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Old September 16, 2013, 08:02 PM   #1
spacecoast
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Interesting box of ammo

I ran into this box of ammo over the weekend while looking at some old guns. I believe it is fired from some type of Derringer and was renowned for its weakness as a defensive cartridge. The Peters company went out of business in 1944 when they were bought by Remington.

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Old September 16, 2013, 08:11 PM   #2
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What you have is a box of .41 Rimfire cartridges (also sometimes called .41-100 or .41 Short as is inscribed on your box). You are correct that it was used in derringers the most common and well-known being Remington's famous Model 95 over/under derringer.
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Old September 16, 2013, 08:29 PM   #3
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Colt made a couple of derringers chambered for the .41 Short R.F., and maybe a couple of their cloverleaf revovlers as well.

Gen. Douglas MacArthur carried a Remington double derringer during WW II.

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Old September 16, 2013, 10:21 PM   #4
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Wow, I'd be surprised if one of those rounds could make it through both sides of an empty beer can.
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Old September 17, 2013, 01:08 AM   #5
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bullets

That is too cool. I gotta find me a box of those. I have one of those Remington derringers.
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Old September 17, 2013, 06:45 AM   #6
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Here's some new-production stuff.


http://www.dixiegunworks.com/product...0tkh6jojlrrlu3
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Old September 17, 2013, 10:21 AM   #7
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That box was probably made sometime in the 1930s, as denoted by the RUSTLESS mark on the box. That means that it was made without corrosive priming, was was rolled out commercially in the United States in the late 1920s.

That particular style of Rustless mark, with trade on one side and mark on the other, appears to have been used between 1930 and 1935, but Peters apparently never trademarked the term Rustless.

Most companies dropped .41 Short for World War II production and never brought it back.
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Old September 17, 2013, 10:58 AM   #8
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Seriously. . .there are a bunch of people on here that know a lot of "stuff" about a lot of "stuff."

I am amazed at the things I learn here.
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Old September 17, 2013, 12:20 PM   #9
Mike Irwin
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Remington bought Peters in around 1933, not 1944.

After Remington became a subsidiary of Du Pont in 1934, the Kings Mills, Ohio, plant continued production under the Peters name and headstamp, but boxes were marked on the back with both Du Pont and Remington and having been made by the Peters Cartridge Division, Kings Mills, Ohio, as opposed to the Peters Cartridge Company.

Du Pont/Remington finally shut down the Kings Mills operation in 1944 (odd that it would have been shut down during the war) and moved all cartridge production to Bridgeport, Connecticut.
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Old September 17, 2013, 12:50 PM   #10
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Quote:
Remington bought Peters in around 1933, not 1944.
Thanks Mike, you are truly a fount of knowledge. I guess I should know better than to some random internet source

I'd like to find the gun that goes with that ammo, I may have the chance to do that someday.
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Old September 17, 2013, 01:50 PM   #11
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How about a picture of the back and sides of the box?

Remington Double Deuce Deringers are still widely available, but the prices are literally all over the map.

Make absolutely certain that one you purchase doesn't have a cracked hinge. That's a common problem with these guns.
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Old September 17, 2013, 02:31 PM   #12
spacecoast
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Quote:
How about a picture of the back and sides of the box?
Don't have any now, but I'll be going back in about 3 months and can get more then. I plan to purchase some guns and will probably try to include that box of ammo in the deal. Cool stuff.

Thanks for the heads up on the guns.

Last edited by spacecoast; September 17, 2013 at 02:37 PM.
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Old September 17, 2013, 03:18 PM   #13
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Oh, I just assumed that you meant that you purchased it.
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Old September 17, 2013, 03:25 PM   #14
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Kinda looks like the old rim fire rounds used in the first lever guns. But werent they 44? Was there any rifle made for this round?
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Old September 17, 2013, 08:15 PM   #15
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It's a contemporary of the .44 Henry flat and the .56-56 Spencer. They also used copper cases because that's pretty much all the technology of the time could handle.

The .41 Short Rimfire was primarily a handgun cartridge, but I think I've seen references to cheap single shot rifles being chambered for it.
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Old September 17, 2013, 08:24 PM   #16
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Great thread

Thanks guys, for your post and thread as a buddy of mine was recently asking where he could get some .41 RimFire? He has a gun that he still shoots. Now I can tell him where to buy ....

Be Safe !!!
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Old September 17, 2013, 09:50 PM   #17
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Quote:
Remington bought Peters in around 1933, not 1944.
Which is why you'll see Remington ammo with the R-P headstamp.
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Old September 18, 2013, 06:45 AM   #18
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I'm not sure when the R-P headstamp started, but it apparently wasn't immediately. It might have even been AFTER the Kings Mills plant was shut down and the war ended.
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Old September 18, 2013, 07:42 AM   #19
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Does anyone still manufacture a gun that will chamber that cartridge? I couldn't find anything on google.
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Old September 18, 2013, 09:17 AM   #20
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As far as I know, the last gun chambered for the .41 Short was the Remington Model 95, which ceased production in 1935.
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Old September 18, 2013, 09:25 AM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike Irwin
It's a contemporary of the .44 Henry flat and the .56-56 Spencer.
Off subject a bit, but my very first post to TFL was for help identifying some .56-56 Spencer cases I found near an old Army fort in Wyoming.

Mr. Irwin mentioning that cartridge made me smile!

http://thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=461996
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Old September 18, 2013, 10:58 AM   #22
Mike Irwin
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I remember that thread!

I never replied to it because Jim nailed it before I could get to it.
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Old September 18, 2013, 01:36 PM   #23
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Dont shoot anybody with one of those, you might **** him off
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Old September 20, 2013, 12:29 PM   #24
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Deadly killer....

According to historical anecdotes, (which you can believe, or not) the .41 RF derringer was one of the most feared weapons of its day. It was the preferred arm of the river boat gamblers and others who did not pack a full size handgun.

It was widely feared, because it was (justifiably) regarded as a sure killer. NOT a sure stopper, although likely countless fights were stopped at the sight of that gun.

The reason it was a deadly killer was the low power of the round, the outside lubricated bullet, and the state of medicine at the time.

The .41 RF has about enough power to go "half way through a man". Death from being (torso) shot with the .41 was almost certain, although it might take a couple weeks or so, with such treatment as was possible at the time. The bullet lube was somewhat sticky, and often ammo was carried in a pocket, so the bullet carried dirt, and small foreign objects with it, and stayed in the body. Death from infection was a near certainty.

With the bigger, more powerful rounds (.44, .45) the bullets often completely penetrated the body. When this happened, docs basically "plugged the leaks", and hoped for the best. If the bullet didn't kill you outright, you had basically a 50/50 chance for survival. With the .41 bullet inside you, it was slim, and none, and slim wasn't around much...

Many people in the era knew what would happen, if not why, so the .41RF was a feared gun to face, for those who knew most.
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Old September 20, 2013, 12:41 PM   #25
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I've always looked at that claim as being more than a little bit suspicious, 44.

Why?

Because there were a TON of small, underpowered, cartridges with externally lubricated bullets that used sticky, tallow-derived lubes, that were packaged in very popular pocket guns.

Even many of the powerhouse cartridges of the day, such as the .44 S&W American or the .44 Colt, both of which gained fair popularity, used externally lubricated bullets.

Yet it's only the .41 SR that seems to have this fearsome reputation as the bringer of plagues...

That said, most doctors with even a modicum of surgical skill could do a fairly good job of removing a deeply lodged bullet.

And by the time a lot of these guns were around, they even had anesthetics to make it a lot more pleasant.
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