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Old September 5, 2013, 08:09 PM   #51
shortwave
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^^^Yes it does...and remember...practice and come back and show us some wear marks on that new 870.
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Old September 5, 2013, 08:30 PM   #52
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Yes - very good decision Dragger34. If you can find some, try No. 1 buckshot - big enough to stop a bad guy but small enough to minimize the risk to people, e.g., relatives or friends, on the other side of a wall.
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Old September 6, 2013, 09:25 AM   #53
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dragger34
Thank you all again, I've decided when it comes time to get a shotgun, I'm going to get a Remy 870 12 ga. smoothbore with buck shot. It's the only shotgun I've ever shot, affordable, and reliable.
Good choice.

I noticed some discussion about putting a red dot sight on it earlier in the thread. A cheaper alternative might be some of the magnetic "hi-viz" sights or something similar. I use them for duck hunting, and shooting hours start 1/2 hour before sunrise here. Shooting in total blackness is a bad idea, but those sights work well for me, even 1/2 hour before sunrise out in the woods.
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Old September 6, 2013, 06:14 PM   #54
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My goal is to have a full-size pistol, a short shotgun, and short rifle/carbine for home-defense
IF you NEED all that for HD, you really need to find a better neighborhood
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Old September 6, 2013, 06:24 PM   #55
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BigD, Or the OP just wants options in a great neighborhood...

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Old September 7, 2013, 10:18 AM   #56
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I'd actually had that desire, too (although it was pistol, shotgun, and .45 carbine). Although, with all the options, I was concerned I'd be so busy deciding which one best fit the situation, I'd lose precious seconds if I was ever in a situation.

Now, I just rely on my pistol as my primary option. No decision-same option every time. Once it's in hand, I can determine if I need to get my AR (although, I'd expect it's a rare day indeed I'll need more than a few pistol rounds, to be honest).

However, I wouldn't fault a guy who wanted 3 different guns in every room of his house. Although, I also probably wouldn't park my car on his street if his neighborhood was bad enough he felt he needed that level of options...
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Old September 7, 2013, 10:46 AM   #57
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There's one thing all neighborhoods, from the gated communities to the ghetto's, have in common...they are all bad when 'you' happen to be the 'victim of choice' on a particular night.

My pistol is my security to get me to either my preferred shotgun or M1 carbine. All the while hoping the dogs are keeping the 'dirtbag (s)' at bay buying wife/me the time we need.

Never have based my families security needs on where I was living. Burglars love to find that 'special home' in an upper class neighborhood where residents have mindsets "that crime just doesn't happen around here" and secure their homes accordingly.

Last edited by shortwave; September 7, 2013 at 07:31 PM.
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Old September 7, 2013, 01:23 PM   #58
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I'm walking down this same road myself - have been looking into home defense shotguns for over a year now narrowing down my choices to a select few.

I've had a Winchester 1400 since the early 90's and it serves very well for trap and in the field but I want something shorter with actual sights for home defense with buck and slugs. I've been looking real hard at the 930 SPX straight stocked model - have seen and held several at various gunshops - but have held back from purchasing each time because of things I have heard about them on the forums I frequent. Most reviews have been mixed at best so I have held back and continued to save my pennies.

Enough time has passed now for me to have saved enough to have many more choices than before. Of course not being able to find and purchase pistol ammo has had the side effect of allowing my gun fund to increase much more quickly than before! I'm currently researching the Benelli M2 Comfortech, the M4 (can you say sticker shock!), and the FN SLP. I've actually found a local range about an hour away that has the SLP available as a range rental and plan on going there this weekend to run a few boxes of 00 buck thru it to see how it fits and the controls work for me.

Yes, I have considered the 590 and the 870 Police model but I held one (870P) recently that was brand new production and it did not seem nearly as well put together as the older ones I used to shoot in the 90's. If I could find a nice 10 or 20 year old 870P locally I would be inclined to pick it up but have not seen any on the market.

Been some good observations in this thread but in the end you need to find what works best for you. My suggestion would be to find some different models of shotguns to try at the range before you plunk down your hard earned cash. Might be friends or family that can let you try theirs out. Many ranges let you rent firearms and that rental is much cheaper than owning something that doesn't work for you.
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Old September 7, 2013, 08:06 PM   #59
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My input....

Im not; "Mr Room-Broom" but I've done a bit of research on the topic.
In short, Id look at the Remington 887 pump(tactical) or the basic 870 Express 12ga. The Mossberg 12ga 500 or 590. The new Ithaca Defender model(wood or synthetic) with the 8rd magazine. The Penn Arms Street-Sweeper(which has a new company name Im not 100% sure of). The Stoger O/U or side x side 12ga defense shotgun.
Many shotgun/armed professionals like the 887 Nitro's robust design & well engineered protective coating. The Remington 870 & Mossberg 500 lend themselves well to after market work & custom parts(stocks slings sights etc).
Sworn LE officer & tactics instructor; Massad Ayoob suggests the pistol grip stock type 12ga shotguns for "wounded" or "one handed" shooting methods which is a smart move for a home defense or protective service shotgun.
The Ithaca Defender line is well made & has a long history of police/military service.
Wilson Combat is well known for after market 12ga services & many shotgun owners get the weapon treated with Robar NP3+, Black-T, Metalife SS C, DuraCoat. White-lights like Surefire or EO-Tech are a good add-on to prevent mishaps.
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PS; Id suggest taking a defense shotgun class if possible or watching a few training videos. See: www.gunvideo.com www.deltapress.com www.paladin-press.com .
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Old September 14, 2013, 01:16 PM   #60
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I've actually found a local range about an hour away that has the SLP available as a range rental and plan on going there this weekend to run a few boxes of 00 buck thru it to see how it fits and the controls work for me.
I've had an SLP for 3 years and it just runs. The weak point in the design is the gas pistons. There's a spring in the piston that can break after 10K+ rounds. What happens is the gun will only cycle heavy loads if the spring breaks. It can be easily replaced, but the best answer is to send the pistons to SRM Performance in Meridian, ID and have them modify the pistons.

They will remove the springs and install a custom part that they make. With the SRM modified pistons, I run the "heavy" piston for loads from 1-1/8 oz birdshot through buckshot and slugs.

SRM can also install their SureCycle recoil system and do a performance / reliability tune-up - highly recommended. The SureCycle system will reduce recoil by about 10%, making an already soft shooting shotgun even easier to shoot. The reliability tune-up includes lapping the bolt and receiver, replacing the magazine spring and follower, trigger work and a few other tweaks. A lot of the 3-gun shooters send their shotguns to SRM.

The performance difference is subtle but can be noticed in handling - easier because there is less recoil; and the gun will put 6 hulls in the air before the first one hits the ground. Previous to the tune-up and SureCycle system, it would put 5 hulls in the air before the first one hit the ground.

Last edited by buckhorn_cortez; September 14, 2013 at 01:24 PM.
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Old September 15, 2013, 07:56 AM   #61
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Here is my reply

I have this set up in my bedroom. Here in Canada we are not allowed to store any firearm in a loaded condition. This is a 870 wingmaster with an NEA short barrel. The action is buttery smooth and reliable, more than I can say for a 870 Tac Express model I had.

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Old September 15, 2013, 10:45 AM   #62
Rikakiah
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Re: Best Home Defense Shotty?

Quote:
Originally Posted by mississaugagunnut View Post
Here in Canada we are not allowed to store any firearm in a loaded condition.
That sucks. I'd think that would pretty much negate the usefulness of a standard shotgun for home defense. I'd much rather rely on something with a detachable magazine feed (semi-auto handgun). Then it's only an extra second or so to fully load instead of having to fiddle a handful of shells into the tube, under stress.
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Old September 15, 2013, 11:02 AM   #63
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Our Canadian firearms laws are strictly focused on legitimate gun owners and do little to stop the illegal possession and use of firearms.
We are not legally allowed to own a firearm strictly for the purpose of self defense. Hence, our storage laws make it very difficult to use a gun, that is legally stored, for such a purpose.
In Canada, all pistols and some scary black rifles are restricted. As such they must me stored in a "safe", unloaded. If not stored in a "safe", then they must be trigger locked and stored in a lockable container, unloaded.
The only manner in which a pistol could be stored as a home defense firearm would be to place it in one of those small quick access gun safes, with a loaded magazine beside it.
I felt that the shotgun would suit my purposes better.
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Old September 15, 2013, 11:58 AM   #64
Rikakiah
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Dang. That's worse than I could've imagined. If I ever turn to a life of crime, I know what country I'm moving to... :-(
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Old September 15, 2013, 01:03 PM   #65
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What the RCMP does not know, will not hurt you.
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Old September 15, 2013, 04:32 PM   #66
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Re: Best Home Defense Shotty?

Semi auto shotgun for $500? Mossberg 930 Home Security. Might have to tweak it a bit for it to run right.

Oh and lets not call them shotties. K? Thanks!
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Old September 15, 2013, 04:55 PM   #67
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Best Home Defense Shotty?

Weatherby SA-08 TR.
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Old September 15, 2013, 05:16 PM   #68
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The only semi-auto I'd trust would be a Benelli M4 and certainly nothing under $500.

Some have mentioned the Saiga is an option. I have a highly modified short-barreled one with a 12 inch barrel, but it's a range-toy. I hate the factory set up and it needs some $$$ to turn it into a fighting shotgun, but that's just my opinion.

You can get a quality Mossberg (I prefer the 590A1) or Remington 870 for under $600 NIB or shot around and get a used one for under $500. Either or, you're never going to wear them out.
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Old September 15, 2013, 06:20 PM   #69
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Quote:
Some have mentioned the Saiga is an option. I have a highly modified short-barreled one with a 12 inch barrel, but it's a range-toy. I hate the factory set up and it needs some $$$ to turn it into a fighting shotgun, but that's just my opinion.
I discovered the Vepr-12 Molot. It seems to basically be what everyone wants to mod their Saiga into. The gun the Saiga should've been before it gets converted and "sporterized" losing some of the most desirable features such as the pistol grip and folding stock capability.
The VEPR look sweet, apparently are very reliable, but expect to pay around $1500 for one.
http://www.molot.biz/product-e/molot205.php
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Old September 15, 2013, 06:47 PM   #70
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I discovered the Vepr-12 Molot. It seems to basically be what everyone wants to mod their Saiga into. The gun the Saiga should've been before it gets converted and "sporterized" losing some of the most desirable features such as the pistol grip and folding stock capability.
That's pretty cool and seems to be what everyone typically drops $400 to turn their Saiga into. I've always been surprised that nobody has started mass-producing a "tactical" version of it by importing a stripped one and adding all that stuff to it from the begining to bring the price down.

But I just still can't get passed the goofy looking long barrel of the standard one. That gun is made to be an SBS.
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Old September 16, 2013, 08:31 AM   #71
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I was looking at the Kel-Tec KSG for a home defense shotgun, but the price is still above a Grand from most areas.

I would like to have a 12ga semi-auto shotgun for under $500, but I have no experience with them so I don't know what's most reliable. In fact the only shotgun I have experience with is the 870 Remy. I'd like to have the shortest legally available but with a shoulder stock, with the highest mag capacity, and a red-dot sight and iron sights for back up. Any suggestions?
You might want to do more research on the KSG if that is really what you want. Seems like a neat idea, but not so convinced about it's execution. Here's a review you might take a look at:

http://www.thebangswitch.com/trying-...e-kel-tec-ksg/

My Beretta 1201FP has been flawless as my choice for a HD shotgun over the last 20 years. Of course, I bought it a long time ago, but it was under $700.00. Maybe look for a good used semi-auto shotgun with a proven record of being reliable. This has everything I wanted in a HD shotgun.

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Old September 22, 2013, 09:30 PM   #72
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Cz 712 utility - $499.99
Tristar viper g2 $449.99
Mossberg sa-20 $499.99
Tristar raptor $399.99
Howa escort $499.99
Sarsa sp $599.99
Tristar raptor A-tac $419.99
Escort Home defense tactical shotgun $399.99
Bakial Mp 153 $489.99

The remington 870 isn't as great as everyone remembers it to be. New ones are prone to problems from the factory. All those are semi's for around $500. Sure, you may need to use them a bit to find out what they like to feed, but you should have no problems with home defense loads. These prices were all pulled off gander mountain's website. You may be able to find some cheaper.

FWIW, I would rather a semi shotgun that fte's a light load over a pump that turns itself into a club with one. Much easier to slap a charging handle than it is to pound the buttstock of a pump on the ground...
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Old September 23, 2013, 06:58 AM   #73
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I have a very reliable KSG and it has taken the place of my Rem. 870 for HD. Some early KSG's, including mine' had feeding prblems but Keltec identified the problem and corrected it. The KSG design is nothing short of revolutinary in the HD shotgun world and IMO will be tweaked and inproved upon. 15rds of #4 buck is awesome firepower in a HD shotgun and in today's world of home invasions it is comforing to have that many rds for defense without a reload. Keltec now needs to make the KSG in 20ga for lower recoil. The little gun does kick but a brake and a limbsaver slip on but pad tames it nicely.
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Old September 24, 2013, 01:45 AM   #74
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The Best HD shotgun?

I was going to answer that ost below with forget the Semi Auto and go with a Pump, but the thread was going so good I had to let it run...
Back to my choice, a Pump is mde for some very private reasons of fit function and general reliability.
In any scenario where you might be called to use a Shotgun it'll be a total panic moment, one where you need not be worrying about the safety button, or how to charge the semi=auto action (did you pick up a shell?) and your focus will beupon avoiding being shot or stabbed!
Here, is where the Pumpgun comes best into play! All worries except the safety button placement and condition, will be tken care of by that one wrack of the pumphandle! Now providing the gun was loaded, you are ready to defend your life! a simple mechanical tool that dosen't rely on automatic anythings!
I view the revolver much in the same sense, because you can see and depend upon what mechanical function is going on!
Maybe that was why the allure of the old Colt Single Action hung on for so long? It was totally mechanical and controlable t possibly the WORST moment in your life!
The one instance where the "BEE'S" were buzzing by me and I HAD to shoot, I was sure glad I had a lever action rifle in my hands and that when I pointed for the middle, that;s where it shot! No I didn;t stick around to survey the area, I ranbecause there were 3 others and the one down occupird them so's I could get away, No, Ido not know the outcome. I wish it wou;dn't have happened!
Had it been a Shotgun, I am sure of that outcome but the way it shook down I dunno?
What I am trying to say is "IF" you need it, rely upon something manual that Y O U cycle, feed and pull off! MOST OF ALL PRAY THAT YO[U] WON'T HAVE TO!
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Old September 24, 2013, 06:43 AM   #75
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I just want to point out that semi's and pumps have the same safeties... And the chance of short-stroking and misfeeding/jamming/stovepiping a pump in panic mode is much higher than pulling back 4" on the slide of a semi.

With that being said, I've had the most jams due to a poorly modified shell lifter and binding in the feed tube on a pump (neither of those problems had anything to do with the action really) than any other issue.
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