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Old September 9, 2013, 12:42 PM   #1
Lavan
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This did NOT sit well with me.

We were shooting out in the sticks in a legal place that is close to a NO TRESPASSING place.
A cop stopped and was polite and confirmed that where WE were shooting was legal.
In the course of the conversation, he was beginning a lecture on gun safety and I advised him I was pretty aware of that as I was CCW.

He asked to see the CCW.

fine.

But then he asked to see the GUN!

This was NOT comfy at all.

Bringing a loaded handgun out of a pocket in front of a LEO did NOT feel right. I did try to take it out as silly as possible by hooking a finger in the guard and taking it out sorta hanging but I still didn't like the feeling of SHOWING the gun to the officer.

Since it is a Beretta, I flipped the latch in order to not hand him a chambered round and THAT felt dicey.
Manipulating a loaded weapon with a cop standing there just did not sit well.
The only reason I did it is that I don't trust ANYONE to know the way a Beretta opens.

He checked the gun against the CCW (which was okay by me)

I think he should have been satisfied to see the CCW and assume that I was carrying fine since nothing was going off on my person.

Opinions?



Oh, I should add that the ...NEW.... CA CCW requires you to advise ANY officer you have contact with that you are CCW.
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Old September 9, 2013, 12:48 PM   #2
MLeake
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Not knowing your location, I can only make the assumption that you live in one of those states that requires your authorized carry gun(s) to be listed. If so, your permit would only be valid with the specific gun(s), so the officer's response would have been normal.

I like not living in those states.

Edit: I see you added a detail - California.

Hopefully you are a CALGUNS supporter.
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Old September 9, 2013, 12:53 PM   #3
csmsss
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Did this occur on public or private property?
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Old September 9, 2013, 01:17 PM   #4
Lavan
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MLeake, if you were the officer would you really be comfortable checking the gun?

To my way of thinking, it just seems a better idea to assume a CCW is carrying the right gun than to ask him to pull it out.


csmsss.... I'm not sure. It's a really strange area layout. Off the road and unfenced but farther back in I know it's private and fenced. And posted.
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Old September 9, 2013, 01:27 PM   #5
allaroundhunter
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This did NOT sit well with me.

Seeing as the CCW is only good with firearms listed on it then you should have expected the officer to ask for the gun.


.... And I certainly don't see the reason for pulling your gun out with a finger in the trigger guard and letting it hang. If I were the cop I would be concerned that someone with such unsafe habits even has a CCW in the first place.
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Old September 9, 2013, 01:29 PM   #6
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I'm a cop in a very gun-friendly state and when someone tells me that they have a concealed carry permit, I often ask what they carry. Not so much to see the pistol, but because... we're very gun friendly.

"Officer, I have a concealed permit."

Me: "Really? What do you carry? Do you like it?"

I don't know your location, but I don't know why the cop would need to see the pistol, unless there's some local reason to do so. I'm a cop who is also a gun-nut. I'd rather stand on the side of the road and talk about guns, and if I can do that, I'm a happy camper.
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Old September 9, 2013, 01:32 PM   #7
PawPaw
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Quote:
Seeing as the CCW is only good with firearms listed on it then you should have expected the officer to ask for the gun.
Really? In this state, the CCW is good with any handgun. Our permits don't limit you to a particular firearm, or a particular platform.
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Old September 9, 2013, 02:02 PM   #8
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I would have just asked the officer how he wants me to do that, and let him know I just want to do it in a manner he is comfortable with. Do you want to just see it in my holster, or should I hold it downward, hand it to you, or clear it?

Kind of an awkward situation because you got to think he could be on high alert anytime anyone has a weapon drawn in his presence. Or he could be totally at ease and confident you are law abiding and think nothing of it.
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Old September 9, 2013, 02:21 PM   #9
csmsss
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Lavan, I asked whether it was public or private because on private property,

a)the LEO has no particular right to be there and can be asked to leave
b)Assuming you are the owner or have the owner's permission, you can carry a firearm any way you please as long as it isn't threatening another person

To me, one of the essential elements of the situation is whether the LEO even had business to be there. If you were on private property (assuming the property owner's permission, of course), he has no real business being there unless he was invited to be there or if he had probable cause to believe a crime had been committed. And he certainly has no business inquiring about whether you had a CCW or not, or what you were carrying or how.
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Old September 9, 2013, 02:23 PM   #10
Lt. Skrumpledonk Ret
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Where I come from, if a cop is blurring the line between a casual conversation and a detainment; he's fishing for a reason to 'take you downtown'

Then again, in Cali, there is no such thing as an illegal detainment.
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Old September 9, 2013, 02:35 PM   #11
allaroundhunter
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This did NOT sit well with me.

Quote:
Originally Posted by csmsss View Post
Lavan, I asked whether it was public or private because on private property,

b)Assuming you are the owner or have the owner's permission, you can carry a firearm any way you please as long as it isn't threatening another person
Be careful. In Texas, yes. But do you know for a fact that this is true in California?
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Old September 9, 2013, 04:07 PM   #12
csmsss
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Quote:
In Texas, yes. But do you know for a fact that this is true in California?
No, but if it's not true, then Californians have even greater cause for concern than their firearms rights. If a police officer can freely trespass private property without the permission of the owner, then there really is no such abstract as private property is there?
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Old September 9, 2013, 04:20 PM   #13
allaroundhunter
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This did NOT sit well with me.

Quote:
Originally Posted by csmsss View Post
No, but if it's not true, then Californians have even greater cause for concern than their firearms rights. If a police officer can freely trespass private property without the permission of the owner, then there really is no such abstract as private property is there?
That isn't the part that I am concerned with. Yes, they still need a warrant or probably cause. However, I would guess that gunfire and a 911 call saying that people are shooting 'illegally' satisfies the probable cause requirement in California.

The part about being able to carry however that wish is something that I am not sure of, so I was asking if you were. California can define personal property completely differently and can limit how civilians are allowed to carry weapons there. They don't have to define it the same way as other states do.
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Old September 9, 2013, 05:04 PM   #14
Lavan
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Quote:
I would have just asked the officer how he wants me to do that, and let him know I just want to do it in a manner he is comfortable with. Do you want to just see it in my holster, or should I hold it downward, hand it to you, or clear it?

Kind of an awkward situation because you got to think he could be on high alert anytime anyone has a weapon drawn in his presence. Or he could be totally at ease and confident you are law abiding and think nothing of it.
Believe me, I did. When he asked to see the gun, I made SURE by asking if he really wanted me to take it out of my pocket.

He said yes, but I still took it out in as unthreatening a manner as possible because....as I said..... this was not a COMFY situation for me.

I do NOT fumble guns even if I have them by the trigger guard. I could safely pinch the hammer or hold it upside down. I am ...very.... familiar with firearms. Had one since age 7, now 72. And quite a few trophies along the way.

I was simply NOT comfortable with this situation and that's all I'm saying.

Other than if it were ME and I were a cop, I'd rather the citizen just kept his hands off it. That's MY opinion.

We've discussed it and now it's past and I am still not comfortable showing my gun (plus in CA "brandishing" is stressed HEAVILY in all our training and qual courses.)

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Old September 9, 2013, 06:42 PM   #15
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Quote:
Oh, I should add that the ...NEW.... CA CCW requires you to advise ANY officer you have contact with that you are CCW.
There has been no change in California law making this mandatory statewide. Issuing agencies are not prohibited from making their own policies, under the 'reasonable restrictions' of PC 26200 and some agencies do make 'show to police' a requirement.
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Old September 9, 2013, 07:36 PM   #16
Lavan
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It may not be law, but in California, so what?
If it's about guns, it's illegal.

The language is printed on my CCW.


Last edited by Spats McGee; September 11, 2013 at 08:51 AM. Reason: Removing "Kalifornia"
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Old September 9, 2013, 09:06 PM   #17
Shadi Khalil
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Re: This did NOT sit well with me.

Whether it was the law of your land or not, I do not like it for a lot of different reasons.
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Old September 9, 2013, 10:02 PM   #18
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I've had several encounters with law enforcement, and witnessed several encounters, where there was no hidden bureaucratic agenda. The officer was simply a gun nut, and was curious what the person was carrying; wanted to ask if they could check out whatever firearm was already in plain sight; or wanted to verify that the firearm was being carried in accordance with the law (concealed or not).
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Old September 9, 2013, 10:21 PM   #19
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They almost always ask for the gun...some just wanna see it, others want to know where its at while they're there...depends on the location, I'm a truck driver...I get around.
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Old September 10, 2013, 03:36 AM   #20
dakota.potts
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"b)Assuming you are the owner or have the owner's permission, you can carry a firearm any way you please as long as it isn't threatening another person"

Be careful with this. In Florida, you CANNOT give another person the right to conceal or open carry on your property. It has to be your home or place of business or property. There are exceptions like hunting, fishing, target shooting, taking the gun for repairs, testing for a gun company, etc. but in general you can't say "Oh, yeah man, it's good to open carry on my 100 acre plot of land where nobody will ever see us"
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Old September 10, 2013, 06:53 AM   #21
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In NYS all your hand guns have to be listed on your permit. Here it would be common place for the officer to ask to see your permit and the gun you are carrying so he can match it with your permit. It is illegal to possess a hand gun that is not listed on your permit. When you buy a hand gun from a gun shop or private seller you have to take the bill of sale with all the information to the county clerks office and have the gun added to your permit and then go back to the gun shop or private seller and pickup the gun.
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Old September 10, 2013, 12:20 PM   #22
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And some cops just like checking out guns for much the same reason we do I got pulled over once because a cop liked my car and wanted to ask questions about it.
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Old September 10, 2013, 09:02 PM   #23
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This is why I love shooting outdoors on the family land in Wisconsin; every now and then one of the Chicago Carpet-Bagger neighbors calls the cops but whenever the locals have come out they are cool; never ask to see the firearms only my DL. The nicer officers I invite to join me into letting a few rounds go at my little outdoor shooting area but so far no takers.

I really don't know the WI laws in regards to a LEO's rights on your property but I have been wearing my P226 in an OWB a couple of times when they sort of snuck up on me (The driveway is not visible from the area where I shoot and the road is hidden behind trees and other greenery). The LEO didn't even blink and I just made sure to keep my hand away from my holster.


This was obviously private land and after it was established that I am related to the owner though.
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Old September 11, 2013, 06:15 AM   #24
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Quote:
But then he asked to see the GUN!

This was NOT comfy at all.

Bringing a loaded handgun out of a pocket in front of a LEO did NOT feel right. I did try to take it out as silly as possible by hooking a finger in the guard and taking it out sorta hanging but I still didn't like the feeling of SHOWING the gun to the officer.

Since it is a Beretta, I flipped the latch in order to not hand him a chambered round and THAT felt dicey.
Manipulating a loaded weapon with a cop standing there just did not sit well.
The only reason I did it is that I don't trust ANYONE to know the way a Beretta opens.

He checked the gun against the CCW (which was okay by me)

I think he should have been satisfied to see the CCW and assume that I was carrying fine since nothing was going off on my person.

Opinions?

Quote:
I was simply NOT comfortable with this situation and that's all I'm saying.

Other than if it were ME and I were a cop, I'd rather the citizen just kept his hands off it. That's MY opinion.

We've discussed it and now it's past and I am still not comfortable showing my gun (plus in CA "brandishing" is stressed HEAVILY in all our training and qual courses.)
Or maybe the cop should have assumed you were NOT carrying the correct weapon and put you in handcuffs "for your own safety" and disarmed you via a search.

There is no way under the law that "brandishing" is an issue when an officer of the law with appropriate legal authority has made a lawful request to see your firearm. You might want to look up your specific laws on brandishing so that you will understand what does and does not constitute brandishing.

You have your permit, so you know that you are obligated to do these things. It is too bad that you don't like it, but what it is that you like or are comfortable with isn't what you agreed to when you applied for and received your permit. You agreed to abide by the law for carrying the gun listed on the permit and agreed to let that gun be verified by LEOs along with a whole passel of regulations.

By all accounts you have given, the officer treated you with respect and was professional.

Quote:
In the course of the conversation, he was beginning a lecture on gun safety and I advised him I was pretty aware of that as I was CCW.
Well there's your problem.
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Old September 11, 2013, 06:55 AM   #25
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"b)Assuming you are the owner or have the owner's permission, you can carry a firearm any way you please as long as it isn't threatening another person"

Be careful with this. In Florida, you CANNOT give another person the right to conceal or open carry on your property. It has to be your home or place of business or property. There are exceptions like hunting, fishing, target shooting, taking the gun for repairs, testing for a gun company, etc. but in general you can't say "Oh, yeah man, it's good to open carry on my 100 acre plot of land where nobody will ever see us"


dakota.potts
Who told you that about Florida law? I have been a deputy for six years in the southwest part of the state never heard that one. If you could tell me what statute that's under I would appreciate it. I know around here if you have written permission to be on their property if you’re armed or not is up to that person whose property you’re on. This almost always involves hunting. But have never made an arrest if they have permission.
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