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Old November 24, 2013, 04:56 PM   #1
QuarterHorse
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Bedding Compound

I've read until my eyes hurt on various forums on what compound to use to bed my rifle stock while I wait for dies. I'm thinking about JB Weld and mixing it then let it sit for a few to thicken up. I've already confiscated play dough from my son who was more than willing to give it up for working on a rifle haha.

I've heard Devcon, but then which one? I've heard a few others too but I'm back to ordering and I haven't seen where JB doesn't work and I can buy that buy the gallon for inexpensive.

Have you guys had good success with it? I plan on cleaning the snot out of the stock with brake clean and using a TON of KIWI neutral shoe polish for a release agent. Using the play dough to dam up where I don't want it to go, and taping the barrel to make sure it's free floated. I'm also using long bolts and cutting the heads off to thread into the action to poke down through the stock, with a ton of KIWI on those as well. I don't want to mess up the rifle but do want to learn to do this and start building my own rifles.

FWIW this is being on a non-accutrigger Savage model 11.

Thoughts on this?
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Old November 24, 2013, 05:48 PM   #2
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I buy the bedding kits from Brownells. It's the proper stuff to use. There's a lot of materials that will form and harden like bedding material, including hot glue but proper bedding material must not change with temperature, and must be impervious to oils and solvents. Buy the proper material from a source such as Brownells so you wont need to worry later on. It's worked great on the 5 or 6 rifles I've done over the years.
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Old November 24, 2013, 06:12 PM   #3
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How to glass bed a rifle action by Brownellshttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KMsxH...e_gdata_player

JB Weld works but real bedding compound works better.

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Old November 24, 2013, 06:47 PM   #4
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Do yourself a favor and get Acraglas bedding compound and release agent.
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Old November 24, 2013, 07:59 PM   #5
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My tests on different bedding stuff showed MarineTex and Devcon plastic steel has the least shrinkage when cured hard. Brownell's brown steel filled stuff was a close second. Last place with the most shrinking was Accuraglass.

Tight fit of receiver to bedding is important for best accuracy. Using the thinnest possible release agent helps; I like Simonise car wax rubbed on steel as thin as possible then rubbed hard to thin it.

If what you use is too runny or thin, put a bit of kitchen baking flour in it.
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Old November 24, 2013, 08:13 PM   #6
Ridgerunner665
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I used MarineTex...get the grey color, it is stronger than the white.

As Bart said...it is as good as anything, and better than most...available at your local boat dealer.

Not sure if it was the ideal thing or not...but I used Kiwi shoe polish (neutral color)...it did work good, the compound flaked right off of it.

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Old November 24, 2013, 08:15 PM   #7
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Devcon Plastic Steel Bedding Compound Putty seems to be the best stuff available. Yes, it is a bit pricey but it will do several rifles. Don't use a "ton" of Kiwi. The idea, as Bart said, it needs to be thin for a precise fit. I've had good luck with Johnson floor wax, but it is hard to find these days. Kiwi is one of the the thinnest things you can use as a release agent. From my experience, neutral Kiwi works great but coat completely & keep it as thin as possible. If you are not pillar bedding, re-drill action screw holes after it all dries & seal with some stock finish. Ideally, screws should not touch the stock wood.

FWIW...

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Old November 24, 2013, 08:22 PM   #8
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And on the "doing it yourself"....I was a nervous wreck, lol...

I researched it VERY thoroughly, then researched it some more.

But now that the rifle is done...I'm all the more proud of it.



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Old November 24, 2013, 08:28 PM   #9
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Thanks for the info fellas keep it coming! FWIW this is the stock synthetic stock, not wood if it matters.
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Old November 24, 2013, 08:46 PM   #10
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YouTube videos...

There are tons of them on this subject, and your Savage being a round action, they will help you more than they did me...the Winchester is a square bottom action, a little more complicated to bed.
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Old November 24, 2013, 09:05 PM   #11
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I would not use regular JB Weld. It is not strong enough, IMO, without being mixed with some fibre reinforcement (metal bits or perhaps even chopped glass fibre) to hold up to repeated vibration from firing the rifle. I may be wrong, but that is my opinion.

I have always used Devcon Plastic Steel, or the equivalent. Epoxy putties, as opposed to thinner, more liquid or gel products, are much easier to work with. They stay put - you never have the problem of the bedding material squeezing out and ending up where you don't want it.

If you cannot find Devcon locally, there are some good equivalents, readily available. One is by the JB Weld company. I can't remember the exact name, but I think it's called "KwikSteel". It is steel (fibre) reinforced epoxy putty. I have used it a couple of times, when short of Devcon - and it works well. The only drawback is short working time, shoirter than the Devcon. But, with proper planning and doing the bedding in stages,I've had no trouble with it. It certainly is durable enough.
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Old November 27, 2013, 02:20 PM   #12
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Before Acraglas Gel, I used regular Acraglas, but mixed a lot of chopped up fiberglass insulation in it to stop it from running so much. It also seemed to make it stronger and reduced shrinkage. The liquid Acraglas seems to penetrate into wood stocks better than anything else I've used.

I make my own pillars from 1/2" steel tubing, lightly grooving the outsidesfor better locking into the stock.

Clear paste shoe polish works well for a release compound, wiping it off after drying. Two coats and wiping insures good coverage.
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Old November 28, 2013, 11:02 AM   #13
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JB Weld, has greater tensile and shear strength than Devcon 10110.

They claim "zero" shrinkage, which is impossible, but I've seen no evidence proving it's not par in this category either (no shrinkage is probably most important for this application).

It's perfectly suitable for use as a bedding compound. It is low in viscosity which makes it more time sensitive on vertical surfaces like the sides of the action. Gotta move fast with it, fillers like aluminum or steel powder can be used to thicken to the desired viscosity.

Proper "technique" so as not to introduce stress into the barreled action when bedding is at least as important as the "brand" of epoxy used.
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Old November 28, 2013, 12:40 PM   #14
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I agree with Bart B & Bumblebug. The first time I bed a rifle Rem. 700 I watched all the vedios on line, read every thing I could on the subject, just like you. Went with Devcon steel, Kiwi Nat.& masking tape. My hands were shaking & my heart was pumping, and then the 24 hr. wait. If you take your time & follow all the steps it will come out perfect. When the action comes out of the mold and you look how nice it came out, it will put a smile on your face. Pick a time with out any interruptions, not even phone calls. Then the next step is torque sittings on your action screws & accuracy adjustments. It's fun making your rifle as accurate as possible. Go for it & let us know how it came out. Chris
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Old November 28, 2013, 10:10 PM   #15
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Things went sideways his week due to the holiday but I will be getting 'er done next week and hope my .308 dies show up shortly as well. We'll see how well we can get an inexpensive rifle to work. I've already played with the stock trigger and got it working a little better.
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Old November 28, 2013, 11:49 PM   #16
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Buy this...you wont regret it!
http://www.brownells.com/gunsmith-to...prod23062.aspx

Other things that may help but are not necessary are: Blue painters tape, and some modeling clay.
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Old November 30, 2013, 08:22 PM   #17
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I cant even remember the name of the stuff I have been using recently. I know where its at on the shelf at Napa, but cant recall the name. Specs wise it is as strong and contracts about the same as devcon steel. Its a gray colored putty. Its a million times easier to use than glass epoxy and the other epoxy based steels. I dont think I will ever use epoxy based stuff again. The putties are so much easier. Epoxy is OK for a filler, but putty is the only way to go for the actual bedding.
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Old November 30, 2013, 08:41 PM   #18
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What do you mean by putty? You're not talking the stuff that comes in a tube and you kneed together with your fingers that looks like gray play-doh?
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Old November 30, 2013, 11:45 PM   #19
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Yep, but it is a commercial grade that has much higher compression and shear strength than the stuff you find at Wally World. The earlier versions that came out would break pretty easy under compression. This stuff has compression strength much higher than glass bedding. Its numbers for everything except adhesion are much higher than even JB Weld. Its easy. Its not messy. The rifles I have done shoot wonderful. So far, it seems to be very durable.
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Old December 2, 2013, 12:01 AM   #20
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Well the time has come. I have the rifle set up in my vice inside the house to get to temp for bedding the action tomorrow after work. I just have to get some bolts on lunch tomorrow and cut the heads off to use as guides.

I have the Kiwi, I couldn't get the Devcon local and for some reason it's getting hard to order it. I blame it on the parts houses around here for having to hire retards at 7 buck an hour instead of someone half way competent. For that reason, I'm just using the JB Weld. I've been half way harassed on other forums for questioning the use of it. I have it, a ton of it that I use on other projects, so it's getting the nod. If it starts to crumble over time, guess what, I probably need to upgrade stocks anyway and it will be a lesson learned. I doubt it does, but I guess we'll all see!

I can honestly say I'm half way nervous about this, even with watching a ton of videos on it........

Well the stock is scuffed and prepped. These savages don't have a lot of bedding surface on the rear mount on the factory stocks, however, I'm sure after this it will still be better.

Where the front screw is there are lots of cavities that I will fill with epoxy as well to help stiffen it up. I put a thin layer of Kiwi on everything I could think of, even the taped off and areas I put play doh.

I'll quadruple check everything tomorrow when I get home from work, while it's quiet before the wife and 5 year old get home, and it's getting set in the stock.

I think I will lightly wrap tape around the action/stock just to hold it all in place.

My dies should be here this week so I can start on the hand loads for this rifle. It will be interesting to see the transformation of inexpensive .308win Savage Model 11 hunting rifle with Core lokt ammo to a bedded stock and hand loaded ammo.
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Old December 2, 2013, 04:35 AM   #21
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Bedding Compound

If a rifle is bedded with devcon or glass and the barrel is replaced with the same contour does it need to be rebedded?
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Old December 2, 2013, 07:32 AM   #22
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I wouldn't use tape or anything else to hold in your action while the bedding cures. I would put your guide screws back in and torque them to be the same as if you were shooting your gun.
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Old December 2, 2013, 12:33 PM   #23
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I use grease on my action screws and put them in just tight enough to hold the action in proper location.

Sometimes, when a rifle has a wooden stock and the recoil plate area seems small, I've installed pins or screws in the wood behind the plate and cut them off at the wood surface. That helps to keep epoxy from failing under recoil. I've also done it behind the rear of some actions, especially on older stocks that have been oil-soaked. Punky wood is cut away underneath, but not at the surface. Epoxy fills the voids.
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Old December 2, 2013, 01:20 PM   #24
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I bed my Savage accu-stock but removed it later . I used the putty stuff because the gaps that needed to be filled were so big . I did not want the thin stuff running down and or in to every nook and cranny or needing to apply it 3 o 4 times to fill the gap . There were many reasons I was bedding a stock that does not need it . Long story short The accu-stock does NOT need to be bedded and I removed the bedding and the rifle is shooting fine .

This is just to show when you need to fill large gaps the putty is the way to go . Really it would be good for any bedding but you will need to put just the right amount because it does not compress as easy . I explain below





This was all done before I ever shot the rifle with the bedding in . I used the putty stuff first and it was to thick for my receiver to pinch it down all the way or I did not apply enough torque to the screws . I only torqued it to 40lbs when doing the bedding .I used the original action screws and just put a bunch of release agent on them ( I used sizing wax , worked fine ). Savage said 40lbs on each screw so thats what I did . In hindsight probably not what I should have done .

The action was sitting off the bottom block a little bit and I could tell the action was sitting up higher then before . Not much but some . I was thinking that may be preventing the side ribs from clamping the action the way it was intended . What I did to fix that was sand down the bedding material about a 1/16" and by doing so exposed the bottom spine of the aluminum . I then used a thiner steel reinforced epoxy and bed the action again . By using the thinner compound . When I torqued down the action it squeezed all the new bedding material away from the spine and the final result is what you see in the picture . You can see the second bedding of the thinner compound . It's darker then the first coat of the putty . putty is grey-ish the other almost black
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Old December 2, 2013, 06:01 PM   #25
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Thick putty epoxy would not be my choice for exactly that reason. The epoxy needs to flow out as it's displaced by the action. I often use JB Weld but don't really like it because it's too thin, best is a "mayonnaise" consistency that'll cling to vertical surfaces and not run off.

It's generally not a good idea to torque action screws or studs tightly as this can induce stress into the receiver. It's been commonly done like that for decades, but most thought now is to use pressure evenly distributed across the action, by wrapping it with electrical tape (stretched), or surgical tubing around the stock.
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