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Old September 24, 2013, 10:30 PM   #76
michaelcj
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God I'm old!!! I've got a Lefever A grade Skeet and a Winchester 97 riot...seems like enough... but then no natural predators where I live.

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Old September 24, 2013, 10:43 PM   #77
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Man, I'd love to get my hands on a riot and rebuild it into a trench gun.
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Old September 24, 2013, 11:04 PM   #78
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Yes- the Mossy or Remmie. The pumpies.
Use buckshotty.
LOL-ie!

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The remington 870 isn't as great as everyone remembers it to be. New ones are prone to problems from the factory.
Maybe, Maybe not .....if that worries you at all, there are about a ho-jillion used ones out there and many of them are for sale ...... same with the Mossberg pumps .... and the Ithacas and Stevens and H&R's ...... they all have been shucking shells for generations, and will continue to do for generations more ....

As for "short-stroking" a pump gun...... that sounds like a software problem, as opposed to a hardware problem ....... operator head space and timing, as it were ..... an entirely user level fix, to be sure!
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Old September 24, 2013, 11:50 PM   #79
semi_problomatic
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I don't have to worry about 870's problems. I drive a pardner pump.

The post I was replying to had made comments about the ease of operation of a pump vs a semi duing panic moments.

If you think about the mechanics of the two, and how they operate, and how you operate and leave them loaded.... The semi wins.

1) single hand use. (if for some reason you lose the ability to use an arm, you can keep putting rounds out with a semi
2) second shot placement - semi's have less felt recoil than pumps. Facts of life
3) ease of use:

Pump- condition 1 - disengage safety - engage target - pump slide to eject and reload - reaquire target - engage target - pump slide to eject and chamber round - reaquire target - engage target

Problems encountered: short stroke-stove pipe shell - attempt to engage - pump slide to eject shell turning weapon so half stuck in shell can fall out hoping round now sitting on slidegate doesn't wander around and jam when you rack slide forward.
Short stroke slide-shell ejects but no second shell is picked up- bring to battery empty chamber on target-attempt to engage-pump slide to rack a round-reaquire target -engage
Short stroke-shell gets stuck on lifter but under bolt - spin gun around and use as club
Soft stroke pump causing shell to not fully disengage from mag tube-slam gun against something to make round fully disengage-slam forearm forward-aquire target-engage

Semi - condition 1 - disengage safety - engage target - engage target - engage target - engage target...

Problems encountered with semi:FTF-rack bolt back-engage target
FTE-rack bolt back-engage target
Round stovepipes-rack bolt back- engage target

Semi's are just easier. They seem more complicated, but really they're not. Some need a bit of attention before hand, but they take a lot of user errors out. If you left your gun in condition 3, you could have a problem with finding the battery release; depending on how you load it. Also, you can (and are supposed to, for some semi's) load a ghost round under thr bolt. If practiced with, this gives you a +2 capacity free. And/or a +1 and easy way to load it from closed bolt/empty chamber.

Pumps have a big standing as home defense guns. They're cheap and they're "whats been done" semi's had a long standing of being finicky with round type, expensive, and largely unknown to general population. Pumps are made out to be some sort of rugged, indestructible thunder sticks that never fail. And, in the right hands, I'm fairly confident they'd run just fine. Semi's are getting more popular and cheaper. More user friendly and widely available. Walmart's selling a 930 spx for $499 with 5+1 (+2 with ghost round) with a breacher muzzle.
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Old September 25, 2013, 07:00 AM   #80
jehu
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When I was I kid in the mid sixties and started to waterfowl hunt with my father we had Rem. model 11's, Browning A5's & my first gun a Wards Hercules 410 SXS.Man I loved the wood & blued guns and still have a great affinity towards them as they bring back many great memories of moments afield. I'll never forget the day I opened a hunting magazine in the 60's and saw a Colt advertizment with a guy holding the werdist gun I had ever seen. He was on a farm and the rifle was being suggested by Colt to be the newest thing for hunting & protection.It looked like something out of Star Trek and nothing like I would ever want. Being young I did not pay much attention to the nightly news much,which my father had on every night, but not long after seeing the gun in the magazine one night I noticed during some Vietnam footage that a soldier was carrying that very same rifle. I thought it was ugly and never would I own one or replace one of my beloved wood & blued guns for it. Little did I know that what I was looking at would evolve into one of the most popular shooting platforms of all time and today I own 8 of them in different Calibers and configurations. My point being that the design of the KSG, for the shotgun HD, world is much like the AR15 was to the rifle world at the time. I said the design,which is bullpup,will be tweaked and improved upon and IMO will become the new standard for HD and maybe combat shotgun platforms. I have owned 870's for HD & hunting and they are a time tested reliable shotgun but with the short length and avalible firepower of the KSG I think the design will become standard in time for HD and law enforcment use.
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Old September 25, 2013, 08:00 AM   #81
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Best Home Defense Shotty?

I avoid Kel Tec like the plague.
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Old September 25, 2013, 10:43 AM   #82
buckhorn_cortez
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As for "short-stroking" a pump gun...... that sounds like a software problem, as opposed to a hardware problem ....... operator head space and timing, as it were ..... an entirely user level fix, to be sure!
It's always operator error. I've done it myself while hunting and shooting trap attempting to get a second shot. It happens even with lots of practice. You just get in a hurry and don't run the forearm all the way to the front. When you find out you've short stroked the gun, it's too late. While it may be "an entirely user level fix," when you're using the gun under pressure, things happen. The problem can be avoided completely with a high quality semi-auto.

I have an FN SLP and wouldn't trade it for any pump shotgun you can show me - including a Benelli or the FN pump. Today, good semi-autos just run with all kinds of loads, mixed loads, dirty, etc. They work really well and you cannot accidently short stroke them.
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Old September 26, 2013, 03:00 PM   #83
Dreaming100Straight
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I have a Remington 870 Express and I have never short stroked it, even though I am a shotgun klutz of the 1st degree, and that includes shooting doubles for skeet. Still, I agree with Buckhorn that a good quality, not a low end and it doesn't have to be a top end, Semi Automatic may be the more dependable choice for home defense.
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Old September 26, 2013, 03:05 PM   #84
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Jehu, I don't know about the "design" of the KSG, but whether they are due to design or manufacturing issues it is anything but dependable as of today.
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Old September 27, 2013, 06:46 AM   #85
jehu
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I some what agree. They had some issuse with it when it first came out and as I said I had a problem with mine but they fixed it and it runs like a Swiss watch now. They have corrected problems and made improvments with the newest production but anyone who gets one should run it hard until they are satisfied that it is what they need. I am no Keltech fan and don't like their pistols or anything else they make but the design of the KSG is perfect,IMO,for a HD shotgun. I think in time other companies will copy it and make improvments to the design but for now I have one that works good others experiance may vary.
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Old September 27, 2013, 05:21 PM   #86
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I have no experience with the KSG and the only Keltec that I own is a P3AT for pocket carry which has been reliable and no problems with it. It is probably 10 years old. Clearly, this particular KSG has too many issues to be used as a home defense shotgun. I think they will get it sorted out eventually, or someone else will. I do like the concept.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BVVii2K1j5k
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Old September 28, 2013, 08:30 AM   #87
jehu
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The problem in that video is the same problem I had. I sent it back to Keltec and when it came back it runs smooth as silk with O hickups. When I called them with the description of the problem they said they knew exactly what was going on and that they had corrected the problem in new production.
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Old September 28, 2013, 09:50 AM   #88
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Semis

I have three semi auto 12 gauge shotguns. Each has been used for Trap, Skeet, upland hunting. Each has proven reliable.
Two were bought used: Franchi AL48, Winchester model 59 (shot a 25 straight with it at Trap).
One I bought new - a Stoeger 2000. Never a problem.
All were less than $500 (actually, they were all less than $400)
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Old September 28, 2013, 03:49 PM   #89
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A simple check of the Urban Dictionary : http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=shotty shows that the term "shotty" is used in the drug culture in several different ways. Frankly, I have a hard time believing that The Firing Line isn't the butt of a somewhat inside joke here - a joke which I find not to be the least bit amusing.
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Old September 28, 2013, 05:30 PM   #90
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A simple check of the Urban Dictionary : http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=shotty shows that the term "shotty" is used in the drug culture in several different ways. Frankly, I have a hard time believing that The Firing Line isn't the butt of a somewhat inside joke here - a joke which I find not to be the least bit amusing.
OP probably got the message about using the term 'shotty' on the first page of thread and has been reminded at least one time every page since.
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Old September 28, 2013, 06:29 PM   #91
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shortwave, It is one thing to "remind" OP of the silliness of Shotty. It is quite another to make it clear that shotty is slang for a blunt or joint, "A variation of the bong native to SouthWest England, where a straight tube is used instead of a conventional "gauze type" bong tube, or, A bong done in one large toke that fills the entire chamber with smoke then pulls the burning mix/cannabis down the pipe and into the water. As this happens the continued inhalation and release in pressure draws the smoke up into the lungs at speed - resulting in an intense high." And that was the reason for my post. Now just where before my post did any other forum member make the connection between shorty and illegal drug slang?
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Old September 28, 2013, 06:43 PM   #92
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CurlyQ I would think the OP after learning about the term S#####, would have edited his post to use a different word.

But I have hope that many of the newer shooters will learn with age and move to guns that are better suited to hunting game and not people.
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Old September 28, 2013, 06:55 PM   #93
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The word shotty can mean a variety of things depending on where your at and topic being discussed. But Thanks for the 'Urban' definition.

Quote:
Enough with "Shottie" ( 1 2 3 )
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^ A closed thread worth reading. ^
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Old September 28, 2013, 11:02 PM   #94
Rikakiah
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Re: Best Home Defense Shotty?

Quote:
Originally Posted by jaguarxk120 View Post
CurlyQ I would think the OP after learning about the term S#####, would have edited his post to use a different word.
Oh, I doubt he stuck around long enough to make many edits after how he was treated...

And yes, there's a variety of words that have several meanings, particular when crossing the giant pond. I don't see the point.

Why can't we just answer a guy's question without always getting bent out of shape over semantics?

Oh, and shottieshottieshottie.
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Old September 28, 2013, 11:26 PM   #95
hogdogs
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This has run it's course plenty...

Closed

Brent
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