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Old September 20, 2013, 03:52 AM   #1
ladybird
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Will you ask the offender to wait you've pull out of your bag/coat your gun?

It should be shift to another place , please !
I don't find "strategy or tactics..."

Hallo everybody,

firstly I have to ask you for patience , because my english is got possibilities .

I'm from Germany .

Why do you think to protect yourself by wearing a gun ?

If you fancy you are carrying many bags in both of your hands , walking from a shop to your car hoping in time !?

While that time you could be shot . You can't protect yourself in many situations outside ! For example while a outdoor-swimming , sports etc.

Will you want the killer to wait you drop your fork and knife in the restaurant and look for your gun ?

Why do you believe you are use a weapon and you would be able to deter an attack ?

The surest way can be a ban of weapons , if I can't protect myself outside . If no access to weapons , nobody can shot .Has everbody a gun / rifle , nobody gets a shelter at once .

Thanks for explaining !

Regina

Last edited by ladybird; September 20, 2013 at 04:16 AM. Reason: Ask you the offender to wait you've pulled out your gun of your coat hoping in time ?
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Old September 20, 2013, 04:08 AM   #2
trg42wraglefragle
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Because in the UK they have banned ALL handguns and semi automatic rifles, yet the police in London everyday are finding these guns in the hands of criminals.

So banning these types of weapons will do nothing except stop law abiding citizens from enjoying themselves.

The main reason for this, is that by definition criminals do not obey the law, so what is the purpose of making these laws if the people who they are meant for aren't going to obey them anyway?
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Old September 20, 2013, 04:30 AM   #3
JimmyR
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ladybird
The surest way
The surest way to prevent being killed in an auto accident is to stay off the roads.

The surest way to avoid having your home broken into is to be homeless.

Your suggestion is equally preposterous for multiple reasons:

1) Guns can't be un-invented. They will always be in the hands of the public, and most illegally owned objects are owned by those whose intent is to break the law.

2) Banning guns does not end violence. EVEN IF guns were to suddenly disappear, we would still see evil men and women harm others. Violence is something that has been around before the advent of gunpowder, much less modern firearms. Assuming that guns are the root of violence is historically inaccurate and foolish.
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Old September 20, 2013, 04:53 AM   #4
buckhorn_cortez
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Quote:
Why do you think to protect yourself by wearing a gun ?
Because without one I absolutely can't protect myself. If the police carry guns to protect themselves, then carrying a gun must be a way to protect yourself.

Quote:
If you fancy you are carrying many bags in both of your hands , walking from a shop to your car hoping in time !?
You drop the bags and draw your gun. While it may take longer, you at least have a chance to protect yourself.

Quote:
While that time you could be shot . You can't protect yourself in many situations outside ! For example while a outdoor-swimming , sports etc.
Okay...there are some situations where carrying is not possible - that doesn't negate every other situation.

Quote:
Will you want the killer to wait you drop your fork and knife in the restaurant and look for your gun ?
If I'm carrying a gun, I don't need to "look" for it. I know exactly where it is at all times. You seem to assume it takes a long period of time to draw a gun. You're really slow if you can't do it in under 3 seconds - even from a seated position WITH a fork in your gun hand. Many people shoot action pistol sports and in some cases, you have to draw the gun from seated positions and concealed locations - you can practice this if you think you need to cover this type of situation.


Quote:
Why do you believe you are use a weapon and you would be able to deter an attack ?
Because I know I absolutely can't and have NO CHANCE without one.


Quote:
The surest way can be a ban of weapons , if I can't protect myself outside . If no access to weapons , nobody can shot .Has everbody a gun / rifle , nobody gets a shelter at once .
By definition, criminals don't obey the law. Criminals will always have guns. I want to be able to defend myself from people who don't obey the laws.
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Old September 20, 2013, 05:17 AM   #5
oldandslow
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Welcome ladybird, 9/20/13

Your outlook on firearms possession and their use is a common one. There are two types of victims- those that deny they can do anything to resist successfully and those that choose to be prepared.

Unfortunately being in denial doesn't protect you. Ask those folks living in areas where gun posession is severely restricted yet have high murder rates (Chicago, Illinois and northern Mexico come to mind right off). Gun denial only works to disadvantage the honest citizen and not for the criminals who can always obtain them.

Being prepared means you have the option of defending yourself and preventing injury or death. Being prepared has saved my life twice, both times with firearms.

No one expects you to change your view on personal protection. Just don't expect to restrict my right to protect myself.

best wishes- oldandslow
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Old September 20, 2013, 06:58 AM   #6
Mobuck
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My strategy is to carry "my bags" in my non shooting hand. Should I feel the need to draw, the bags get swung, dropped, or thrown as a distraction while I draw with the other hand. When the Grandkids are walking with me, they already know not to walk on my right side or hold onto my right hand. I keep some small bills in my left front pants pocket. If by some lack of attention, a bad guy catches me off guard I drop/throw these few bills on the ground between us. The bad guy watches the money fall and is distracted while I draw. I don't carry my pistol in a bag or coat-it's on my belt and my coat is not zipped or buttoned to the point I can't access my gun.
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Old September 20, 2013, 08:17 AM   #7
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Zuerst, ladybird, sei hier bei uns Willkommen. Machen Sie sich keine Sorge, dass Ihr Englisch zu schlecht ist. Ihr Englisch ist unbedingt besser als mein Deutsch. Es ist schon lange gewesen, seit ich in Deutschland war.

(First, ladybird, be welcome here with us. Do not worry that your English is too bad. Your English is undoubtedly better than my German. It has been a long time since I was in Germany.)

On to your questions:
1) If I have a gun and am attacked, I have some chance to use the gun to protect myself. If I have no gun, I can still be attacked, but then I have no chance to use a gun to protect myself.

2) A ban on guns doesn't mean that nobody will have them. It only means that the people who obey the law will have them. I don't worry about people who obey the law. It's criminals, who do not obey the law to begin with, that worry me. They will continue to have guns even if there is a ban.
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Old September 20, 2013, 09:07 AM   #8
40-82
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It's easy to tell a man that his chosen tool for defense will not work because the argument has the flavor of a technological discussion. After all people have all sorts of opinions on whether a given instrument will achieve its intended purpose. As an example a great many women have been dissuaded from carrying a handgun for self defense by the argument that a mugger or a rapist would simply disarm them. Such an argument might even work well enough on an uninitiated person to be accepted as well meaning advice. It's much harder and plays less well to tell a person that he has no right to live if a random stranger should choose otherwise.
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Old September 20, 2013, 10:13 AM   #9
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Ladybird,
I get your point that an armed good guy is at an inherent disadvantage relative to an armed bad guy. Nevertheless, the good guy can do some things to mitigate the disadvantage in alot of situations. (e.g. training, situational awareness, avoiding certain situations) Still there are some situations where the bad guy's advantage can't be overcome. I carry because of those situations where having protection is better than the alternative.

On your point about eliminating guns from the general public. First, our Constitution prevents wholesale elimination of guns. Second, it isn't possible. Way too many guns out there already. If firearm production stopped today there would be a substantial number of firearms available for at least 50 years, maybe longer. Even if the flow could be stopped the stock is so larger it wouldn't have a substantial effect on someone who really wants a firearm from obtaining one, especially the criminals.

Last edited by glh17; September 20, 2013 at 10:24 AM.
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Old September 20, 2013, 11:48 AM   #10
Frank Ettin
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ladybird
...The surest way can be a ban of weapons , if I can't protect myself outside . If no access to weapons , nobody can shot ...
  1. As others have said, there's really no way to completely ban guns. As long as guns exist, criminals will find ways of getting them.

  2. There's no way to ban weapons. A great many things can be used as a weapon -- kitchen knives, tools, pieces of pipe, etc.

  3. Violent people and people who will be criminals will always be among us, and they will use whatever is at hand to commit their criminal acts. And the young, strong criminal will always have the means to prey on the weaker, defenseless person.

  4. The police will not always be there.

  5. Ultimately there will be times when an innocents person's only options will be to either be maimed or killed, or to defend himself if he can.

  6. For someone who has bothered to acquire some basic skills, a gun is an effective tool for self defense. There are news stories all the time of innocent people successfully defending themselves. See here and here.
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Old September 20, 2013, 01:23 PM   #11
Wyosmith
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Ladybird
You are a person that is so typical of many in this world
You have no experience in the subject you are trying to discuss and no training either. Yet you post on a forum that is full of folks that do and try to convince them that you have a valid opinion.
This is not meant to insult you. It is meant to illustrate a truth that is all too prevalent in the world and unfortunately, all too prevalent in the USA too.

You are not from the USA. So if you are here now, please understand that in OUR highest law of OUR land we retain the RIGHT to defend ourselves against unlawful offender from both within and without the borders. If you don't like that law, go back home to where you do like the laws.

If you truly want to learn the issues here, and truly want to learn about the use of arms in deadly conflict, there are many here (myself included) who would be happy to teach you. I have been an instructor in the use of arms for both martial and recreational use for over 35 years. I have also used arms to protect myself in real fights on several occasions.

Your question “Why do you believe you are use a weapon and you would be able to deter an attack ? has a very simple answer. Because you can and because it works.

You are correct in assuming that if you are unarmed and untrained, you will be 100% helpless if you are attacked. You are also correct, in that if you get shot and killed before you can react, you will be unable to do anything about it.

However, what you fail to understand is that if someone attacked you and I (and MANY other Americans) are around you, we would be in a position to do something about it, because we DO have the guns and we DO have the training.

But it seems by your post you would rather make it a crime for me to defend you, others, or even myself.

Last edited by Spats McGee; September 20, 2013 at 01:59 PM. Reason: Removing personal attacks
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Old September 20, 2013, 01:31 PM   #12
ladybird
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Dear buckhorn cortez ,

as well dear olandslow & Jimmy R ,


you admit the fact you can't avoid an attack by all occasion .

Mainly should be consider not even the task force can be concentrate all the time . They are educated for worst case and they won't be good under pressure 8 h a day .

How should an ordenary person have that watch out pressure ?

Are those thoughts not being crazy ?

Who does believe this last before question ?
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Old September 20, 2013, 02:03 PM   #13
Spats McGee
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Ladybird,
Even if I admit that I cannot prevent all attacks, that does not mean that I will never be able to prevent any attack.

With a gun, I have some chance of protecting myself and my family.
Without a gun, that chance is diminished greatly.
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Old September 20, 2013, 02:26 PM   #14
ladybird
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Dear jimmy R.,

Of coUrse I could be hidden by a car , if I would survive a shot !

The probability of my caraccident is more less than an encounter with a killer .

At least in my country .

Our killing frenzy men count about 4 in 8 years , if I'm right .

Olandoslow , there are 4 of those in a month in Illinois , Chicago etc.

That's why you are allowed to buy guns there . The opposite of Europe .

In Europe you can't buy except you join a gun club .

In the vicinity of our gun clubs it happened all the tragedies !

Parents do keep their gun club rifles at home ( locked up or not ) and their kids get the rifles .

Would gun clubs be banned nowhere does get anybody a weapon . As well in USA !

It works in Europe except the gun club areas . That's just a hobby and not important , when people are endanger !

Also american sanity & reason shows the Europe rule model .

I know as well , that many people don't abide the law , also in Europe ( East,Europe is very poor ) .

Those persons have guns of course . It can't be avoid , but this gunuser are 10% I think . You can't by offical .

Because it is very simply to buy a gun without getting troubles , like USA .

You can't protect yourself while the gunman stands in front of you !
He shoots in half a second . You haven'nt a thought for prevent all day long .
Whatever you do 8h outdoor , you are distracted . Nobody of you is a robot !

You shall think about a real protection ! How about a helmet and bullet proof clothes ?
Your mind would be ease and your hands are free for fun .
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Old September 20, 2013, 02:37 PM   #15
Spats McGee
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ladybird,
1) Do you have any idea how many firearms there are in the USA?
2) Are you aware that a ban on firearms would violate the U.S. Constitution?
3) Why should my right to own a firearm be dependent on the odds of my being able to use it to do so?

Let me be clear, too: Defending myself and my family is not a hobby.
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If you ever have a real need for more than a couple of magazines, your problem is not a shortage of magazines. It's a shortage of people on your side of the argument. -- Art Eatman
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Old September 20, 2013, 02:39 PM   #16
Glenn E. Meyer
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Since in the USA, we have many cases of people successfully defending themselves with firearms, Ladybird, your analyses are not supported empirically.

Thus arguing for that its own sake, isn't that useful.
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Old September 20, 2013, 02:50 PM   #17
ladybird
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Mobuck,

isn't it a hassle to can't be relaxed additional among the grandchildren ?
I don't believe that you have a relaxed life. You will get a heartstroke .


Spacemanspiff , yeah your independence the fight , your traditions claims selling weapons !

Gh17 , a good boy or a bad boy can't regullary be trained like task force police .
One has his target in a second , during the other is looking for his child .
You can't tell me , you are in totally amarness to check a criminal before it is shown !

Last edited by ladybird; September 20, 2013 at 04:32 PM. Reason: mistakes
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Old September 20, 2013, 03:07 PM   #18
ladybird
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Heeeyy Spat McGee,

Du kannst doch noch gut deutsch , auch schreiben Was ich so auf den 1.Blick sah .

Eine Erleichterung in deutsch zu schreiben zu können .

Soll ich das echt übersetzen ?

You are very good writing German yet . If my first look / impression doesn't deceit me !

i have to take a closer look !

I feel relief to write in my mothertounge !

Have I really to translate this German words ?

My language has 5 words , which need translated in Englisg 10words !
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Old September 20, 2013, 03:27 PM   #19
dayman
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You're right that - in a perfect world - there would be no need for guns. But - sadly - we do not live in a perfect world, and many of us here would rather be prepared when things get ugly.
You're also right that we can't defend ourselves from everything. But, the same argument could be made against seat-belts, fire-alarms, or getting your yearly physical exam.

I think it's primarily a cultural issue.
Constitution aside, Americans come from a culture founded by revolutionaries. Since the founding of our country we've been citizens rather than subjects. Because of that, many of us reject the idea that the only those who work for our government should be able to arm themselves.
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Old September 20, 2013, 03:34 PM   #20
ladybird
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Dear Wyosmith ,

I don't feel insulted by you and you are totally right , because I'm not in your country !

That's the resean for asking you about . I don't know anybody from USA .

Further I don't want pester you with my thoughts or want you to give up your dreams with protect .

I'm a realistic thinking person and you are a dreamer to say you prefer a gun instead a bullet proof coat or you achieve a law create a bill for banning all firearms , guns , rifles .

As a woman I can't tell apart or definite weapons at all .

I think some of you prefer a life like a historical cowboy with a law consists of arms .

I would get a heartstroke would I have in worry about my kids at the playground .

You're really are a cowboy and I are allowed to say my opinion !
Like you do !
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Old September 20, 2013, 03:46 PM   #21
ladybird
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Dear trg42....,

Uk , Europe at all has a couple of not obeying criminals with guns .
Therefore is there no reason , no permission to leave gunshops open .
Better a few mugger have guns than a whole country with crazy minds among other can get a killer after buying a gun a second before .

To cope with that danger cannot justifyied to get everybody a weapon !
That's not a solution for Europian people ! There are not enough criminals ! Ht wouldn't pay out in Europe !
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Old September 20, 2013, 03:47 PM   #22
manta49
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Quote:
Americans come from a culture founded by revolutionaries. Since the founding of our country we've been citizens rather than subjects. Because of that, many of us reject the idea that the only those who work for our government should be able to arm themselves
What's the difference. As for handguns for self defence better having one and not needing it than needing one and not having one. Not all Americans carry handguns I would guess the vast majority don't.
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Old September 20, 2013, 03:54 PM   #23
ladybird
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Glenn E Meyer ,


my analyses are not supported empirically in every Countries , but the human mind is not that different over distances !

Look my posts and expandings .
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Old September 20, 2013, 04:10 PM   #24
spacemanspiff
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Quote:
Better a few mugger have guns than a whole country with crazy minds among other can get a killer after buying a gun a second before .
You are assuming the entire country is crazy. And maybe from your perspective we are crazy.
Look at it like this, if American gunowners were as irresponsible with their weapons as some would lead you to believe, there would be hundreds of thousands, possibly millions, of accidental shootings each year.
If Amercian gunowners were as violent and used firearms to settle every argument as some would have you believe, there would be hundreds of thousands, nay millions, of intentional shootings each year.
But to understand the whole issue, you have to understand that this country fought for its freedom and without guns, we would never have won our independance. So guns hold a lot of meaning to our citizens.
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Old September 20, 2013, 04:14 PM   #25
ladybird
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Manta49,

you are saying it .Yoy are forgotten cowboys without social or civil reasons .
A smart person don't want give more weapons for protecting , he wants to destroy all weapons for protect .
Protect the heart , the leisure time , all !

There are very less trying to getting a weapon , when nobody sells any kind of weapons !
Do you not get a few police for a few criminals ?

To ban selling all kinds of firearms, weapons means in your Land losing jobs , or missing money !

That's the fact ! Nothing else .

In Germany or Europe we become demonstraters to force our government , when something has be changed !
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