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Old September 9, 2013, 09:08 AM   #1
Vermonter
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This happened to me Yesterday

The fiance' and I went to the local gun show yesterday to trade a gun. It is well known at this show that there are no loaded weapons allowed inside including CCW firearms. If you are trading a firearm or selling it it must go through the door in a case and it must be safety checked prior to entry. With this prior knowledge we decided to only carry one firearm to the show and lock it in the vehicle (to limit the amount of possible theft from the vehicle).

We got exactly what we wanted at the show and traded the firearm we came with for a Glock 26 Gen 4. This resulted in a very short walk from the show to our car where my ccw was locked up. We were walking from the show to our car when we were approached. The man approaching us was instantly familiar to me because he had been walking out of the show when we were walking in and his appearance was uncommon with the rest of the enthusiasts and sportsman in the group. He raised the hairs on my neck the first time I saw him and the second time was no different.

He yelled from his truck "hey you got a new Glock don't ya" and then proceed to jump out and start moving briskly in our direction. I sternly said in what would be referred to as a command voice "That is far enough we are all set!" While yelling that I placed my right hand up making the universal stop sign with my flat palm. With my left hand I reached to where my ccw would be and realized I was uncharacteristically unarmed. I was not planning to draw simply index my firearm. He was on my right side and would not have seen my firearm. At this point he proceded to move in our direction and said which "one did ya get?" I replied with "Back UP!" and indexed my knife which was in my left pocket and stepped in front of my fiance' telling her to move to the car fast. At this time I saw his demeanor change and he looked frightened. At this point I realized he had seen my fiance' with her mace. She keeps it on her key chain and always has her keys in her hand while walking to her car.

He did not like what he saw while we were moving briskly to our car he was in his truck and out of the area.

All in all this went fantastically. We were both without a loaded firearm which is rare. We both went for our secondary weapons and both worked together to get to safety quickly. I am proud of her for her handling of the situation and proud of myself as well. I just wanted to share as this might help someone and someone here might point something out to me that I could do better if there is a next time.

Regards, Vermonter
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Old September 9, 2013, 10:02 AM   #2
David13
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There is no question that thieves will go to areas like gun shows. I haven't seen any reports of robberies at gun shows.
But, there have been many reports of people being robbed on the way into, and the way out of gun ranges.
So it requires situational awareness.
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Old September 9, 2013, 10:21 AM   #3
Constantine
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Good write up on your part and good read for me. Thanks for sharing. I've had similar incidents as well. I might make a thread on the one that happened this weekend with me.
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Old September 9, 2013, 10:56 AM   #4
Willie Lowman
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Outside public gunshows can be sketchy places. One more reason I don't go to public gunshows anymore.
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Old September 9, 2013, 11:05 AM   #5
Vermonter
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Don't Go Anymore

Willie,
I think not going to gun shows might be the best practice. I was struck inside by the lack of any LE presence. There were two people in Khaki pants one female and one male who were wearing shirts that said ATF. These were polo and they had official looking lanyards with IDs. I was struck first because I was expecting the shirts to say BATFE not ATF. I was also struck because they were unarmed. No IWB holsters, tucked in shirts, no bulges in the pockets etc. Unless their guns were in ankle holsters the ATF folks were unarmed.

None of the vendors were obviously carrying either. Therefore with no obvious security presence and everyone being unarmed it did make a somewhat soft target with very desirable goods.

Regards, Vermonter
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Old September 9, 2013, 08:42 PM   #6
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If I'm selling as a "walk in", I try to take a second person to either hold my goods/cash while I retrieve my vehicle or carry gun or they get car and pick me up at/near the door. The last time I went alone but bumped into a friend while there who also didn't like the prospect of walking across the parking lot with his arms full of plunder. He held all our stuff at the door while I walked to my vehicle and returned with a backpack and my carry gun. Then we both walked to his car.
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Old September 9, 2013, 09:32 PM   #7
Lost Sheep
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Secong-guessing here,

Did you report the event to the show's promoters?


1) This might not have been his first attempt

2) Several such reports might induce the promoters to give some thought to enhanced security in the show's parking areas

3) A description (and license plate) might have resulted in an arrest and prevention of a serious crime.

Things to think about at your next encounter. There is more to personal security than your own carry weapon(s).

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Old September 9, 2013, 09:56 PM   #8
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Lost Sheep

I did give a description to the local SO because I saw a deputy down the road just a bit. He stated that he would follow up if he needed something further. I have not described the encounter to the promoter. I will search them out and do so.

I was able to give a very good description as he really stood out. His truck was flashy as well and I had a partial plate. Base on the amount of time that has lapsed I would figure they never made contact.
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Old September 9, 2013, 10:46 PM   #9
Arizona Fusilier
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Thanks for sharing. It sounds like you did well.

Getting jacked at a gun show never occurred to me. I won't abstain, but I will stay on high alert from now on.
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Old September 10, 2013, 02:07 AM   #10
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Wow, a guy who "dressed different" who may be interested in the new glocks warranted that kind of reaction. Where I come from people talk to strangers in gun show parking lots all the time, and we dont all look the same either.

Sounds a little like an over reaction to me.
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Old September 10, 2013, 03:26 AM   #11
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ljnowell, it occurs me that there's a lot more intuition than can be properly described over internet text. It can be hard to describe what sets you off. The best we can come up with after the fact is sometimes "That guys looks a little funny" or "is acting a little strange" but you definitely know something's up. You would do well to listen when that happens. The human brain is an amazing inference machine and our subconscious scanning will catch many things that just don't sit right which our conscious brain can't quite explain.

I would give the OP the benefit of the doubt and assume that his gait, his eye movement, and general body positioning said more about the man than the fact that he dressed a little strange and had an interest in his Glock. Those are just the things we tend to remember after the fact.
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Old September 10, 2013, 06:49 AM   #12
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Ljnowell

I hear you I am best describing him as not to offend here. That alone would not have set me off. The fact that he left his truck to approach me and continued to come after I made it clear to stop were more than enough for me.

I would have talked from a safe distance. But keep in mind he also gave me the creeps passing him while he was on the way out of the show. My gut tells me he was denied a sale in the show and was looking to score outside. Even his voice sounded desperate and a bit off.

His appearance was only my first of many clues.
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Old September 10, 2013, 08:15 AM   #13
9ballbilly
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Certainly food for thought. I've only attended one show in the last year and never gave a thought to the rule against CCW while attending the show (left mine locked in the truck), it really does present a "soft" target opportunity for potential attackers while entering or exiting. Thanks for sharing.
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Old September 10, 2013, 09:23 AM   #14
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All the gun shows I have been to in my area have had armed security both inside and outside the bldg. If you request they will even escort you to your vehicle. You can have a CCW but you have to unload it when you enter, they have a bullet proof enclosure to point the gun in while you unload it. Then they put a lock tie on it and remove it when you leave, you can load it again as soon as you step out of the bldg before walking to your vehicle. Myself I prefer this to leaving my gun locked in my vehicle.
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Old September 10, 2013, 09:52 AM   #15
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Quote:
All the gun shows I have been to in my area have had armed security both inside and outside the bldg. If you request they will even escort you to your vehicle. You can have a CCW but you have to unload it when you enter, they have a bullet proof enclosure to point the gun in while you unload it. Then they put a lock tie on it and remove it when you leave, you can load it again as soon as you step out of the bldg before walking to your vehicle. Myself I prefer this to leaving my gun locked in my vehicle.
This.

In my area we have armed LEO walking about inside and outside. In uniform and in patrol cars out front.
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Old September 10, 2013, 10:31 AM   #16
Vermonter
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Light Security

I suppose this goes with the "it'll never happen here mindset". After all it is Vermont what bad could happen here? Based on knowing how things work in other areas I am going to find the promoter.

Regards, Vermonter
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Old September 10, 2013, 11:58 AM   #17
Brian Pfleuger
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dakota.potts
...it occurs me that there's a lot more intuition than can be properly described over internet text. It can be hard to describe what sets you off. The best we can come up with after the fact is sometimes "That guys looks a little funny" or "is acting a little strange" but you definitely know something's up. You would do well to listen when that happens. The human brain is an amazing inference machine and our subconscious scanning will catch many things that just don't sit right which our conscious brain can't quite explain.

I would give the OP the benefit of the doubt and assume that his gait, his eye movement, and general body positioning said more about the man than the fact that he dressed a little strange and had an interest in his Glock. Those are just the things we tend to remember after the fact.
Well said, sir.
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Old September 10, 2013, 12:29 PM   #18
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Wow, a guy who "dressed different" who may be interested in the new glocks warranted that kind of reaction. Where I come from people talk to strangers in gun show parking lots all the time, and we dont all look the same either.

Sounds a little like an over reaction to me.
Agreed, of fantastic proportions. Can you imagine wanting to ask a question about a firearm at a gun show and having the folks start defensive/evasive maneuvers on you?
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Old September 10, 2013, 12:50 PM   #19
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FWIW, federal LE jackets and tees usually just say "ATF" (not "BATFE") or "FBI" or "DEA" for quick recognition. But clothing marked that way can be bought by anyone, so if there is a need for identification, don't take what a jacket says as identification, request the person show a badge and credentials. Any legitimate LEO will do so with no questions.

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Old September 10, 2013, 12:52 PM   #20
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There is some difference between "at the gun show" and "in the parking lot, away from others."

My hackles might have been up, too.
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Old September 10, 2013, 01:00 PM   #21
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It wouldn't have being my reaction I would have just wondered what he was looking.
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Old September 10, 2013, 01:52 PM   #22
Vermonter
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Had to be there

I suppose you had to be there. I am not going to articulate what about his appearance made him out of place. Doing so will surely get me an infraction and it does not matter. Were you there and someone you loved next to you you should have been feeling the way I was. I did not discuss his appearance because it is a bit classless to do so in detail and it is not germane to the conversation of the tactics we used in order to avoid a further conflict.

Before anyone else says it we are not talking race or ethnicity here because he and I were both white males so that is not the issue.

This seems to have been missed so I am going to re type it once more

I ASKED THAT HE STOP ADVANCING ON US AND HE DID NOT UNTIL HE SAW PEPPER SPRAY.
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Old September 10, 2013, 02:12 PM   #23
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Alright, Vermonter..I agree 100% with your actions. I feel you don't need to justify anything any further to anyone. You did well. Welcome to 2013 people, this is the new world we live in.

The guy didn't jump out of the car to ask him questions about religion or cupcakes. He asked him about a gun. Vermonter's third eye gave him a sense, and he went with it. That's a reason why most of us are even alive today.
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Old September 10, 2013, 02:36 PM   #24
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I agree that our OP did well. I've also seen sketchy folks approach folks on the way in to try to buy guns for cash at a price above what you could get in the show.

Wonder why they would do that? A friend sold a Sigma to one such guy and was chortling about the price. I reminded him that the serial number would lead back to him.

I see no good in such approaches - robbery or a gun off the books by a potentially bad person.

Carrying an OC by a male is also a good idea. Men are resistant to them as not manly. But pros carry them.
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Old September 10, 2013, 02:43 PM   #25
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Carrying an OC by a male is also a good idea. Men are resistant to them as not manly. But pros carry them.
Exactly. I've armed my significant other with OC spray for the time being. I wouldn't call myself a pro, but I have carried OC spray for a while. Haven't much lately, it remains in my car. I had an incident at my uncles old night club where the person didn't deserve anything other than the following: a tase, OC spray, or submissive hold. Unfortunately we didn't have either of those tools accessible, so we had to put him down the harder way until the on duty LE arrived..Then they had to tase him. I know, long story. One word, alcohol.

That said, one needs to know how to use mace. I've gotten maced before (willingly) and it's horrible. If someone just gets maced and is still fighting and you're forced to fight with them..you will feel the effects of the mace if you come in contact with it.

No plan is 100% correct, some are just a little better than others and we don't know what until after the fact. That's just life.
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