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Old September 6, 2013, 09:54 AM   #26
Louca
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Well, the 1911 isn't completely worthless, but there's about as much of a chance of me buying a Canon A1 35mm camera as there is of me buying another 1911
Not sure what you are saying here. When you say the 1911 isn't "completely worthless" are you implying it is sort of worthless, or mostly worthless, or what? Or, are you saying you would not need to buy another 1911 because it has not changed significantly in design and therefore you don't need to buy another one? Or are you saying you are so satisfied with a 1911 you cannot imagine ever needing to replace it?

One big difference in your comparison is that if you buy a Canon A1, you will NOT (practically speaking) be able to use it, whereas buying any 1911 old or new that works properly can be used.

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Old September 6, 2013, 09:59 AM   #27
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I think the primary difference is price. What manufacturer you go to pretty much determines how much you're going to spend. Some companies aren't so much offering a 'better' pistol, they're offering a more 'affordable' one. I know a lot of people feel the market could be stripped down to Dan Wesson and Les Baer, but not everyone can afford to buy a $3K pistol. And if we did, not all of us would want to carry one, because the minute it got a scratch or ding, it would be a bad day.

Healthy competition also usually breeds better results. If someone wants to compete in the 1911, AR15, striker-fired polymer, etc. dept., they really have to bring something good to table to complete with the current market. Though Hi-Points still sell, so who knows.
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Old September 6, 2013, 10:05 AM   #28
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changeing the stippling pattern doesnt create a new gun. it just creates a different stippling pattern.
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Old September 6, 2013, 11:05 AM   #29
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Not sure what you are saying here. When you say the 1911 isn't "completely worthless" are you implying it is sort of worthless, or mostly worthless, or what?
Let me clarify - the 1911 is a good design and there are many good 1911's already out there - no, they are not worthless. But, manufacturers pimping their "new and improved"..."latest and greatest" version of a 1911 are worthless. There simply is nothing special about all of the 1911's currently being produced. It's old technology, like my Canon A1 (probably not the best analogy), but its not obsolete. For example, why did Sig feel compelled to make a 1911? They already have a platform that works equally as well, if not better than their $1,000+ 1911. So, whats the point?

Think about it this way, when the patent runs out on the Glock, how many manufactures do you need making Glock 17's? How excited will you be about Colt, Remington, Springfield, IMI, Taurus, Beretta, making a Glock 17?
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Old September 6, 2013, 11:23 AM   #30
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The more, the merrier. Nothing wrong with having a lot of variants to choose from.
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Old September 6, 2013, 11:28 AM   #31
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When any company announces a new 1911, it has about as much impact on my daily life as a news report that Joe from 3 towns over likes to grow carrots in his garden. I'm completely indifferent.
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Old September 6, 2013, 11:41 AM   #32
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Huge difference in the design and technology.

Its an old design, but its not old technology going into it, latest materials and production methods.

How much improvement there is is a serious question. One article I read had 3.5 inch accuracy at 25 yds (average, some groups were better, some were worse but none were good) but for a $3200 gun, it should have shot 1 hole groups.

Its called a bandwagon. It sells, more jump in until the market is saturated and then they start to die off. Looks like there is no current limit though.

I do love the gun and design, but I think at this point its relegated to target use rather than carry as the DA/SA is a better carry with higher capacity. Target use assumes they can get it to shoot a 1.5 inch group of course and apparently even thats difficult to impossible for some!

Various gun smiths and armorers could get it to 1.5 inch groups so in some cases the price is all about appearance and crap work in the innards where it counts. Sad and pathetic (and for writers to not call it that is worse but expected these days)
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Old September 6, 2013, 11:51 AM   #33
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I kindof agree. however there are 3 1911s that I am interested in.
1. the ruger SR1911. why? because it's the first time Ruger has made them and actually put their name on them. I like Ruger as a brand and they have really stepped their game up in the last 5 years.

2. the RIA 1911A2. why? even though early experience with RIAs gave me an unfair bias against 1911s that took a few days with higher quality guns to see through, the 1911A2 offers 2 different calibers in one gun. the 22TCM is still in it's infancy and similar to the FN5.7 both ballistically and in the fact that ammo is very scarce and will be until companies like ATK get their hands on it and can produce en mass. however I think armscor was very smart when they offered their 1911A2s with the 22TCM and a replacement 9mm barrel so that you could practice with cheaper, easier to get ahold of 9mm.

and lastly the Rock River Arms 1911. why? because it's a polymer framed gun. they are doing something that none of the other guys are doing. I am hoping that the cheaper production process will mean that the RRA will be a nice budget brand type offering. nobody will know until an MSRP is listed but I remain hopeful.
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Old September 6, 2013, 12:24 PM   #34
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I think they're mostly pretty pointless, but to each his own.
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Old September 6, 2013, 12:39 PM   #35
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There's obviously significant market demand for this pistol pattern, else the manufacturers wouldn't all be jumping in. Creating/buying the tooling for the manufacture of an all-metal pistol isn't a trivial endeavor or expense.

Whether you like the 1911 or not, there is obviously a healthy market for them. And the more companies manufacturing them, the better for competition which can only mean a) better products at b) a lower price.
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Old September 6, 2013, 12:55 PM   #36
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Another no.
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Old September 6, 2013, 01:26 PM   #37
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1911s the muscle cars of firearms

Some of the NEWER cheaper-end $500-700 1911s have more features and better performance/slide fit/finish than my COLTS. So it depends on if your sick of seeing the same options on different manufactures.But there is a market for KIA and a market for Ferrari. The new 1911 green Zombie craze made millions of dollars, so if there is a potential buyer your going to see a manufacturer build it regardless if we have "been there done that" or think its mall ninja garbage.

Im generation X ,born in the 1970s, i love 1911s but i like progression of the firearms industry as well such as the Glock.. If your not a 1911 purist then you maybe a potential 9mm 1911 buyer or a .22 1911 conversion to get a youngster or a newbie into the sport without being intimidated by a .45.
There isnt a best 1911 because you can argue...les baer vs Nighthawk or bob marvel customs vs S.V.I./S.T.I. Customs etc.

1911s are an individual preference based on experience,ability and how big your wallet is.

I run/e.d.c. glocks but own more 1911s.

im impressed with some of the NEW "cheaper" S.A.M. 1911s to be honest. I think if you dont have a James yeager attitude towards lowend glocks and your not competing in IDPA or work as a P.S.C. etc, you can buy and be very happy with an IVER JOHNSON for $550 new/STI SPARTAN is nice value as well, or save a couple hundred more to get a used COLT or kimber if your a "label whore" (i own all of them so i can say it









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Old September 6, 2013, 01:43 PM   #38
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Here's one you don't see everyday - it's an Iver Johnson.

[IMG][/IMG]
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Old September 6, 2013, 01:52 PM   #39
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ZOMBIE IVER

I mentioned that ZOMBIE 1911 in my prior post , but its the same 1911 as my Iver eagle with rail $50 option with zombie graphics but its near $8-900!! after the ZOMBIE APOCALYPSE ended in Orlando Florida, the craze fizzled out right about when Hornady came out with the Z-max ammo and plastic Zombie ammo crate. My misses wanted that IVER but for resale i decided against it because they made alot. If they made under 1,000 i would have bought one and kept it in the safe.
The graphics on the stocks are cool, they should have got with the "Walking dead" show and made a limited series i bet it wouldve done better. I see on gunbroker they are still at around $800 so you never know maybe collectable someday...

Is that your personal firearm you bought or a stock photo?
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Old September 6, 2013, 03:41 PM   #40
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The more the merrier.
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Old September 6, 2013, 05:21 PM   #41
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Agreed

The more the better? What does the misses say about that? Im lucky when i buy one she wants one so its a win-win for me. Shes partial to her glock but she has been dry firing the IVER JOHNSON so all hope isnt lost getting her to run a 1911 for one competition. She watched all those "1911s" suck videos on youtube and i think james yeager brainwashed her a bit
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Old September 6, 2013, 06:56 PM   #42
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I'm just confused by all the new manufacturer's names that I don't recognize.
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Old September 6, 2013, 08:08 PM   #43
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Iver johnson

Im telling you as a competitor and someone who carries a firearm for their job.
Forget the other brands, norinco,taurus,sig,ruger,Rock island,Smith, they wont have the performance,reliability and fit/finish of the IVER JOHNSON,let alone be at the price NEW $575 with a tact-rail!

Take 10min call IVER JOHNSON, ask for CHAD thats the guy i spoke with, he is cool as hell, ask him why are their 1911s better than armscor or other 1911s for the price. Then compare with the other brands, and ask yourself what am i getting besides the name? Kimber, what does a Kimber do that this Iver doesnt,and fit and finish is tighter on the IVER, i dont even understand how they sell these for only $575..best kept secret, im actually going to stop telling everyone because all my friends bought them and now people are starting to finally call bull card on alot of these custom 1911 builders.
You can always swap out MIM small parts and customize an IVER. Wilson combat and NIGHTHAWK are nice, real nice, but $3500-$4000 nice? $575 plus hand made titanium aviation grade CNC parts replacing every pin/spring in an IVER still wouldnt cost you $2500..right?

You cant buy a used chinese p.o.s. 1911 for $500 and add all the extended parts,serrations,adjustable sights for what an IVER will be ready to run out of the box..buy one used off gunbroker for $400-500 it and then resell and buy a new one for $575-600 and just keep it because you wont need another 1911


VS

USED COLT MKIV $850-900


MY USED colt with half features of my IVER
$1400


Last edited by Spats McGee; September 8, 2013 at 07:26 AM. Reason: Removing asterisks/profanity
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Old September 6, 2013, 08:57 PM   #44
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Not a 1911 guy. Don't really care for them, or about them. However, I certainly don't mind all of the 1911 clones, etc. Lots of people like 1911s - more options for them. That's a good thing.
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Old September 6, 2013, 09:38 PM   #45
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Kimbers arent a great gun to judge anything by.
And buying overpriced used colts isnt a great measurement of quality either.

Iver Johnson might make a nice gun but you can't get something for nothing. at the end of the day there is a difference between a 500 dollar 1911 and a 3k 1911 if you can't tell or care the differences the 500 dollar gun is just fine but some people want more.
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Old September 6, 2013, 09:58 PM   #46
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Think about it this way, when the patent runs out on the Glock, how many manufactures do you need making Glock 17's? How excited will you be about Colt, Remington, Springfield, IMI, Taurus, Beretta, making a Glock 17?
I am not excited about Glock making a Glock 17. "New and Improved" has always been the sales gimmick for introducing a new version or entry of any product into the market. While the "great new" feature may not be so great or new, manufacturers want to jump on to a successful bandwagon, not one going over a cliff. Really new innovations are not easy to come up with and are a serious gamble especially in our current economy. $.02.
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Old September 6, 2013, 10:07 PM   #47
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Venom

When you say you cant get something for nothing site an example.

. Besides MIM small parts that can be easily swapped out, pick a brand since you seem to know more than i do about 1911s. Then tell me why that brand justifies its price.

I can very easily justify my firearms that i posted pics of:
colts hold their value and appreciate.
1911s that i didnt buy as an investment i actually run in USCA, i also run glocks so i dont cuckhold myself to just one brand or design.

I dont think you read my prior posts in regards to why there are so many 1911 manufacturers and my comments on price vs quality.

On the inverse of what you said you can easily buy "something worth nothing", its called paying for a name or marketing hype.

Please post pics of what 1911s you collect or compete with i would like to see what brands you own.

Im eagerly anticipating pics of your 1911s
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Old September 6, 2013, 10:12 PM   #48
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Is anybody else tired of "new" 1911s coming out all the time?
Nope! Keep em comin.
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Old September 6, 2013, 10:15 PM   #49
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The Colt justifies its price in four areas;

forged or barstock main and fire control components

barrel quality

pride of ownership

resale value

Additionally, the post 1990 Colts I've fired were far more reliable than the entry-level also-rans I've owned or tinkered with. This is not to say the off brands cannot be good guns or that they cannot be built into perfectly serviceable 1911's. I've done it with a number of them. But they weren't comparable to the same effort put into a Hartford gun.
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Old September 6, 2013, 10:28 PM   #50
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Does not effect me either way.
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