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Old August 30, 2013, 03:36 PM   #1
tahunua001
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Played with a PPQ and P07 yesterday...

...was not impressed in the least. I have no idea what is so appealing about these two pistols but for years I have heard these two makers(Walther and CZ) and models in particular that are held up as the pinnacle of the DASA and Striker worlds and I I didn't like either of them.

the CZ had the grittiest, longest trigger pull(even in single action) that I had ever felt and the grip texture was like grabbing onto 40 grit sand paper. I don't have great big ole bear paws but I do have fairly large hands and the grips were tiny, they are even smaller than the SR9 and without changeable backstraps I could never hold this gun comfortably.

the walther had much better grip texture but it also had a very long trigger pull for a striker gun and it seemed almost like a 2 stage trigger on a rifle... very long light travel that eventually came to a crisper break point but it had a long return before reset as well. all in all, I was not impressed by these two guns at all.


on a separate note. I also played with an Arcus 98DAC. very small, compact and this particular model had great fit+finish. either they have really refined their manufacture process or this is a very striking example of the 98DAC. the trigger, admittedly gritty and heavy(for DA) had a decent DA and SA pull length. if I could have gotten it for the same price they were going for 2 years ago I would have jumped on it in a heartbeat but for $350 bucks it's just not worth it to me... that's like all the guys selling hi points for $250 or chinese SKS for $450 right now... just not going to happen for that price.
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Old August 30, 2013, 03:39 PM   #2
TunnelRat
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Quote:
for years I have heard these two makers(Walther and CZ) and models in particular that are held up as the pinnacle of the DASA
Whoever told you the CZ P07 is the pinnacle of DA/SA had a heck of a sense of humor.... I've never heard that said.

Quote:
but it had a long return before reset as well
The PPQ? What?

I can't tell if you're serious or this is a great example of trolling.
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Old August 30, 2013, 04:03 PM   #3
allaroundhunter
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Played with a PPQ and P07 yesterday...

You sure you were handling a PPQ and not a PPX or something?

As to the CZ... I have never heard of that model being mentioned as great in any category.
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Old August 30, 2013, 04:40 PM   #4
Ace_Breaker
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When you actually fire a PPQ report back. The trigger and short reset are outstanding.
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Old August 30, 2013, 05:13 PM   #5
eviltravis
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I own many striker fired pistols, including the Walther PPQ, and I can tell you that the 1/10th" reset that Walther advertises is no joke. It works, and it works well. I consider the PPQ and P99 triggers to be the best in the striker fired catagory.

ET
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Old August 30, 2013, 05:53 PM   #6
balance
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Quote:
the walther had much better grip texture but it also had a very long trigger pull for a striker gun and it seemed almost like a 2 stage trigger on a rifle... very long light travel that eventually came to a crisper break point but it had a long return before reset as well. all in all, I was not impressed by these two guns at all.
I'm curious to know what pistols you currently shoot that have a shorter reset than a PPQ. There are few that do, and almost all are steel framed pistols, such as a 1911, or a 3rd gen S&W semi-automatic. Even then, the length of reset is similar.

I'm also curious to know which polymer pistols you have shot that have a noticeably shorter length of trigger pull than the PPQ.
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Old August 30, 2013, 05:58 PM   #7
TunnelRat
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Quote:
There are few that do, and almost all are steel framed pistols, such as a 1911, or a 3rd gen S&W semi-automatic.
The reset on a 3rd gen S&W surprises me every time.
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Old August 30, 2013, 06:00 PM   #8
tahunua001
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interesting... LGS must have gotten a seriously deficient model in.
Quote:
The PPQ? What?

I can't tell if you're serious or this is a great example of trolling.
1. I'm serious
2. I don't troll
3. troll crying is a crime in these here parts.

Quote:
You sure you were handling a PPQ and not a PPX or something?
dead certain, PPQ right on the slide.

Quote:
When you actually fire a PPQ report back. The trigger and short reset are outstanding.
I don't need to fire to test the reset, all can be done while dry firing by simply retracting the slide enough to place back in battery and then let the trigger out until it clicks... very long reset.
Quote:
I'm curious to know what pistols you currently shoot that have a shorter reset than a PPQ
the answer? ALL OF THEM. every XDM I've ever owned, my SR9C and my 22/45 all have very short resets compared to the PPQ.
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Old August 30, 2013, 06:03 PM   #9
balance
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You are welcome to your opinion, but many people have, and will, disagree with your conclusions.

Everyone who has shot my PPQ has praised the trigger, as well as the rest of the pistol.
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Old August 30, 2013, 06:10 PM   #10
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The short reset on the PPQ is one of its strongest selling points. IIRC the resets travel is 2.5 mm or .1". So maybe we are talking about a defective gun.

The PPQ has a trigger travel of approximately 9 mm (0.4 in) with a relatively short trigger reset of 2.5 mm (0.1 in) and a trigger pull of approximately 25 N (5.6 lbf). Unlike many other trigger systems, preset internal strikers have a let-off point and trigger pull that remains unchanged from the first shot to the last and requires no decocker. It should however be noted that the striker of the PPQ variant does not protrude from the back of the slide, as the firearm is in a constant cocked state.

Many people report it having a 2 stage feel right with a lot of pre-travel with no or little resistance until you hit the 2nd stage where there is more resistence and then the break point. This is how it feels to me but I a pulling right through the pre-travel until it breaks.

As for the reset in my hands it was really short. First pull with the 2 stage feel and then you release it .1" and it clicks pull again it goes bang. I have only shot one a for limited rounds but that was my experience. I have handled others and the triggers felt the same to me. YMMV
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Last edited by WVsig; August 30, 2013 at 06:26 PM.
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Old August 30, 2013, 06:12 PM   #11
TunnelRat
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Your experience doesn't seem to match that of myself and these other posters. Interesting.

Idk what to say. I'm not the biggest fan of striker fired guns, but the PPQs I've owned have had pretty nice triggers. Actually had a few unintended double taps at first.
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Old August 30, 2013, 06:31 PM   #12
WVsig
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I agree 100% about the P07 it has a horrible trigger right out the the box even worse than the 75B which is not great. Most CZs are rough around the edges when it comes to the trigger right out of the box. After a few 1000 rounds they seem to really slick up. They can be polished to near perfection if you don't mind a little camming.
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Old August 30, 2013, 06:32 PM   #13
allaroundhunter
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Played with a PPQ and P07 yesterday...

I'm guessing the gun you tried slipped through QC.
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Old August 30, 2013, 06:54 PM   #14
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XDM or PPQ

Ok, you "love them to death" I prefer the PPQ's trigger.
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Old August 30, 2013, 08:14 PM   #15
Worc
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Maybe you can post a short video of that long reset PPQ. It's short rest is one of it's many assets that's praised by pretty much anyone who handles one. There's not a gun model of any kind that has never had a single example with some kind of issue. This could very well be the case here.

Like TunnelRat, I'm not a huge striker fan. One of the few that I do like is the PPQ and even own one myself.

It does have a fairly light break at right around five pounds. It breaks very clean with out creep. It's as good as it gets in terms of reset distance. They don't have the shortest, smoothest, or lightest take up. Not bad by any means, but not the best. The only other striker guns trigger (out of the box) that is equal to the PPQ would be the Steyr __-A1's. They don't have quite as short reset as the PPQ. It does have a shorter, lighter, and smoother take up. It also breaks very clean with no creep and has a lighter break. The M9-A1 or L9-A1 would be one of the other very few striker fired guns that I would own.

Last edited by Worc; August 30, 2013 at 08:25 PM.
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Old August 30, 2013, 09:52 PM   #16
tahunua001
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man PP99, you sure know how to research... talk about a blast from the past.

I can't post a short video, the gun's in the store and I do not own a video camera. please don't get me wrong, the trigger was smooth and light, it just seemed like it went on forever in booth directions. one thing I didn't think much of at the time but after reset it seemed to have a lot of retravel(sorry, been a while and I've forgotted the term) but perhaps, if that was a defect that may be causing the long reset which apparently is not normal?
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Old August 30, 2013, 10:41 PM   #17
Worc
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You don't have video on your phone?

Once the trigger is reset, there is no take up. We'll, at least if you do it half way correctly. If you let it go way past the reset and all the way forward there will be take up.
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Old August 30, 2013, 11:03 PM   #18
tahunua001
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nope, I'm too cheap for a phone with a video camera.

the way I understand a reset is you let the trigger out until it clicks... that click marks the reset... it's that way on every semi auto gun I've ever shot rifle or pistol. with the PPQ well over half the total travel was from the reset point to break point.
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Old August 31, 2013, 01:09 AM   #19
chris in va
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I'm a big fan of CZ and the P07 doesn't float my boat either. Feels cheesy compared to the metal versions. That being said all my CZ's have rough trigger pulls from the factory. They have all needed tweaking.
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Old August 31, 2013, 06:16 AM   #20
TxFlyFish
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PPQ are overrated, slap on trigger job forget everything else.
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Old August 31, 2013, 06:53 AM   #21
manta49
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Whoever told you the CZ P07 is the pinnacle of DA/SA had a heck of a sense of humor...
True I have never seen a post saying that about the CZ PO7. You will see plenty saying that the CZ 75 is one for the best high cap steel pistols I would agree with that. As for the trigger pulls these pistols are service pistols and were never designed to have triggers as good as you would get on a target pistol. The triggers are fine for the use that the pistols were designed for.
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Old August 31, 2013, 07:06 AM   #22
balance
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Quote:
PPQ are overrated, slap on trigger job forget everything else.
What is "everything else"?

For what it's worth, they didn't just slap on a trigger job. To make the PPQ, all they did was take a P99 AS and take the DA trigger pull out of the design, and then update the grip a bit.

For about 15 years, the P99 AS was, IMO, the most underrated polymer pistol out there. Before the P99 was released, all polymer pistols felt like 2X4s in the hand, and their triggers were nothing to brag about. The P99 was the first polymer pistol available with replaceable backstraps, and it is one of the only polymer pistols available that I have never heard anyone ever wanting to get a trigger job done to it.

The PPQ has some of the best ergonomics in polymer pistols.

The PPQ has one of the best triggers avilable, from the factory, on a polymer pistol.

The PPQ design is one of the most mechanically accurate polymer defensive pistol designs.

The PPQ design is durable and reliable.

It costs around $500.


What is "everything else", and how is it "overrated"?
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Old August 31, 2013, 08:00 AM   #23
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No one has ever described the PPQ like that. I own ALOT of pistols from HK to Glock. The PPQ is unquestionably the best striker fire pistol trigger you can get. Even my modded Glock triggers are not as good as a factory stock PPQ.. By design it has to be better. The PPQ is the only fully staged striker fire made.
Its your opinion, but perhaps you need to reevaluate the PPQ's trigger.

As far as the PPQ's accuracy???,,....well
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Old August 31, 2013, 08:03 AM   #24
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I have two CZ's. A 75B, 75D PCR, and the excellent Kadet Kit .22lr conversion. The B has a very good trigger, the D has an excellent trigger, that is lighter and crisper than the B. Both are totally stock.

I have handled, and dry fired a few P-07's. They all had excellent triggers. The Omega trigger is better out of the box than the stock B trigger, but the B trigger breaks in nicely, and also can be improved pretty easily.
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Old August 31, 2013, 10:23 AM   #25
TxFlyFish
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I all honesty a plain glock,mp, xdm could squeeze out similar accuracy. There are many pistols capable of good mechanical accuracy...1 inch difference at 50yd difference doesn't really matter. You could change blackstrap and have better recoil management
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