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Old September 10, 2013, 03:06 PM   #26
manta49
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Maybe there is a different mindset in America. As you can't describe what made you see him as threatening its hard to make a judgment.
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Old September 10, 2013, 03:08 PM   #27
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People take profiling the wrong way. For some reason it's a very delicate topic and is always misunderstood.

Why do you feel you always have to point out the differences in America?


We're all people.




EDIT: However in Vermonter's case, I am not saying he was. Not my place to. I wasn't there. I didn't see or feel what his third eye did. Just responding to "manta49".
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Old September 10, 2013, 03:37 PM   #28
manta49
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Quote:
Why do you feel you always have to point out the differences in America?


We're all people
Just because someone approaching me unless there was something that made me think they were a threat. They were drunk and aggressive or coming at me fast for no reason for example. If they were just coming towards me asking a question them being a treat wouldn't occur to me. Maybe its because gun crime is a lot lower here, if it was higher maybe I would think differently.
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Old September 10, 2013, 03:53 PM   #29
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If any of you are a Schwarzenegger fan and watched 'Judgment Day', remember when the Terminator said, "Negative. The T-1000 will definitely try to reacquire you there."

And John Connor says, "You sure?"

The Terminator says, "I would."

Well thieves know where guns are banned and except for a few idiots they will go to places were they know you are unarmed.

And at gun shows they know you are both unarmed and maybe have a unloaded gun with you.

Same for gun ranges were there are no other people there (The Miami Shootout gunmen got some of their guns going to impromptu gun ranges and murdering the other people there, taking their guns and cars.)

Cause, you see, if I was a bad guy and wanted a gun, well that is where I'd go!

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Old September 10, 2013, 03:57 PM   #30
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It's well researched that criminals have a sense of who will be a good victim. Based on gait, alertness, manner.

I don't think it unreasonable that a good person cannot have the same feel for a bad person based on similar factors.
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Old September 10, 2013, 04:03 PM   #31
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Those calling into question his choice of response are missing the big picture.

The hair on his neck was standing up, this guy was giving him the creeps not once, but twice. It doesn't matter what the description is. If that 6th sense is giving you alarm bells, you need to pay attention to it!

The fact he continued to advance after being told to stop is emphasis to that point.
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Old September 10, 2013, 05:28 PM   #32
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If that 6th sense is giving you alarm bells, you need to pay attention to it!
Exactly right.
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Old September 10, 2013, 07:56 PM   #33
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6th sense

It was more like 12th sense twice so i guess that is 24. Both her and I felt it not once but twice. She drew her spray without a single word from me. The only instruction I gave was "get to the car fast. I matched her speed and there was no further confrontation.

I had an email convo with the promoter by the way. He assured me that there was security at the event and I didn't see them on purpose. He said they had been sweeping the parking lots but this must have been missed.

Some of you know that I deal with the public at large professionally. I deal with over 100k people a year professionally. Chances are more than a few of them were unsavory characters of some variety if you believe in statistics.

Bottom line is this guy makes my top 10 most creeped out ever list. I am trying to be a gentleman with regard to appearances.
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Old September 10, 2013, 08:52 PM   #34
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It's like a bloodhound. Something just doesn't smell right.
It's in the way they do things as they approach.
But I think also it's a parking lot. At a gun show. What would be the purpose in socializing there?
Why not socialize in line to get in? Or in the coffee bar area? Or in the open arena?
Why try to get alone with them out in the parking lot?
And, if he knew what gun they bought ... he was tailing them, wasn't he?
Without seeing the guy, just from this distance, something doesn't smell right to me.
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Old September 10, 2013, 09:00 PM   #35
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Willy said
Quote:
Outside public gunshows can be sketchy places. One more reason I don't go to public gunshows anymore.
I never considered it before, but it sees like many to most of the public gun shows are in sketchy parts of town. Is that maybe because the venues are cheaper?
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Old September 11, 2013, 03:02 AM   #36
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Probably so.

It is probably for the same reasons as why many airports lie next to sewage treatment plants. Cheaper land, fewer complaining neighbors, and zoning restrictions.
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Old September 11, 2013, 09:59 AM   #37
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In America it is considered bad form (violation of social norms) for someone to yell, "hey! you got a new Glock don't you" and proceed to jump out of the truck and advance. In America this is the "interview" prior to an assault and robbery. What is the alternate narrative to this story? The guy was a gunsmith offering his services in a parking lot? The guy was a hardcore Glock fan and even after fondling all the Glocks at the gun show he needed more feel-time in the parking lot? The guy was ATF and was checking to ensure a gun lock was sold with the firearm?

How did the guy know the OP purchased a Glock?
The OP said the alleged perp was was leaving the show when the OP was walking in. Why was the perp hanging out in the lot?
A stranger leaving their vehicle to approach someone in a parking lot isn't in and of itself odd?

Next time, S&W 442 in a pocket holster

Glad the OP had knife and spray.

Quote:
Originally Posted by manta49
Maybe there is a different mindset in America. As you can't describe what made you see him as threatening its hard to make a judgment.
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Old September 11, 2013, 10:19 AM   #38
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Maybe there is a different mindset in America. As you can't describe what made you see him as threatening its hard to make a judgment.
I fail to see how this happening in America warrants the generalization that Americans are somewhat paranoid or overly cautious for being wary of a stranger rapidly approaching them in a parking lot, yelling to them about a gun they just purchased as if that's acceptable. If that's what you were getting at, how would you like if I made a generalization from your comment saying, "maybe there's a different mindset in Ireland, where the Irish are too overly trusting and lack proper situational awareness or common sense". See how stupid that sounds. I don't care what country you are in, people are all wired the same way. To make blanket statements like yours is just ignorant.

If the guy was that interested in Glock's, go inside and ask a dealer. It's not in the norm to yell across a parking lot to a random stranger about their recent gun purchase. People I know far better than strangers on the street don't even know I own firearms, why am I going to discuss it with some random stranger, especially while I am unarmed and holding my recent unloaded gun I just purchased.

Last edited by Dragline45; September 11, 2013 at 12:01 PM.
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Old September 11, 2013, 11:34 AM   #39
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That 6th sense...

... is a natural warning our physical systems have developed over eons. It's wise not to ignore it when it alarms.
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Old September 11, 2013, 12:41 PM   #40
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Similar happened to my Dad

Similar happened to my Dad a few years back. Coming out from a gun show and walking to his car three guys got on him and pushed him to the ground trying to grab his wallet. His pants held and they could not get it out before some onlookers began to yell. The bandits fled in their car with not getting the wallet. Seems that gun shows are a bit dangerous because bandits expect people may have money or guns to take.

Best bet is to wait to see you are not alone and that other people in the parking lot look safe, and have your car keys in hand.

Yes, the very best is to have your other hand near your carry.

Buck

Last edited by michiganbuck; September 11, 2013 at 12:51 PM.
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Old September 11, 2013, 02:29 PM   #41
manta49
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Quote:
I fail to see how this happening in America warrants the generalization that Americans are somewhat paranoid or overly cautious for being wary of a stranger rapidly approaching them in a parking lot
Because I can only go on life experience and its not a reaction I have witnessed here. I would have thought if someone was going to attack or rob someone they wouldn't advertise it first.

Quote:
generalization from your comment saying, "maybe there's a different mindset in Ireland, where the Irish
I wasnt making a generalization I was asking a question to try and understand the reaction. PS I live in N Ireland so can only base my opinion on what I see in N Ireland not the Republic of Ireland that has different laws regarding firearms etc. As for mindset mine is I have survived 50 years without being attacked so the odds are very low, so the last thing when I go out is being attacked. There are a lot of other things in life that are more likely to get people killed.

Last edited by manta49; September 11, 2013 at 02:34 PM.
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Old September 11, 2013, 02:39 PM   #42
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I don’t carry but..

I don’t carry but I am glad that many do. That makes it safer for everybody because the crooks, murders and thieves are a little less bold when they know some honest people also might have a gun.

About all one can do is protect yourself, your family and your property,
seem like the rest is up for grabs.


Buck

Last edited by michiganbuck; September 11, 2013 at 02:47 PM. Reason: added last sentence.
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Old September 11, 2013, 02:42 PM   #43
Dragline45
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As for mindset mine is I have survived 50 years without being attacked so the odds are very low, so the last thing when I go out is being attacked. There are a lot of other things in life that are more likely to get people killed.
Odds don't mean a thing. The odds that two terrorists,the two Boston Marathon bombers, would have come to my hometown and shot it out with police while throwing IED's in the street just a couple blocks away from my home would have been pretty low if it didn't just happen last April. If you would have asked me before it happened if I had ever thought that two terrorists would turn my hometown into a warzone I would have told you that you were crazy, but it did indeed happen. That incident opened my eyes up to the fact that anything can happen anywhere.
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Old September 11, 2013, 03:17 PM   #44
manta49
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If you would have asked me before it happened if I had ever thought that two terrorists would turn my hometown into a warzone I would have told you that you were crazy, but it did indeed happen. That incident opened my eyes up to the fact that anything can happen anywhere
Terrorism isn't new to the people here I have seen bombs going off shootings and other terrorists attacks over the last 30 years. But I still know that odds are very low of getting caught in an incident or attack. Most go about their business unarmed and not concerned about being attacked. That's why I said there seems to be a different mind set in America and I am trying to figure out why.
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Old September 11, 2013, 03:18 PM   #45
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Because I can only go on life experience and its not a reaction I have witnessed here. I would have thought if someone was going to attack or rob someone they wouldn't advertise it first.

This happens quite frequently. The predator often sizes up the potential prey first and tries to close the distance with a verbal distraction. Imagine coming out of a jewelry store with your wife or girlfriend and a guy in a parking garage bellowing: "Hey man, that's a new Rolex you got there?!!!"

Let's also keep in mind that the US is a very large country with a large and diverse population (313 million+), many huge urban centers and 50 distinctly different states. It's not really a logical comparison to Northern Ireland.
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Old September 11, 2013, 03:34 PM   #46
manta49
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Quote:
This happens quite frequently. The predator often sizes up the potential prey first and tries to close the distance with a verbal distraction. Imagine coming out of a jewelry store with your wife or girlfriend and a guy in a parking garage bellowing: "Hey man, that's a new Rolex you got there?!!!"
Fair enough would it not be easier to approach them from behind for example not drawing attention to themselves. That way the if the person was armed they would have less chance to react. I know that all possible attackers are not the smartest but I am sure they are not all stupid as well.
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Old September 11, 2013, 03:40 PM   #47
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manta49, did you see (or read) The Girl with the Dragon Tattoo?

If so, recall the scene where the intrepid reporter enters the house of his murder suspect, because he is socialized not to be so rude as to refuse the invitation.

Muggers often start with a talkative approach, figuring (apparently) that a person too timid to refuse a conversation will also be too timid to resist the subsequent robbery.

Such an approach also allows the mugger to abort the mugging, and claim he was just talking, or panhandling.
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Old September 11, 2013, 03:54 PM   #48
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watching at special events.

I went to a special event a few weeks ago. I won’t mention its name because I don’t want to draw and bad guy’s attention. This year there were hummers cruising around and some GIs with guns ready watching out for any people who did not fit the right profile.

Buck
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Old September 11, 2013, 04:30 PM   #49
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I know that all possible attackers are not the smartest but I am sure they are not all stupid as well.

Most aren't very bright but violence comes in many forms. A friend of mine was robbed at knife-point some years ago while delivering pizzas. The guy just walked up to him, stuck the blade up against his stomach and said "give me the money and the pie, holmes". Sounds almost funny now.
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Old September 11, 2013, 04:35 PM   #50
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And at gun shows they know you are both unarmed and maybe have a unloaded gun with you.

Same for gun ranges were there are no other people there (The Miami Shootout gunmen got some of their guns going to impromptu gun ranges and murdering the other people there, taking their guns and cars.)
I unload my gun upon entering the building and load it again as soon as I'm outside. When I to to the range, I slip a full mag of SD ammo into my pistol, or load my revolver, before leaving the range.

Quote:
His truck was flashy as well
22" rims on his hooptie?

Last edited by Revoltella; September 11, 2013 at 04:40 PM.
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