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Old September 3, 2013, 08:40 PM   #1
BerdanSS
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Morgan James or wesson?

this topic came up during a BP shooting match between my Dad, brother and a very good friend of mine on labor day.

Where can a reproduction fully built, kit or parts....Morgan James rifle or wesson rifle be obtained? If at all.


I saw a brass framed edwin wesson "style" rifle at the traders fair. It appeared to be about .40 caliber, 12# barrel, original and completely unsafe to fire with a price of $900
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Old September 3, 2013, 08:44 PM   #2
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It has to be custom made. A barrel blank has to be machined into octagon shape. Part of the muzzle must be cut off to make the false muzzle. If it's a 2" barrel, then it's likely that the metal frame has to be handmade.

The easiest part will be the back-action lock. That may be had commercially.
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Old September 3, 2013, 09:53 PM   #3
ivankerley
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new guy here but dixie gun works has a rifle called a dixie wesson rifle, .45 cal, neat looking rifle, is that what your looking for?
Best of luck
Gene
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Old September 3, 2013, 10:09 PM   #4
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He's looking for a Daniel Wesson type rifle. Daniel Wesson made target telescope rifles and the one owned by the Smithsonian was carried by Edwin Stancliffe, a member of the First New York Battalion Sharp Shooters.

BTW: Attend the NMLRA Chunk gun matches. They're today's equivalent of those target telescope rifles. Apart from optics, they're close to the same.
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Old September 4, 2013, 03:15 AM   #5
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yep guess the only thing in common was the false muzzle and the caliber as the one im talking about is round 10 lbs, not the 17-30lb monsters i just read about...
couldnt find a picture of the Smithsonian rifle you mentioned, found a few morgan james, etc.
Regards
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Old September 4, 2013, 05:22 AM   #6
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The last time I went to D.C. the American History Museum was still being remodeled and only part of it was reopened. The firearms section wasn't open.

Over a decade ago they had Stancliffe's rifle on display but incorrectly attributed him to Berdan's Sharp Shooters. I corrected them and included some information on him (I dug out his service record and pension application) as well as his image.
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Old September 4, 2013, 06:32 AM   #7
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4V50 Gary

thanks for the info impressive when you can correct a museum!, appreciate it being a new guy, ive seen slug guns at friendship before, pretty neat, not my cup of tea but can appreciate them nonetheless apologies for the derail on the OP's thread
Gene
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Old September 4, 2013, 09:44 PM   #8
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thanks all


Gary
Any Idea where to start looking for such a barrel maker? I've spend a good bit of time since yesterday looking with no results. I'm not wanting anything really serious like a 25 or 30 pounder. I think a 16 pound gun would do just the trick. possibly 50 caliber just for interchangeabilitys sake.
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Old September 5, 2013, 07:08 AM   #9
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Berdan SS - no but contact the NMLRA. They'll know. BTW, I have to either flute a barrel or make an octagon barrel this semester. Let me know because I'd like to make one for myself.
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Old September 5, 2013, 08:53 PM   #10
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Only thing I've scrounged so far is an 1 & 3/8 hex rice blank...doesn't seem heavy enough


Gary
You would just so happen to be attending the Colorado School of trade would you?
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Old September 7, 2013, 09:39 AM   #11
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Berdan SS - nope. A better one. Trinidad State J.C. It's the oldest and the best in the nation.

BTW, what twist were you thinking of? I'm going to ask my machine shop teacher for suggestions.
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Old September 7, 2013, 10:09 AM   #12
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The Dixie Wesson Rifle's a BP/muzzleloader copy of an Edwin Wesson rifle:





Frank Wesson Rifle copies are made by Steve Earle:

http://www.steveearleproducts.com/

Earle's "Mid-Range" & "Sporting" Wesson:




Earle's "Long Range Wesson":









And what a Long Range Rilfe can be made to look like:





.

Last edited by PetahW; September 10, 2013 at 07:08 PM.
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Old September 8, 2013, 08:20 PM   #13
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Petah

thank you very much for the info, pics and link



GARY

I had forgot all about Trinidad I had a buddy that went to Colorado School of trade if why I asked....he said wasn't very impressed with it either. As for myself, I had grand plans to attend Murray State back when....it never happened

I haven't given much thought to twist yet, was poking around first to see if any such monster was possible first Any suggestions are VERY welcome!
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Old September 9, 2013, 08:24 PM   #14
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Today I lengthened the forcing cone on a shotgun barrel and then polished it. Who says school can't be fun?

What twist do you recommend for a 50 cal muzzle loader?
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Old September 12, 2013, 07:37 PM   #15
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BerdanSS - I asked my machine shop teacher. He didn't know any maker of 50 caliber 1:22 or 1:24 twist barrels. My classmate did (he's also NMLRA). He suggested Green Mountain. Here's the biggest I found. It will make a medium weight barrel.

http://www.gmriflebarrel.com/barrelb...al-14-diameter

I also checked Colerain and didn't find anything. Doesn't look like we can get a 2" thick barrel.

Today I learned how to cut on the fly. That can be used to cut the flats on the milling machine (instead of using a horizontal mill).
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Old September 14, 2013, 05:57 PM   #16
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IMO, what you want/need is a thick "Chunk Gun" barrel - most of which are custom-made by small, independent barrel makers.

Search for Bob Hoyt, Wayne Jenkins, Charlie Burton, Paul Griffith, as well as Ed Rayl - all can make chunk gun barrels.

IIRC, all of these guys can do a 48" barrel.

Bob made a 1-1/4"X 42" a few years ago; one made a bbl 60" long by 1-3/8" across-the-flats.



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Old September 20, 2013, 07:34 AM   #17
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BTW, my instructor told me yesterday that Pac-Nor will make the barrel. I'll have to drop them a dime.
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