The Firing Line Forums

Go Back   The Firing Line Forums > Hogan's Alley > Handguns: General Handgun Forum

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old September 11, 2013, 12:23 AM   #1
Drumson
Junior Member
 
Join Date: September 10, 2013
Posts: 2
Transfering a handgun

Can someone tell me how I can legally ship a gifted handgun? Or can only an FFL ship and receive? Thanks in advance for your help.

Drumson
Drumson is offline  
Old September 11, 2013, 02:10 AM   #2
Tomac
Senior Member
 
Join Date: December 15, 2001
Location: Caldwell, Idaho
Posts: 427
Handguns must ship FFL to FFL.
Tomac
__________________
"When injustice becomes law, resistance becomes duty." - Thomas Jefferson
Tomac is offline  
Old September 11, 2013, 07:09 AM   #3
Doyle
Senior Member
 
Join Date: June 20, 2007
Location: Starkville, MS (new to MS)
Posts: 4,668
Quote:
Handguns must ship FFL to FFL.
Not totally true. It must only go FFL to FFL if the transferee and transferor are residents of different states. If they are both in the same state, federal law allows shipping directly. It cannot go USPS because their regs only allow FFLs to ship handguns anywhere. UPS and FedEx have their own rules and hoops.

This being said, the above is federal law. Your state law may be more strict.
Doyle is offline  
Old September 11, 2013, 07:43 AM   #4
Herr Walther
Senior Member
 
Join Date: April 10, 2001
Location: A Place Worse than California
Posts: 782
And that's not true either. A private individual may ship directly to an out of state FFL provided that the FFL will accept such transfers from individuals.

A person may sell or transfer a firearm to a licensee in any State. However, a firearm other than a curio or relic may not be transferred interstate to a licensed collector.
[18 U.S.C. 922(a)(3) and (5), 922(d), 27 CFR 478.29 and 478.30]
__________________
"It was people who upheld their duties to their office, the constitution, and the public by opposing Hitler who were called traitors"
-------------------------------------
"...a historian asked what had happened to the German people for them to accept a criminal government. Unfortunately, nothing needed to happen. In nations across the world people accept government crime."
-------------------------------------
"In democracies as well as dictatorships, subordinates illegally obey their rulers. Subordinates who remain true to their oaths of office by opposing their rulers are rare."
Herr Walther is offline  
Old September 11, 2013, 09:45 AM   #5
Doyle
Senior Member
 
Join Date: June 20, 2007
Location: Starkville, MS (new to MS)
Posts: 4,668
Herr, you are correct. I should have said "to an FFL" if transfer is out of state.
Doyle is offline  
Old September 11, 2013, 10:52 AM   #6
Frank Ettin
Staff
 
Join Date: November 23, 2005
Location: California - San Francisco
Posts: 6,538
Quote:
Originally Posted by Drumson
Can someone tell me how I can legally ship a gifted handgun?...
Shipping

An individual may ship a handgun only by UPS or FedEx. He may not legally ship a handgun by USPS.
  1. If you ship a handgun by UPS or FedEx, you must agree to abide by their rules (called "tariffs").

  2. Here are the applicable FedEx rules for firearms:
    Quote:
    Firearms

    1. FedEx Express will transport and deliver firearms as defined by the United States Gun Control Act of 1968, between areas served in the U.S., but only between:

      1. Licensed importers; licensed manufacturers; licensed dealers; licensed collectors; law enforcement agencies of the U.S. or any department or agency thereof; and law enforcement agencies of any state or any department, agency or political subdivisions thereof; or

      2. Where not prohibited by local, state and federal law, from individuals to licensed importers, licensed manufacturers or licensed dealers (and return of same).

    2. If your shipment contains firearms, select the Direct Signature Required or Adult Signature Required Delivery Signature Option, depending on the requirements of your shipment. See the Delivery Signature Options section for details. Firearms shipments are not eligible for signature release or indirect delivery.

    3. Firearms must be shipped via FedEx Priority Overnight service. FedEx Express cannot ship or deliver firearms C.O.D. Firearms shipments cannot be placed in a FedEx Express Drop Box.

    4. Upon presenting the package for shipment, the person tendering the shipment to FedEx Express is required to notify FedEx Express that the package contains a firearm. The outside of the package must not be marked, labeled or otherwise identify that the package contains a firearm.

    5. The shipper and recipient must be of legal age as identified by applicable law.

    6. The shipper and recipient are required to comply with all applicable government regulations and laws, including those pertaining to labeling. The Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives can provide assistance.

    7. FedEx Express will transport ammunition when packed and labeled in compliance with local, state and federal law, and the Dangerous Goods section of this Service Guide. Ammunition is an explosive and must be shipped separately as dangerous goods. You agree not to ship loaded firearms or firearms with ammunition in the same package.
  3. Here are the applicable UPS rules for firearms:
    Quote:
    3.6 Firearms and Ammunition

    UPS accepts packages containing firearms (as defined by Title 18, Chapter 44, and Title 26, Chapter 53 of the United States Code) only (a) between licensed importers, licensed manufacturers, licensed dealers, and licensed collectors (as defined in Title 18, Chapter 44 of the United States Code), and government agencies; and (b) where not otherwise prohibited by federal, state, or local law from (i) an individual to a licensed importer, licensed manufacturer, licensed dealer or licensed collector; and (ii) from a licensed importer, licensed manufacturer, licensed dealer, or licensed collector to an individual. The shipper shall comply with and shall ensure that each shipment containing firearms complies with all federal, state, and local laws applicable to the shipper, recipient, and package.

    –The shipper must use Delivery Confirmation Adult Signature Required service for each package containing a firearm (including handguns). UPS, in its sole discretion, may require the shipper to select a UPS Next Day Air® Service for any package containing a firearm. Handguns (as defined by 18 U.S.C. § 921) will be accepted for transportation only via UPS Next Day Air Services.

    –Firearms (including handguns) are not accepted for transportation via UPS Drop Boxes or UPS Internet Shipping, in response to a request for UPS On-Call Pickup® service, or when presented for shipment at any Third-Party Retailer. UPS Returns® Services are not available for packages containing firearms.

    –Small arms ammunition, as defined in 49 C.F.R. § 173.59, will be transported only when packaged and labeled in compliance with 49 C.F.R. § 172 (Hazardous Materials). Ammunition may not be shipped in the same package as a firearm.

    –Firearm parts, which do not constitute firearms as defined under federal law (including without limitation Title 18, Chapter 44, and Title 26, Chapter 53 of the United States Code), and which otherwise comply with federal, state, and local law, will be accepted for transportation.

    –Firearms (including handguns) and firearm parts are not accepted for shipment internationally. See www.ups.com/content/us/en/resource /ship/packaging/guidelines/firearms.html or contact UPS for more information...
  4. Basically, under the applicable tariffs, and individual may only ship a firearm by UPS and FedEx to an FFL.

  5. You may not ship a handgun using the United States Mail. Here are the applicable USPS regulations, but basically only an FFL (or certain other "official" persons) may ship a handgun by U. S. Mail. An FFL may ship a handgun by U. S. Mail only to another licensee or other "official" person.

Transfer

As noted by Herr Walther in post 4, pretty much any interstate transfer must, under federal law, go through an FFL. There are no exceptions under federal law for gifts.

Many States, but not all, permit a resident to transfer a gun to another resident without formalities or the use of any FFL. But as noted above, intrastate shipping is a problem.
__________________
"It is long been a principle of ours that one is no more armed because he has possession of a firearm than he is a musician because he owns a piano. There is no point in having a gun if you are not capable of using it skillfully." -- Jeff Cooper
Frank Ettin is offline  
Old September 11, 2013, 10:35 PM   #7
Drumson
Junior Member
 
Join Date: September 10, 2013
Posts: 2
Transfering a handgun

Well, thank you all for your valuable advice. Frankly, I don't think I want to take a chance. I'll wait until I get an opportunity to deliver it myself. Thanks again.

Drumson
Drumson is offline  
Old September 12, 2013, 09:56 AM   #8
TailGator
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 8, 2009
Location: Florida
Posts: 1,968
My understanding of the law is that if you cross a state line, hand delivering it would also be a violation without the involvement of an FFL. More knowledgeable people are likely to chime in, but I think you are going to have to go to a gun shop or similarly licensed individual when you get there to legally process the transfer even if you make the trip.
TailGator is offline  
Old September 12, 2013, 10:03 AM   #9
Revoltella
Junior member
 
Join Date: August 7, 2013
Posts: 198
There may be an exception for inherited guns if you pick them up in another state, but that would be the only exception for an interstate handgun transfer. But I would definitely double check that.
Revoltella is offline  
Old September 12, 2013, 10:35 AM   #10
Doyle
Senior Member
 
Join Date: June 20, 2007
Location: Starkville, MS (new to MS)
Posts: 4,668
Quote:
There may be an exception for inherited guns if you pick them up in another state
Actually, there isn't. Any change of ownership that involves crossing a state line has to go through an FFL.
Doyle is offline  
Old September 12, 2013, 10:53 AM   #11
Frank Ettin
Staff
 
Join Date: November 23, 2005
Location: California - San Francisco
Posts: 6,538
Quote:
Originally Posted by TailGator
My understanding of the law is that if you cross a state line, hand delivering it would also be a violation without the involvement of an FFL. More knowledgeable people are likely to chime in, but I think you are going to have to go to a gun shop or similarly licensed individual when you get there to legally process the transfer even if you make the trip.
That's correct.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Doyle
...Any change of ownership that involves crossing a state line has to go through an FFL....
It's not just a change in ownership. It's any transfer, which includes a change in possession.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Revoltella
There may be an exception for inherited guns if you pick them up in another state, but that would be the only exception for an interstate handgun transfer. ...
There is an exception under federal law for a gun which you inherit. But the means that someone has to have died and left you the gun specifically in a valid, probated written will (or the gun became yours under the applicable intestate succession laws and the estate is being administered in court).

Here's the whole federal law story on interstate transfers of firearms (not including the rules for those with Curio and Relic licenses and the subject of dual residency):
  1. Under federal law, any transfer (with a few, narrow exceptions, e. g., by bequest under a will) from a resident of one State to a resident of another must be through an FFL. The transfer must comply with all the requirements of the State in which the transfer is being done as well as all federal formalities (e. g., completion of a 4473, etc.).

  2. In the case of handguns, it must be an FFL in the transferee's State of residence. You may obtain a handgun in a State other than your State of residence, BUT it must be shipped by the transferor to an FFL in your State of residence to transfer the handgun to you.

  3. In the case of long guns, it may be any FFL as long as (1) the long gun is legal in the transferee's State of residence; and (2) the transfer complies with the laws of the State in which it takes place; and (3) the transfer complies with the law of the transferee's State of residence. In connection with the transfer of a long gun, some FFLs will not want to handle the transfer to a resident of another State, because they may be uncertain about the laws of that State. And if the transferee resides in some States (e. g., California), the laws of the State may be such that an out-of-state FFL will not be able to conduct a transfer that complies.

  4. There are no exceptions under the applicable federal laws for gifts, whether between relatives or otherwise, nor is there any exception for transactions between relatives.

  5. The relevant federal laws may be found at: 18 USC 922(a)(3); 18 USC 922(a)(5); and 18 USC 922(b)(3).

  6. Here's what the statutes say:
    Quote:
    18 U.S.C. 922. Unlawful acts

    (a) It shall be unlawful—
    ...

    (3) for any person, other than a licensed importer, licensed manufacturer, licensed dealer, or licensed collector to transport into or receive in the State where he resides (or if the person is a corporation or other business entity, the State where it maintains a place of business) any firearm purchased or otherwise obtained by such person outside that State, except that this paragraph
    (A) shall not preclude any person who lawfully acquires a firearm by bequest or intestate succession in a State other than his State of residence from transporting the firearm into or receiving it in that State, if it is lawful for such person to purchase or possess such firearm in that State,

    (B) shall not apply to the transportation or receipt of a firearm obtained in conformity with subsection (b)(3) of this section, and (C) shall not apply to the transportation of any firearm acquired in any State prior to the effective date of this chapter;
    ...

    (5) for any person (other than a licensed importer, licensed manufacturer, licensed dealer, or licensed collector) to transfer, sell, trade, give, transport, or deliver any firearm to any person (other than a licensed importer, licensed manufacturer, licensed dealer, or licensed collector) who the transferor knows or has reasonable cause to believe does not reside in (or if the person is a corporation or other business entity, does not maintain a place of business in) the State in which the transferor resides; except that this paragraph shall not apply to
    (A) the transfer, transportation, or delivery of a firearm made to carry out a bequest of a firearm to, or an acquisition by intestate succession of a firearm by, a person who is permitted to acquire or possess a firearm under the laws of the State of his residence, and

    (B) the loan or rental of a firearm to any person for temporary use for lawful sporting purposes;
    ....

    (b) It shall be unlawful for any licensed importer, licensed manufacturer, licensed dealer, or licensed collector to sell or deliver --
    ...

    (3) any firearm to any person who the licensee knows or has reasonable cause to believe does not reside in (or if the person is a corporation or other business entity, does not maintain a place of business in) the State in which the licensee's place of business is located, except that this paragraph
    (A) shall not apply to the sale or delivery of any rifle or shotgun to a resident of a State other than a State in which the licensee's place of business is located if the transferee meets in person with the transferor to accomplish the transfer, and the sale, delivery, and receipt fully comply with the legal conditions of sale in both such States (and any licensed manufacturer, importer or dealer shall be presumed, for purposes of this subparagraph, in the absence of evidence to the contrary, to have had actual knowledge of the State laws and published ordinances of both States), and

    (B) shall not apply to the loan or rental of a firearm to any person for temporary use for lawful sporting purposes;
    ...
__________________
"It is long been a principle of ours that one is no more armed because he has possession of a firearm than he is a musician because he owns a piano. There is no point in having a gun if you are not capable of using it skillfully." -- Jeff Cooper
Frank Ettin is offline  
Old September 12, 2013, 01:04 PM   #12
Sevens
Senior Member
 
Join Date: July 28, 2007
Location: Central Ohio
Posts: 8,569
For the OP, your best course of action if you wish to hand-deliver the handgun is to drive it to the resident state of the recipient, then visit an FFL/gun store who has agreed ahead of time to do the transfer. You hand over the firearm to the FFL, they enter it in their book, they do a 4473 & NICS check on the intended recipient, and your gun now legally becomes their gun. You should expect to pay the gun shop/FFL a fee for this service, $20-$50 is customary.

If you don't wish to drive it there, your lowest out of pocket method is most likely going to be to take the gun to an FFL and have them ship it to an FFL in the state of residence of your recipient. This is [i]usually[/u] your lowest cost method simply because your FFL can send a handgun via USPS Priority mail, it will literally cost the dealer around $12 to ship it, so he'll charge you for the service and typically, you can expect to pay $35-$55 for this service.

If you take it to UPS or FedEx, you'll be BLOWN AWAY by the cost to ship.
Furthermore, the receiving FFL must had previously agreed to accept shipment from a non-FFL. (many will NOT.)
__________________
Attention Brass rats and other reloaders: I really need .327 Federal Magnum brass, no lot size too small. Tell me what caliber you need and I'll see what I have to swap. PM me and we'll discuss.
Sevens is offline  
Old September 12, 2013, 01:57 PM   #13
Grizz12
Senior Member
 
Join Date: December 11, 2012
Posts: 273
every state is different, check the laws in both of them
Grizz12 is offline  
Old September 12, 2013, 03:13 PM   #14
BoogieMan
Senior Member
 
Join Date: April 4, 2012
Location: South Jersey
Posts: 1,273
Kind of an oddball question, BUT.
Does FedEx or UPS employ anyone who has ever been convicted of a felony?
Also, what if the shipment passes through a NYC terminal?
Couldnt that open the company or driver up to all types of crimes?
__________________
Concentrated power is not rendered harmless by the good intentions of those who create it.
Milton Freidman
BoogieMan is offline  
Old September 12, 2013, 05:29 PM   #15
Aguila Blanca
Senior Member
 
Join Date: September 25, 2008
Location: CONUS
Posts: 6,217
Quote:
Originally Posted by Drumson
Well, thank you all for your valuable advice. Frankly, I don't think I want to take a chance. I'll wait until I get an opportunity to deliver it myself. Thanks again.
Are you and the recipient residents of the same state?

If not, for you to deliver a handgun to a giftee without transferring it through an FFL in the recipient's state of residence is a federal felony.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Doyle
Quote:
There may be an exception for inherited guns if you pick them up in another state
Actually, there isn't. Any change of ownership that involves crossing a state line has to go through an FFL.
This is also incorrect. There IS an exception for inherited firearms. They do NOT have to be transferred through an FFL (unless required by the laws of the state where the heir resides). Refer to the law cited by Frank Ettin in post #11 ... section (a)(3)(A).

However ... there was no suggestion that the original question here involves a bequest. It was described as a "gift."
Aguila Blanca is offline  
Old September 12, 2013, 08:18 PM   #16
Frank Ettin
Staff
 
Join Date: November 23, 2005
Location: California - San Francisco
Posts: 6,538
Quote:
Originally Posted by BoogieMan
Kind of an oddball question, BUT.
Does FedEx or UPS...
FedEx and UPS are large, sophisticated companies with an army of lawyers each. I'm sure they know what they're doing and have anticipated and resolved the problems you mention.

Further discussion of these matters will be off topic for this thread.
__________________
"It is long been a principle of ours that one is no more armed because he has possession of a firearm than he is a musician because he owns a piano. There is no point in having a gun if you are not capable of using it skillfully." -- Jeff Cooper
Frank Ettin is offline  
Old September 14, 2013, 11:42 PM   #17
Locoweed
Senior Member
 
Join Date: August 8, 2008
Location: Alabama
Posts: 640
I don't screw around with all the details. I often gift handguns to my son-in-law in another state. I have him bring a copy of the FFL where he wants it shipped and I go to my local gun store with the FFL and let them handle the shipping and details. No problems.
Locoweed is offline  
Old September 15, 2013, 01:46 PM   #18
wgsigs
Senior Member
 
Join Date: August 13, 2009
Location: Texas
Posts: 210
Quote:
every state is different, check the laws in both of them
They are not the laws that apply when actually crossing state lines, whether by a common carrier or "hand carrying" the handgun as federal laws apply.
wgsigs is offline  
Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 04:30 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
This site and contents, including all posts, Copyright © 1998-2014 S.W.A.T. Magazine
Copyright Complaints: Please direct DMCA Takedown Notices to the registered agent: thefiringline.com
Contact Us
Page generated in 0.13905 seconds with 7 queries