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Old September 11, 2013, 06:18 PM   #51
SDC
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Even more interesting is that the anti-recall groups spent almost SIX TIMES AS MUCH as the recall groups (3 million, versus about 540 thousand). This was a big loss for the anti-freedom crowd, and I love it :-)
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Old September 11, 2013, 06:44 PM   #52
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...and we haven't mentioned, is IMO the outcome of these recalls have added that much more clout to North Colorado. Colorado Springs and Pueblo have just reaffirmed that their intentions are true AND actionable.
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Old September 11, 2013, 07:16 PM   #53
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Congratulations to Colorado's residents!
I hope you can reverse the damage done (via legislature or court).
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Old September 12, 2013, 09:22 AM   #54
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Interesting, yesterday CBS Evening had has their second story a factual piece on the recall and nice interviews with the organizers. However, ABC said nothing. Half their show is full of puff pieces about someone saving a duck from a pond or a kid who made a hat out of marshmallows (or some such stupidity).

Most analyses said this would be a bucket of cold water on local politicians for passing gun legislation except in hard core anti states.
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Old September 12, 2013, 10:17 AM   #55
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In an interview, Jennifer Kerns, spokesperson for the Pueblo recall group that ousted Giron, pointed out the following:

The recall was started by three blue collar guys - two plumbers and an electrician;

The recall petition had more signatures from D and I (combined) than from R voters;

Recallers were ecstatic to see a high initial turnout of Independents, because they knew they would win when that happened.
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Old September 12, 2013, 10:24 AM   #56
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There's an interesting takeaway regarding turnout.

Most Coloradans vote by mail, but for the recall election, they had to vote in person. This took a lot of casual voters out of the pool, and it became a battle of those who were emotionally invested and personally involved. The question became "who can do a better job of motivating those people?"

It turns out that was the NRA and Pueblo Freedom & Rights. PFR was consistently ignored and shut out by Giron, and that lent emotional credibility to a cause that was already a hot-button for many.

So, despite an 8:1 disadvantage in funding, focusing and motivating a core group of believers worked.

Will it work elsewhere? That's hard to tell. Are there larger strategic lessons here? Absolutely.
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Old September 12, 2013, 11:12 AM   #57
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I would surmise the the effectiveness of that strategy might be dependent on the urban/rural ratio of the states population.

For instance, Colorado's 3 largest cities only constitute about 27% of the state population and the single largest is only about 11%, where as New York's 3 largest cities constitute almost 45% of the population and the single largest is 40% by itself.

Urban areas are less likely to support this kind of thing. For example, take a look at the counties in NY that officially support the SAFE Act.
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Old September 12, 2013, 11:23 AM   #58
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AP has a story on the recall vote with the headline of "Colo recalls show risk of supporting gun control"

That makes me a little warm and fuzzy, to be honest, despite some negative in connotation and a bit of a hit piece.
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Old September 12, 2013, 11:31 AM   #59
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I found the (limited) coverage in the UK's The Independent to be more accurate and honest than that of the US MSM. The British outlet noted the bipartisan nature of the recall effort, and the warning this should give to gun controllers.
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Old September 12, 2013, 03:16 PM   #60
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NYTimes had a hissy fit over single issue politics getting rid of great legislators.

Ahem - everybody does single issue politics. Depends on your single issue, now doesn't it?
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Old September 12, 2013, 04:08 PM   #61
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Quote:
The recall petition had more signatures from D and I (combined) than from R voters
...and there's a lesson there. We ignore allies from the other side of the aisle at our peril.
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Old September 12, 2013, 04:28 PM   #62
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Glenn E Meyer
NYTimes had a hissy fit over single issue politics getting rid of great legislators.
Watching the wanna-be tyrant class cry over this has been an unexpectedly enjoyable fringe benefit.
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Old September 12, 2013, 04:41 PM   #63
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Servo
Quote:
Originally Posted by MLeake
The recall petition had more signatures from D and I (combined) than from R voters
...and there's a lesson there. We ignore allies from the other side of the aisle at our peril.
I agree 100%. Way too often I see the gun debate framed as "liberal" vs. "conservative", or "Democrat" vs. "Republican". But there are plenty of pro-gun liberals and Democrats just as there are plenty of anti-gun conservatives and Republicans. Just because a liberal or Democrat is more likely to support gun control than a conservative or a Republican doesn't mean we should alienate potential allies by framing the debate in partisan terms.
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Old September 12, 2013, 08:32 PM   #64
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Too listen to the coverage on MSNBC, it sounds like the commentators are covering the Fall of Saigon or Evacuation from Dunkirk.

I try to frame the gun control debate as a matter of Constitutionalism versus anti-Constitutionalism.

And I find the recent recall in Colorado serves as a great example of this.

And further more, the fact that it, was as MLeake pointed out, a true grass roots movement makes it all the sweeter.
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Old September 12, 2013, 09:29 PM   #65
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Quote:
The recall was started by three blue collar guys - two plumbers and an electrician;
I listened to them on local radio interviews and again on Cam and Company

It is also worth noting that these blue collar guys feel strongly that the system here in CO was specifically designed to keep regular people on the sidelines, and mere "citizen voters".

I feel somewhat redeemed by this, I have been complaining about government hegemony for at least 15 years, up until now I had not heard anyone else complain about it. Although they did not use the term hegemony, what they described was exactly that, the government has obstacles in place to help ensure that only government has power, and all the people can do is vote.

I view this latest push for gun control as hegemony also, the government seeks to have a monopoly on the legitimate use of violence.
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Old September 12, 2013, 11:08 PM   #66
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Quote:
NYTimes had a hissy fit over single issue politics getting rid of great legislators.

Ahem - everybody does single issue politics. Depends on your single issue, now doesn't it?

Yeah, really.


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Old September 13, 2013, 01:35 PM   #67
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Quote:
NYTimes had a hissy fit over single issue politics getting rid of great legislators.
Agreed. Although I do feel the need to point out that, if they had truly been great legislators, they wouldn't have been recalled.
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Old September 13, 2013, 01:59 PM   #68
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http://www.politico.com/story/2013/0...ire-96667.html

Quote:
The defeat of two pro-gun control Colorado state senators in recall elections sends a message that should be heard all the way back on the Upper East Side, and maybe even in Hamilton.

Read more: http://www.politico.com/story/2013/0...#ixzz2enhpPlkE
Nice review of the issues and hopefully future great legislators will learn from this.
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Old September 13, 2013, 02:12 PM   #69
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Quote:
NYTimes had a hissy fit over single issue politics getting rid of great legislators.
They should. The political makeup of upstate New York isn't all that different than urban areas of Colorado.
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Old September 13, 2013, 02:30 PM   #70
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I don't understand why so many have posted here that it would be useless to go for a repeal right now of the anti-2A laws that cost these 2 legislators their political careers. In spite of the small Democratic majority, it's my opinion that several of the lawmakers would jump at the chance to change their votes and try to stay in office next election.

I say introduce the legislation to repeal the law now.
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Old September 13, 2013, 02:37 PM   #71
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Quote:
Originally Posted by motorhead0922
I don't understand why so many have posted here that it would be useless to go for a repeal right now of the anti-2A laws that cost these 2 legislators their political careers. In spite of the small Democratic majority, it's my opinion that several of the lawmakers would jump at the chance to change their votes and try to stay in office next election.

I say introduce the legislation to repeal the law now.
I read recently...can't remember where, but I'll try to dig up the link, that even though the Dems maintain a small majority, pro-2A sentiments cross party lines, and there is (according to this article) now a 3 vote majority favoring 2A.

Now does that extend to repeals? I don't know.


Ah...here it is, the Kopel piece:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave Kopel
The Colorado Senate is now 18-17 Democratic, and 19-16 pro-Second Amendment. On gun issues, and on many others, the balance of power is now held by moderate Democrats, rather than by the hard left faction formerly led by Morse.
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Old September 13, 2013, 02:54 PM   #72
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If I were in CO. I would go for it. It can't really hurt and you my gain a better idea of who are your friends.
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Old September 13, 2013, 04:03 PM   #73
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Enjoy the schadenfreude, folks. Here's a video of Senator Giron melting down on CNN. The anchor does her best to get Giron to admit she lost through a combination of arrogance and political tone-deafness, but Giron keeps blaming the Koch brothers (?) and "voter suppression."

It's nice to see them taken down a peg, and it's also good to see the mainstream media questioning the influence and reach of Mayor Bloomberg.
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Old September 13, 2013, 04:29 PM   #74
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Brian Pfleuger wrote:

I would surmise the the effectiveness of that strategy might be dependent on the urban/rural ratio of the states population.

For instance, Colorado's 3 largest cities only constitute about 27% of the state population and the single largest is only about 11%, where as New York's 3 largest cities constitute almost 45% of the population and the single largest is 40% by itself.

Urban areas are less likely to support this kind of thing. For example, take a look at the counties in NY that officially support the SAFE Act.

Brian:

It's been a very long time since I lived in New York (NYC actually). That having been said, correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think New York State has provision for the recall of elected officials. The same would apply to New Jersey, mentioned by another poster.
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Old September 13, 2013, 04:41 PM   #75
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Years ago then Senator John Tunney-D, California complained of people trying to intimidate him. He said "Their intimidation is not subtle-they say "We will vote against you.'"
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