .
__________________
If you have a problem with everybody .

It's not everybody that has the problem
Metal god is offline  
Old October 24, 2013, 08:10 PM   #25
ripnbst
Senior Member
 
Join Date: November 24, 2010
Location: Tulsa, OK
Posts: 1,385
Budget long range setup results

I've got a Rem 700 ADL I paid just over $300 for at Academy on sale. It shoots sub MOA all day at 200 yards. Sounds like you just got a bad one Byron.
ripnbst is offline  
Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 11:29 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
This site and contents, including all posts, Copyright © 1998-2013 S.W.A.T. Magazine
Copyright Complaints: Please direct DMCA Takedown Notices to the registered agent: thefiringline.com
Contact Us
Page generated in 0.12786 seconds with 8 queries