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Old September 3, 2013, 08:52 PM   #1
Doc Hoy
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Just received a letter from the BATFE

It was my Curios and relics license.

30 bucks for the license and only about two weeks to process it.

1-54-550-03-6J-13293.
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Old September 3, 2013, 09:15 PM   #2
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That was fast!
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Old September 3, 2013, 10:14 PM   #3
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Maybe not a good idea to post your FFL number on a web site.

Jim
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Old September 4, 2013, 04:01 AM   #4
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James and Gary

JK,

It is a good point, but the numbers are public domain.

They are available on the ATF site simply by searching "list of ffl holders" on Google. Select the state and the month. Name and number, County, Type, Address and Expiration Date Code are there.

Gary,

We saw the charge on the credit card about five days after I mailed it in.

Then about nine or ten days later, my license is in the mailbox. Spouse almost threw it in the trash, not knowing why the BATFE would write me a letter. (Silly...I know)


Same day the parts for the Trapdoor came in. It was like Christmas
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Old September 4, 2013, 11:23 AM   #5
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Quote:
It is a good point, but the numbers are public domain.

They are available on the ATF site simply by searching "list of ffl holders" on Google. Select the state and the month. Name and number, County, Type, Address and Expiration Date Code are there.
Hey Doc, I don't think that 03 (C&R) licenses actually show up on any of the lists. Do you see yours in there somewhere?
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Old September 4, 2013, 11:43 AM   #6
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Doc

Pardon my ignorance but exactly what does a C&R license actually provide to someone who collects and sells guns mfg. after 1898? I thought about getting an FFL but way too much red tape and record keeping for this old coot.

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Old September 4, 2013, 12:24 PM   #7
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Two responses

Noel,

Mine does not show up yet because it is too soon, but there are other 03 licenses there.

JLB,

It allows me to purchase firearms older than 50 years without going through a different FFL holder. Around here the guys are charging 30 bucks to handle the transaction.

I am going to try an experiment towards the end of this week. I have a bid on an old revolver and I will see if the guy will ship it to me.

That sounds a little hit or miss but in the end, it doesn't really matter what it says in the book of rules. What matters is the will of the person who is doing the shipping. There are a lot of postal workers who don't know it is legal to ship a cap and ball revolver and if you happen to get an ignorant one when you try to ship it, the result is the same. It don't get shipped.

This is why I always answer their stupid rule book questions with either yes or no. I have never had a problem. They don't know what is in the box. I pays my money and they ships my pistols.

I am real close to getting on my libertarian soap box.
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Old September 4, 2013, 01:31 PM   #8
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Quote:
Mine does not show up yet because it is too soon, but there are other 03 licenses there.
Interesting. I'm on my third update, had the FFL03 for 7 or 8 years now, and I don't show up in any of the lists for Virginia. I looked through several of the spreadsheets and don't see any other 03's in there either. Can you point one out?

My understanding is that FFL03's don't show up on any validation lists or the EZ-Check site for security reasons (collectors don't generally want the public to know where they collect). For many years now, the BATF has required confirmation of C&R licenses over the phone. Was wondering if that had changed, but don't see any evidence that is has.
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Old September 4, 2013, 08:03 PM   #9
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Doc

Ya mean I could buy a gun made in 1957 without having to pay an FFL dealer? If so I think I will get one too.

Is there a lot of paperwork required either to get or keep it? It seems I read somewhere once that you must have a certain amount of transactions to keep an FFL. Any of that crap with an C&R? I am not a high volume buyer or seller but $30/yr seems cost effective for me and my buy/sell habits. I know I spend four times that at least.
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Old September 4, 2013, 09:38 PM   #10
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Congrats Doc! I really need to get around to filing mine.


Sooo. whats the first item on "the list" as an official C&R holder
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Old September 5, 2013, 01:53 AM   #11
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A C&R is mainly for buying, you can sell a occasional gun but the BATFE frowns on sales all the time. I have had mine for almost a year and have had no problem getting 13 guns shipped to my door. It sure makes life simpler for me, just be sure and keep your book in perfect order. I keep all documentation, packing slips, invoices and every other item that pertains to the transaction with my book.
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Old September 5, 2013, 03:09 PM   #12
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I just visited three shops here in FL

...Some of the ones I routinely visit when I am down here.

Each of them said they would ship to an 03-FFL without any additional handling charge.

The LGS that I work with in Chesapeake where I live, gets thirty bucks for each transaction. If I only ever receive one weapon, the license is paid for.
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Old September 5, 2013, 04:48 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Doc Hoy

There are a lot of postal workers who don't know it is legal to ship a cap and ball revolver and if you happen to get an ignorant one when you try to ship it, the result is the same.
It don't get shipped.

FWIW, even a fish wouldn't get in trouble, if it would only keep it's mouth shut.

There is NO legal obligation to disclose the contents of ANY USPS parcel, except to answer honestly the 5 questions every Postal Clerk is required to ask, re mailability: "Are the contents hazardous, flammable, perishable, fragile, or explosive ? "

Further, it is against Postal Regs (which carry the force of Federal Law) to indicate in any way, on the outside of the parcel, that the contents are a firearm (BP guns are legally firearms for the purposes of USPS mailability).

(reference) http://pe.usps.com/text/dmm300/601.htm

Discussing a USPS parcel's contents, especially if it's a firearm, is self-inflicted trouble.

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Old September 5, 2013, 08:10 PM   #14
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It is also good for discounts at most on line gun/parts stores. Midway, Wideners etc.

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Old September 6, 2013, 06:36 PM   #15
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even a fish wouldn't get in trouble, if it would only keep it's mouth shut.
Uh, if a fish kept it's mouth shut it would suffocate. In my estimation, that would be big time trouble.
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Old September 7, 2013, 06:43 AM   #16
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Petah..

I am talking about the shipment of C and R firearms using the FFL to FFL shipment.

I have never used that method, but my understanding is that you box it up, take the box and your FFL to the P.O. and the item gets shipped (Or use UPS and the process is the same.

So if you show up with your FFL it would be assumed that the contents of the package is a firearm.

If this is incorrect I stand by to be corrected.

My point is that if the P.O. skirt does not know the rules, you could get some push back.

I have asked the question and have had the P.O. gal tell me she would not accept a firearm under any circumstance. I told her the cap and ball revolvers were not firearms under the P.O. definition and there did not need to be disclosed and could be shipped. That bruised her ego and she reacted by getting mad at me. I inquired about any impending retirement in her future. Also asked the location of the emergency "chill pills".

True you do not have to tell the P.O. person what is in the box. True it is not permitted for them to ask specifically.
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Old September 10, 2013, 09:30 AM   #17
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I'm curious, I had pondered getting one of these, but what is the deal with having the feds drop by and checking out your premises? I know they are supposed to do inspections of ffls, but what about curio & relic folks? I am not too cool with the idea of feds coming onto my property at their convenience.
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Old September 10, 2013, 10:51 AM   #18
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I believe they can do inspections but has to be arranged ahead of time (no drop in's). They just look at your bound book. I've had my C&R license for over 7 years now and never had a visit. Don't know of any of my C&R licensed friends who have either. For me, it's worth it.
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Old September 10, 2013, 11:11 AM   #19
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Oooops Guys....

In a previous post, I said they list FFL holders on the BATFE site.

That was wrong.

They list everything but 03 type licenses.
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Old September 10, 2013, 02:25 PM   #20
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Quote:
They list everything but 03 type licenses.
I just did a sort on one of the lists and they don't appear to list 04 or 05 licenses either.
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Old September 10, 2013, 03:54 PM   #21
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When I looked at the list....

I did not see a type of license under the heading 04 or 05. It seems to skip from 03 to 06.

But here is question for you Noel, since you have good experience. Have you ever had an outgoing shipment questioned or refused by anyone at the post office?
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Old September 10, 2013, 06:17 PM   #22
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Sorry Doc I don't have any experience shipping a C&R eligible gun. I generally keep what I collect, but have sold a few guns locally to improve my collection.
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Old September 10, 2013, 07:17 PM   #23
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Got it....

The main reason that I got this license was to have stuff sent directly to me without having to pay the thirty bucks. I also want to be able to purchase when I go out of state.
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Old September 10, 2013, 07:32 PM   #24
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Doc, Your first reason is the best reason. From my experience, the C&R doesn't work so good out of state unless you are buying from someone you know. Dealers generally will not sell to you because they have a hard time confirming your license isn't forged/photo-shopped. Only way to confirm a C&R, like I said earlier, is to call the BATFE. Try using your C&R for a qualifying gun at a gun show here in VA some time. From my experience, dealers still insist on a NICS check, but waive the fee. YMMV
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Old September 11, 2013, 02:43 AM   #25
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Noel

I can tell you it did not work (confirming that you are correct in your statement) when I purchased the 1911 clone.

The vendor's attitude was that the C&R license does not serve to waive the background check requirement when the weapon being purchased does not fit the C&R definition. So I paid the two dollar fee and waited until the background check came back clean (About ten minutes.) just like the guy right behind me. This is one of those instances in which the person who has the firearm, has the ability to interpose his interpretation of the rules. I don't know if he was right or wrong, but in the end it doesn't matter. We played by his rules.

In Florida, there are three or four gun shops and one pawn shop that I haunt and the last time I was down there they all agreed that they would sell to me based upon the C&R I showed them and would ship to me under that license. But as you say, these folks know me, know that I had planned for some time to get a C&R license, and now have seen the license. With one of them I had already done business on a cap and ball pistol. I spend enough time in Georgia that I might eventually build a relationship with the LGS owner in the town I frequent. Already bought a rifle from him over the counter.
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