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Old September 10, 2013, 09:53 PM   #26
DPris
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It ain't the caliber as much as the barrel length.
In two 16-inchers, I'd expect to get more downrange oomph out of a .45-70.
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Old September 11, 2013, 04:30 AM   #27
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You will get more oompf out of a 45/70 regardless of barrel length, if that is the only objective.
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Old September 11, 2013, 12:28 PM   #28
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double....
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Old September 11, 2013, 12:29 PM   #29
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Quote:
Maybe I am not rational, but I always considered it a bit silly to bother carrying a rifle then having it chambered for a pistol cartridge. For some reason, folks who like to do that seem to exaggerate the power of the pistol/revolver cartridge; I have been told that a .44 Magnum out of a rifle has more power than a .30-'06 from the same length barrel!!
If all you have to cover is 150yds, why do you need a rifle cartridge? Ya know, some folks even use muzzleloaders that weigh 10lbs and are only good for about 100yds. Imagine that!?!?!?!
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Old September 11, 2013, 12:43 PM   #30
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Quote:
Maybe I am not rational, but I always considered it a bit silly to bother carrying a rifle then having it chambered for a pistol cartridge. For some reason, folks who liketo do thatseem to exaggerate the power of the pistol/revolver cartridge; I have been told that a .44 Magnum out of a riflehasmore powerthan a .30-'06 from the same length barrel!!
My .44 mag with 240g handloads is easily more effective on dear/hogs inside 100 yards than my 30-30, both out of 20" 94 wins.

Quote:
If all you have to coveris 150yds, why do you need a riflecartridge? Yaknow,some folks even use muzzleloaders that weigh 10lbs and are only good for about 100yds. Imagine that!?!?!?!
I've taken a deer at 330 yards with my .58 caplock with a 525g mini. However my .62 is limited to about 150 yards due to the trajectory of it 900g bullet. Don't fall for the Myths on muzzleloaders.

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Old September 11, 2013, 01:32 PM   #31
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I'm not falling for a myth but thanks for the condescension. I'm talking about round balls. Not everybody who hunts with a muzzleloader uses conicals. Or even rifled bores for that matter.
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Old September 11, 2013, 02:33 PM   #32
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Yeah my trade rifle is a little limited, but you can't hunt with round ball anymore where I live in Oregon.

I've also shot Longgang at black powder rendezvouses with round ball out to 500 yards.

I guess I just have a pet peeve about people saying black powder is inaccurate or under powered. I cast a few hundred .62 900g bullets for a friend of mine the drop a 8 ton African elephant with one shot. He also killed the rest of the big 5.

900g bullet at the link http://TheFiringLine.com/forums/atta...0&d=1361936719
Left to Right...... .44 mag for scale .619 900 gn. Custom made mold 440 gn. .575 R.E.À.L.Bullet 150 gn. .308,accu-bond 53 gn. .223 V-max

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The number one cause of death in the 20th century. 290,000,000 citizens were first disarmed and then murdered by their own governments. This number does not include those killed in war.
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Old September 11, 2013, 03:08 PM   #33
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I didn't say it was underpowered or inaccurate. My .54's are extremely accurate and I typically run a .535" roundball over 100gr FFg at 1850fps. They are, however, by nature of the projectile, limited in range. That said, where I hunt, even a pistol cartridge levergun offers nothing more for the first shot because it's a rare instance where a 150yd shot is even possible. Let alone a high velocity centerfire rifle cartridge. So a .30-06 is a lot of unnecessary blast, noise and recoil.
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Old September 11, 2013, 03:12 PM   #34
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Gold pin in stock !

Hey , don't be knockin us ball shooters.....my GRRW .54 caliber took an Elk at 125 yards with a 230 grain ball powered by 90 grains of FFg.
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Old September 11, 2013, 05:58 PM   #35
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Not knocking anybody. I've been hunting with .54cal round balls for several years now, almost exclusively. Gonna be using a new one this season. The point being that a lot of folks hunt with rifles that are significantly heavier than your average centerfire rifle, let alone pistol cartridge carbine but with at least comparable, if not less effective range than your average .357 carbine.
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Old September 11, 2013, 06:19 PM   #36
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Nevermind me , I'm just kidding.....shooting the old smoke pole is awesome !
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Old September 11, 2013, 10:31 PM   #37
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@newfrontier45
I didn't mean to sound like I was going on the attack. Just defending my beloved smoke poles.

I've been shooting a. 58 since age 8 and I've been hunting with it since I was legal to do so. I was given my name(Boomer) at the Boonville rendezvous in Northern California at age 9. I like my BP guns.

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Old September 12, 2013, 05:22 PM   #38
hoobens
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Winchester Ballistics:
255gr. .38-55 @ 100 yds. 1190fps 802lbs.
158gr. .357 @100 yds. 1427fps 715lbs.
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Old September 12, 2013, 05:46 PM   #39
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Through what barrel lengths?
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Old September 13, 2013, 12:46 AM   #40
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The factory 38-55 ballistics are pretty wimpy. The loads from the Lyman manuals for years and years was a 255 gr @ about 1800 fps. I'd never give the 38-55 a second glance if stuck with factory loads.
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Old September 13, 2013, 05:06 AM   #41
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Winchester does not mention barrel lengths. I would presume the .357 stats are based on a handgun length barrel and rifle length with the .38-55. Given that you be gaining with the .357 and losing with .38-55, ballistics would be that much closer. In spite of all this discussion, I think my first inclination that they're fairly similar out of a 16" barrel holds.
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Old September 13, 2013, 10:12 AM   #42
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Hoobens, where did you get the data? That number for 357 looks like muzzle vel for a handgun.
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Old September 13, 2013, 11:24 AM   #43
DPris
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When I chronographed the .357 years ago through a 20-inch Marlin, I got from 1600-2100 FPS, depending on bullet weight.
Don't recall what I was getting with the .38-55 handloads through the 24-inch Marlin.

One thing to consider in .357s is that the lighter bullets are not built to be driven so much faster & may disintegrate on impact, reducing penetration.
Go heavy & well-constructed in a longer barrel.



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Old September 13, 2013, 04:24 PM   #44
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If you don't plan on reloading , I would not advise getting the 38-55.....there is a reason that the Winchester factory ammo selling at a pretty high price is wimpy ! Old firearms with weaker metallurgy and actions still exist that are chambered for this cartridge ! Only some manufactures like Buffalo Bore have ammunition that is more in line with the modern actions....it is a handloader's cartridge whether your into mild cast bullet loads or hotter hunting loads period ! A 255 grain JFN bonded core bullet going out at 1950 fps is nothing to sneeze at ! Say this same load out of a 16" barrel only goes 1800 fps.......that still beats say a 180 grain .357 magnum load even at the same speed, no ?
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Old September 15, 2013, 08:01 AM   #45
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At the end of the day, this gun would be plinker: something I can shoot offhand @100 yards on a human size silhouette just for fun. I just like lightweight short barrel guns. So, mild factory loads are fine with me.
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